Other than population problems in Cyrodiil I don't believe the game has a lack of population issue. Free to play is probably not going to help PvP. Overland going into delves I still see more with other players in them than ones that are empty. Trying to kill critters for trophies to get an achievement it is rare I don't see other players.

Biggest concern with saving across platforms would be items that can be sold. Farming materials in one platform then putting them up for sale in another could cause all kinds of serious problems to the economies for a long time. There would always be an unfair advantage to trading for players that have access to all three platforms.

The cost is close enough to F2P that anyone interested can afford, but not truly free as to bring out the glaring trolls, botters, exploiters and other throw away account types.

F2P would destroy the need for ESO+ for a lot of people. When you see the polls of why people have it, number one reason is the craft bag. If ESO became f2p, people could make endless accounts and never worry about buying bag or bank space because you could just make another account. Would also devalue a lot of items as you know there would be people using bots to do writs to stock up on upgrade materials over many accounts.

nafensoriel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Things that need to be adressed first:
A. Performance issues - in Cyrodiil and with guild history, the servers have struggled to handle the players we already have. Not to mention the issues PC/EU had earlier in the year - ZOS seriously has to plan ahead for an influx of population.
B. PC/Console cross-save and/or crossplay has to address the issue of add-ons. Right now, console providers don't allow add-ons, so how will that impact cross-saved accounts? Especially once the PC and Console economies start interacting?

Addressing B...
You cant have them interact. You'd have to limit any items allowed to transfer as player bound exclusively and purge everything else(including currency). Since platform migration isnt exactly something you do every day it would be an acceptable trade-off.

Allowing any form of tradeable goods transfer would destroy consoles.


@ op
F2P would be a very bad idea for the content drop model of ESO. B2P is already so stupidly cheap changing the system at this point would invite financial risk for no reward.

Addressing B, none of that is true, whatsoever.

Addons in ESO are exclusively User Interface modifications. You cannot create items using addons. You cannot create currency using addons. You cannot modify the values of items using addons.

You can automate some functions, which means, yes, PC players can knock out all seven writs on a character in under 120 seconds. But, that's still gated by the same once per day limit as you have on consoles. It's not like we can just magic up a million gold on a whim.

starkerealm wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Things that need to be adressed first:
A. Performance issues - in Cyrodiil and with guild history, the servers have struggled to handle the players we already have. Not to mention the issues PC/EU had earlier in the year - ZOS seriously has to plan ahead for an influx of population.
B. PC/Console cross-save and/or crossplay has to address the issue of add-ons. Right now, console providers don't allow add-ons, so how will that impact cross-saved accounts? Especially once the PC and Console economies start interacting?

Addressing B...
You cant have them interact. You'd have to limit any items allowed to transfer as player bound exclusively and purge everything else(including currency). Since platform migration isnt exactly something you do every day it would be an acceptable trade-off.

Allowing any form of tradeable goods transfer would destroy consoles.


@ op
F2P would be a very bad idea for the content drop model of ESO. B2P is already so stupidly cheap changing the system at this point would invite financial risk for no reward.

Addressing B, none of that is true, whatsoever.

Addons in ESO are exclusively User Interface modifications. You cannot create items using addons. You cannot create currency using addons. You cannot modify the values of items using addons.

You can automate some functions, which means, yes, PC players can knock out all seven writs on a character in under 120 seconds. But, that's still gated by the same once per day limit as you have on consoles. It's not like we can just magic up a million gold on a whim.

When I brought up PC and Console economies interacting, I was mostly thinking about trade and prices. Due to a variety of reasons including add-ons that assist with pricing and guild management, PC prices on items tend to be much cheaper than on Console. This is fine, as long as the economies are separate. Allowing players to in effect transfer goods from one platform to another via their inventory and crafting bag could get rather interesting, since the value of those items on the open market is not the same.

Its not an insurmountable problem and eventually the market(s) would reach equilibrium again. Still, I do think its something that has to be addressed before we get any sort of cross-save or cross-play.

I'd love cross-play between all platforms, no doubt, but I never want to see this game go F2P in any way. Guild Wars 2 began to lose my interest once the base game went F2P, I don't want that happening to my favorite MMO. Plus, ZOS does regular free trials for the game so I don't see a need to make it F2P, especially since the base game is only $20 and includes Morrowind.

starkerealm wrote: »

Addressing B, none of that is true, whatsoever.

Addons in ESO are exclusively User Interface modifications. You cannot create items using addons. You cannot create currency using addons. You cannot modify the values of items using addons.

You can automate some functions, which means, yes, PC players can knock out all seven writs on a character in under 120 seconds. But, that's still gated by the same once per day limit as you have on consoles. It's not like we can just magic up a million gold on a whim.

You forgot that PC has considerably more bots.

Even if prices see parity between console and PC the PC database will always have more goods per player. A sudden drop of that size on any economy would be ruinous.

If you are entirely focused on price then you do not understand video game economics. Volume often has far more to do with inflation per year than the actual demand price. Faucet/sink ratios are important and real.

Heck the only reason you don't see mindbogglingly screwed up economics in ESO is due to the guild story system and the truth that most of the games mined resources are sitting in players' banks/craft bags and never see a trade guild. It would be absolutely hilariously easy to bomb the console market with a handful of PC imports.

idk wrote: »

Browart wrote: »

f2p is the worst system, many toxic people will come so its not even worth

Very good point.

deviousthevile wrote: »

F2P would destroy the need for ESO+ for a lot of people. When you see the polls of why people have it, number one reason is the craft bag. If ESO became f2p, people could make endless accounts and never worry about buying bag or bank space because you could just make another account. Would also devalue a lot of items as you know there would be people using bots to do writs to stock up on upgrade materials over many accounts.

I am not supporting the idea of F2P which should be obvious from the third post in this thread.

However, what a game would need to do with a F2P/sub model is greatly restrict the F2P players. Limit their ability to chat and limit PvP time and crafting significantly. Block all access to trade directly or enter any trial. Reduce the XP gained to a fraction of what is currently is.

Just look to SWTOR as an example. Granted, even SWTOR supports my comment made in that third post that the quality of players gained from F2P is pretty low. It really comes down to those willing to spend some money on the game are more likely to invest more effort into learning how to play the game decently.

But as others have pointed out, Zos has no reason to even consider F2P and it would clearly be a bad idea if they did.

My wife and her longtime friend gave SWTOR F2P a try. Basically the game was so limited without a sub that they declared the game unplayable and gave up in less than a week of trying to play SWTOR together. I think they couldnt do Group chat without both of them having a Sub was the straw that broke it for them.

I'm sorry, but I do not agree that F2P with greatly restricted access is a good thing for any MMO.

From the games that I have had experience with that started with a buy to play or a Sub to play, going F2P does not seem to be a good thing for them. If anything, it is an indicator that the game has taken a turn for the worse.

So I see alot of responses saying it would cost ZoS money if they made the game F2P. Arguably you could look at other games that a free to play ie warframe, fortnite, destiny 2, smite, league of legends just to name a few do pretty well. With MMO's its not really possible to release a demo so I do like the idea of limiting F2P users but it doesn't need to be as extreme as someone had mentioned. Another thing mention is how this would cost ZoS more money if it went F2P. I don't really see the reasoning behind this if someone would like to argue that I'd love to hear about it. My thoughts on that are as I stated in the post. Increase in population means more chances at someone buying something. Honestly I couldn't care less if the game was F2P like some have mentioned it's only like $10 which is pretty fair. Regarding the craft bag thing I'm talking about base game not every little quirk or gimmick they fee you.

My main thing was the cross save element. To those who said it would ruin economy are half way correct. It would definitely chance the economy in a good way for the casual player but last time I checked (Its been awhile) the price of dreugh wax was around the same as on console vs pc. As for the ad on's they only exist on pc? Don't really see why that would be an issue we are talking about cross saving not to be confused with cross playing.

Lastly yes I know the economy would see dramatic changes on both ends. Personally I think the change would be welcoming at least on the console side. As a player who mainly pvps my source of income is okay with cyro rewards and selling ap when I can find someone who wants something. I know I would have enjoyed not spending so much on materials.

Anyways sorry I even brought it up I don't even play anymore was just curious about some opinions.

Millz wrote: »

So I see alot of responses saying it would cost ZoS money if they made the game F2P. Arguably you could look at other games that a free to play ie warframe, fortnite, destiny 2, smite, league of legends just to name a few do pretty well. With MMO's its not really possible to release a demo so I do like the idea of limiting F2P users but it doesn't need to be as extreme as someone had mentioned. Another thing mention is how this would cost ZoS more money if it went F2P. I don't really see the reasoning behind this if someone would like to argue that I'd love to hear about it. My thoughts on that are as I stated in the post. Increase in population means more chances at someone buying something. Honestly I couldn't care less if the game was F2P like some have mentioned it's only like $10 which is pretty fair. Regarding the craft bag thing I'm talking about base game not every little quirk or gimmick they fee you.

My main thing was the cross save element. To those who said it would ruin economy are half way correct. It would definitely chance the economy in a good way for the casual player but last time I checked (Its been awhile) the price of dreugh wax was around the same as on console vs pc. As for the ad on's they only exist on pc? Don't really see why that would be an issue we are talking about cross saving not to be confused with cross playing.

Lastly yes I know the economy would see dramatic changes on both ends. Personally I think the change would be welcoming at least on the console side. As a player who mainly pvps my source of income is okay with cyro rewards and selling ap when I can find someone who wants something. I know I would have enjoyed not spending so much on materials.

Anyways sorry I even brought it up I don't even play anymore was just curious about some opinions.

As a full time trader in eso the economy would be impacted pretty badly. Allowing gold and items to move between servers would allow people to sell items on one server and the buy items on another. This would result in an advantage for people who have a PS4, a pc, and an xbox. But it would be a disadvantage for people who only have one of the devices. And you know that Sony would object to a person using a pc to log into a PS4 server.

It IS an interesting idea though and fleshed out a bit more with some restrictions it could make a good feature