Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Why not simply cap PVE DPS?
MakeMeUhSamich
✭✭✭✭✭
Then, pretty much any build would be viable in PVE Endgame and open up more welcomed use of utility/support skills amongst DDs.
It also seems this could reduce such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles.
Thoughts?
It also seems this could reduce such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles.
Thoughts?
11
-
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭How would you cap DPS? explain and cap to which value?Edited by Drako_Ei on September 26, 2019 8:15PM12 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭Set a maximum output level per character and/or group.
Not sure what might suffice? 60k? 80k?6 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Set a maximum output level per character and/or group.
Not sure what might suffice? 60k? 80k?
10k. Can’t have bad pug DPS feeling bad about themselves."Get off my lawn!"17 -
Aurie✭✭✭✭✭
✭If ZOS could do that, I would FAR rather that than constant ‘rebalancing’ (aka nerfs).
But can you imagine the outcry from high dps players being capped?14 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It could. But it would feel terrible.
My experience with this was pre-One Tamriel when my level 17 stam sorc hit the artificial miss chance. I was fighting enemies several levels above me, and doing fine! I could have easily kept fighting harder enemies. Except the game instead started forcing me to miss my attacks, so I couldn't progress according to my player skill unless I stopped to grind.
The artificial miss chance was there to get us on the story path and make sure we didnt get in over our heads. It had a good reason and purpose for existing. It was still annoying AF. I knew I could do better if only the game would let me.
Having ESO cap DPS at some arbitrary limit would be like that. There might be a good reason, but it would be annoying AF for anyone at that limit who knows they can do better if the limit wasn't in place.15 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Set a maximum output level per character and/or group.
Not sure what might suffice? 60k? 80k?
If they did that, what would be the point of major/minor courage, crusher, or any buff applied by a healer or tank? What would be the point of having or farming those sets?
I'm afraid that you've set the bar really low with "replace such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles." I find bathing cats more appealing.
9 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭But dps output isn’t constant, it starts off lower, then increases at execute. Also, depending on where you are in your rotation, the outgoing damage can vary significantly from second to second. Also what if there is more than one enemy? Is priority being assigned to one of them if you exceed the cap? What would this do to burst builds in pvp? I am not a fan of this idea.7 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »It could. But it would feel terrible.
My experience with this was pre-One Tamriel when my level 17 stam sorc hit the artificial miss chance. I was fighting enemies several levels above me, and doing fine! I could have easily kept fighting harder enemies. Except the game instead started forcing me to miss my attacks, so I couldn't progress according to my player skill unless I stopped to grind.
The artificial miss chance was there to get us on the story path and make sure we didnt get in over our heads. It had a good reason and purpose for existing. It was still annoying AF. I knew I could do better if only the game would let me.
Having ESO cap DPS at some arbitrary limit would be like that. There might be a good reason, but it would be annoying AF for anyone at that limit who knows they can do better if the limit wasn't in place.
I hear ya. And, I agree that it would feel different, but “terrible” is, of course, subjective.
I imagine it could work similar to penetration in that beyond a certain point, stacking more spell/weapon damage etc. would become a moot point.0 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭IndianaJames7 wrote: »But dps output isn’t constant, it starts off lower, then increases at execute. Also, depending on where you are in your rotation, the outgoing damage can vary significantly from second to second. Also what if there is more than one enemy? Is priority being assigned to one of them if you exceed the cap? What would this do to burst builds in pvp? I am not a fan of this idea.
I’ve no idea about implementing this in PvP. That already seems like the Wild West. I’m thinking strictly PVE.1 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Set a maximum output level per character and/or group.
Not sure what might suffice? 60k? 80k?
If they did that, what would be the point of major/minor courage, crusher, or any buff applied by a healer or tank? What would be the point of having or farming those sets?
I'm afraid that you've set the bar really low with "replace such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles." I find bathing cats more appealing.
Those buffs would still be necessary to reach whatever cap is set in place.1 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Set a maximum output level per character and/or group.
Not sure what might suffice? 60k? 80k?
If they did that, what would be the point of major/minor courage, crusher, or any buff applied by a healer or tank? What would be the point of having or farming those sets?
I'm afraid that you've set the bar really low with "replace such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles." I find bathing cats more appealing.
Those buffs would still be necessary to reach whatever cap is set in place.
I believe that alone would reinforce a much stronger (or more rigid) meta than we have now.
Edit: that's not to say that I wouldn't find it to be an improvement over the current roller coaster.Edited by Agenericname on September 26, 2019 8:33PM0 -
Shawn_PT✭✭✭✭✭
✭Instead of capping individual players' DPS, cap the rate at which enemies can be damaged
Edited by Shawn_PT on September 26, 2019 8:51PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Then, pretty much any build would be viable in PVE Endgame and open up more welcomed use of utility/support skills amongst DDs.
It also seems this could reduce such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles.
Thoughts?
That's basically what they are doing by nerfing damage. They are lowering the ceiling for damage and in effect placing a new cap on it.
I prefer this method because it still enables players to focus entirely on offense if they wish instead of building around some arbitrary cap. The more freedom players are given to build their character as they like the better in my estimation.Edited by Jeremy on September 26, 2019 8:55PM0 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Then, pretty much any build would be viable in PVE Endgame and open up more welcomed use of utility/support skills amongst DDs.
It also seems this could reduce such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles.
Thoughts?
That's basically what they are doing by nerfing damage. They are lowering the ceiling for damage and in effect placing a new cap on it.
I prefer this method because it still enables players to focus entirely on offense if they wish instead of building around some arbitrary cap. The more freedom players are given to build their character as they like the better in my estimation.
I agree that nerfing everyone lowers the ceiling, but it doesn’t solve the 8 StamCros coordinating their ultimates meta.1 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Then what incentive would players have to improve?
Team coordination and completing content quicker and with fewer deaths?2 -
SoLooney✭✭✭✭✭Nope, that's a skill factor
People dont realize hitting high group dps in a raid setting is very difficult. Cap it, and you significantly reduced the skill cap
Again. We do not need to be rewarding casual players. Theres always gonna be groups who work harder and can perform better in a trial setting
No need to dumb things down9 -
vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's like putting a cap on earnings or something. It tells people that if you put extra effort into something, you still won't get the reward from it because you're not allowed to be that good. It just ends up discouraging people from doing better.
The good solution is to up the difficulty.Or just remove AC.Edited by vestahls on September 26, 2019 9:20PM“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
simple as4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Then what incentive would players have to improve?
Team coordination and completing content quicker and with fewer deaths?
The best way to do that currently is with higher DPS. That would be a large part of why progression groups are complaining about the DPS nerfs.
Assuming your group is hitting max DPS, there's nothing left to improve except what? Positioning? Healing? Its not like buffs or debuffs matter once you pass the DPS cap. There's just not that much left to improve on.3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »
Having ESO cap DPS at some arbitrary limit would be like that. There might be a good reason, but it would be annoying AF for anyone at that limit who knows they can do better if the limit wasn't in place.
Exactly: there are players for whom dummy humping, coming up with builds and rotations to maximize damage, etc., is part of their enjoyment in the game, and putting a cap would pretty much kill that. Also, we wouldn't be able to see how far those skillful players can push a class in terms of damage, and that'd be a pity. There are other ways to make dps less important, without affecting individual skills, for example, make it so that mechanics cannot be entirely skipped by virtue of too much damage; I think the two new dungeons are in that frame, because fights contain phases where you are punished if you do damage, and you have to necessarily perform a mechanic in order to proceed. Something like that, but not a cap in damage itself.2 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Then, pretty much any build would be viable in PVE Endgame and open up more welcomed use of utility/support skills amongst DDs.
It also seems this could reduce such frequent and radical buff/nerf cycles.
Thoughts?
Put a cap on pvp dps, health and resistance stacking.
Pve in ESO is a dull and boring.
0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But.... why? Why is someone else's high DPS a problem in PVE? If you are solo, who cares? If you are in a group, don't you want high DPS?
This all comes back to the dead-horse beating party of "I want veteran overland content." You want lower DPS? Then lower your DPS. Nobody is stopping you3 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I cannot believe what some people suggest when the best answer is just around the corner.0 -
MakeMeUhSamich✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »But.... why? Why is someone else's high DPS a problem in PVE? If you are solo, who cares? If you are in a group, don't you want high DPS?
This all comes back to the dead-horse beating party of "I want veteran overland content." You want lower DPS? Then lower your DPS. Nobody is stopping you
One problem is that, currently, how many MagBlades are welcome in Vet Trials? Exactly zero...since there are other classes which out perform them significantly. If a DPS cap were in place (which was attainable by a skilled player on any class) suddenly each class has a consistent seat at the table.4 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »But.... why? Why is someone else's high DPS a problem in PVE? If you are solo, who cares? If you are in a group, don't you want high DPS?
This all comes back to the dead-horse beating party of "I want veteran overland content." You want lower DPS? Then lower your DPS. Nobody is stopping you
To be fair it was a problem big enough that PTS 1 patch notes got past well..anyone.
I can't say. No MMO's has every really done this to my knowledge. I guess depending on what its set at can open up other gear options as if you hit "X" with say Reli, but hit the exact same with a support set, you probably would just go with the support set since the extra damage would hold no value.
It won't happen though. There should be a way to push the limit.Edited by karekiz on September 26, 2019 11:54PM1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Let's cap player/character DPS at 12. (not 12 k - just 12)
Leave the mob DPS as is
THAT should be a challenge
1 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭why even bother with dps at all?
just press "X" and watch your cutscene
maybe you should just try this kind of "games"
there is no l2p or gitgud - just press "X"0 -
DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting concept. I’m not sure how it would roll out for a finished product but that kind of separates PVe and PVP for sure which desperately needs to happen.2
