Do You See the Problem?
IronWooshu
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DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Edited by IronWooshu on September 23, 2019 4:06PM ^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
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Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta.
The problem is, those sets dont have sustain, when playing non CP you have to build for sustain. Your build is a complete glass canon set-up relying on the crutch of CP which has allowed power creep, you need CP. I agree CP allows for build diversity but non CP does too, you just have to be more conservative when making your build.
Eliminating CP will still allow players to play how they want but not being able stack pure damage sets with no sustain outside of being Argonian will lower damage, with lower damage, people will have more time to react in PVP and PVE power creep wouldnt be such a joke.0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
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IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.2 -
Amira✭✭✭I agree with Girl_Number8. Nerflings ruin this game. And always have excuses to back up their poor judgement.6 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
Edited by Girl_Number8 on September 23, 2019 5:42PM2 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
If you dont think CP is a problem.. Why has CP not moved in over a year and we remain at 810? Even Zenimax knows CP is a problem and apparently your guild cant see that? even with all that testing you do? I like CP but you can't balance this game from both CP and Non CP PVP and not expect PVE to get the worst of it.
You don't want balance, its clear.4 -
Amira✭✭✭No. Call it what you want but is still a nerf. I love CP PVP and Non CP PVP. Don't want to see the game dumbed-down anymore.Edited by Amira on September 23, 2019 5:56PM4
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Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
If you dont think CP is a problem.. Why has CP not moved in over a year and we remain at 810? Even Zenimax knows CP is a problem and apparently your guild cant see that? even with all that testing you do? I like CP but you can't balance this game from both CP and Non CP PVP and not expect PVE to get the worst of it.
You don't want balance, its clear.
You don't want to learn, you just want Zos to lower the ceiling yet again for the casual players like you, that is what is clear. And you obviously don't know much about the game from your comments, as well.
For there simply never will be a perfect balance that suits everyone. Though by buffing classes among many other things that need it, the game will be fun again and more on par. Zos needs to tweak things and not hit them with a sledgehammer like you are suggesting by wanting to kill Cp PvP.
Tweaking creates a better game, not mass changes because those results are here right now because of people like you.
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maddiniiLuna✭✭✭✭I like, how you personally attack everybody who is not your opinion, when the whole Idea of a Forum is to get other peoples opinion.
Here's a bit of important information for you: Those skills were not always as strong as they are now. Some of them were so weak, that they were not actually used that much - yet still you managed to do PvP and Veteran Trials and you'll still be able to manage to do so after.
Honestly: 95% of the complaints are by people who one shot everybody with 3 buttons and they be like crying because they lack the skill to kill somebody without those one shot abilities.
The first few weeks you probably going to have some very op builds in Cyrodiil, until they get nerfed and after that it'll be down to skill and intelligence to pull off a great gameplay and i am really looking forward to that.5 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
If you dont think CP is a problem.. Why has CP not moved in over a year and we remain at 810? Even Zenimax knows CP is a problem and apparently your guild cant see that? even with all that testing you do? I like CP but you can't balance this game from both CP and Non CP PVP and not expect PVE to get the worst of it.
You don't want balance, its clear.
You don't want to learn, you just want Zos to lower the ceiling yet again for the casual players like you, that is what is clear. And you obviously don't know much about the game from your comments, as well.
For there simply never will be a perfect balance that suits everyone. Though by buffing classes among many other things that need it, the game will be fun again and more on par. Zos needs to tweak things and not hit them with a sledgehammer like you are suggesting by wanting to kill Cp PvP.
Tweaking creates a better game, not mass changes because those results are here right now because of people like you.
I never said anything about perfect balance but you will get better balance if you have one or the other. I dont think you fully understand this game. CP PVP and Non CP PVP are two completely different animals. Skills that are OP in non CP PVP are not as OP in CP PVP. Therefore you nerf one for Non CP PVP because it's over performing and it becomes weaker in CP PVP because CP mitigates the skill even further. In turn this destroys PVE because all these skills are getting nerfed over PVP players complaining about skills being OP because it kills them.
Both PVP modes counteract each other and in turn destroy PVE.
Instead of sounding like an elitist *** and coming onto the forums stomping around in your oversized clown shoes why dont you offer an alternative how you would better balance this game.
When you say "You will never get true balance" it makes it sound like you are fine with having no balance. Some balance is better than no balance and to achieve that you need to find a happy medium.
Listening to you makes me wonder about all the elistist end game players that play with you just how big of a *** group can you get.
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Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
If you dont think CP is a problem.. Why has CP not moved in over a year and we remain at 810? Even Zenimax knows CP is a problem and apparently your guild cant see that? even with all that testing you do? I like CP but you can't balance this game from both CP and Non CP PVP and not expect PVE to get the worst of it.
You don't want balance, its clear.
You don't want to learn, you just want Zos to lower the ceiling yet again for the casual players like you, that is what is clear. And you obviously don't know much about the game from your comments, as well.
For there simply never will be a perfect balance that suits everyone. Though by buffing classes among many other things that need it, the game will be fun again and more on par. Zos needs to tweak things and not hit them with a sledgehammer like you are suggesting by wanting to kill Cp PvP.
Tweaking creates a better game, not mass changes because those results are here right now because of people like you.
I never said anything about perfect balance but you will get better balance if you have one or the other. I dont think you fully understand this game. CP PVP and Non CP PVP are two completely different animals. Skills that are OP in non CP PVP are not as OP in CP PVP. Therefore you nerf one for Non CP PVP because it's over performing and it becomes weaker in CP PVP because CP mitigates the skill even further. In turn this destroys PVE because all these skills are getting nerfed over PVP players complaining about skills being OP because it kills them.
Both PVP modes counteract each other and in turn destroy PVE.
Instead of sounding like an elitist *** and coming onto the forums stomping around in your oversized clown shoes why dont you offer an alternative how you would better balance this game.
When you say "You will never get true balance" it makes it sound like you are fine with having no balance. Some balance is better than no balance and to achieve that you need to find a happy medium.
Listening to you makes me wonder about all the elistist end game players that play with you just how big of a *** group can you get.
Do I see the problem, yes I do, it is you and Nerfilings like you. You don't care about balance and you certainly don't know PvP by all your remarks throughout this thread. The one thing that stands out clearly is you don't want balance, you want Zos to hold your hand in Cyro and every form of PvP that you're not good at.
I want the game to have more but you want to take away Cp PvP and Cp from Duels when there already is both....All you sound like is another salty Zergling that got rekted and wants to have the game perfectly tailored to your laziness and lack of skill by gutting a chunk of the game.
Balance would be when the classes are on par with each other and not dust collectors because Zos has a favorite few. But then again, what would you know about that or anything in this game when your head is so far up where the sun doesn't shine.
You haven't proved anything about creating balance, just the exact opposite. You only proved you want Zos to not only just nerf Cp PvP but get rid of it completely alltogether for your own personal selfish needs. Without any regard for all the other players that play this game and enjoy both forms of PvP, like myself and many, many others.
Sounds like your name should be IronBooHoo, CxEdited by Girl_Number8 on September 24, 2019 1:21AM5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
This got ugly fast. ^^
Just to chime in: but I don't see why ZoS would need to balance none CP vs CP campaigns. CP has no relevance in none CP modes - so it's completely disconnected. So I don't understand your OP's argument. In other words: any "balance" problems that occur in PvP as a result of CP is due to the CP system itself. So CP and CP alone is the culprit. And that can be fixed by correcting the system (which they are currently doing I believe).
So if you believe there are significant imbalances that occur due to CP being used in PvP (and I'm not saying you're wrong) it would probably be better to simply highlight what those specific "imbalances" are so they can be discussed. That would likely be more productive then simply suggesting the entire system should be scrapped - which is just going to *** off players who enjoy CP PvP.
I'm also not convinced these nerfs to damage are due to CP anyway. A lot of the PvE content on this game is ridiculously easy at the moment due to over-the-top damage even without the use of CP. So I wouldn't say CP in particular is the problem here. It just makes the problem worse. But "power creep" is an issue on this game with or without CP thrown into the mix. So either significant nerfs to players or significant buffs to the content needed to happen and thus far at least it appears the developers have opted for the former approach.
Edited by Jeremy on September 24, 2019 2:11AM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta.
The problem is, those sets dont have sustain, when playing non CP you have to build for sustain. Your build is a complete glass canon set-up relying on the crutch of CP which has allowed power creep, you need CP. I agree CP allows for build diversity but non CP does too, you just have to be more conservative when making your build.
Eliminating CP will still allow players to play how they want but not being able stack pure damage sets with no sustain outside of being Argonian will lower damage, with lower damage, people will have more time to react in PVP and PVE power creep wouldnt be such a joke.
The power creep is PvE related problem. ZoS doesn't like how quick the harder content is being finished. PvP all the players get the same creep so stay on level playing field. PvE gets boring and bland really quick because of the power creep.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭maddiniiLuna wrote: »I like, how you personally attack everybody who is not your opinion, when the whole Idea of a Forum is to get other peoples opinion.
Here's a bit of important information for you: Those skills were not always as strong as they are now. Some of them were so weak, that they were not actually used that much - yet still you managed to do PvP and Veteran Trials and you'll still be able to manage to do so after.
Honestly: 95% of the complaints are by people who one shot everybody with 3 buttons and they be like crying because they lack the skill to kill somebody without those one shot abilities.
The first few weeks you probably going to have some very op builds in Cyrodiil, until they get nerfed and after that it'll be down to skill and intelligence to pull off a great gameplay and i am really looking forward to that.
First of all girl_number_8 doesn't offer opinions and came in a hot mess. She leaves personal attacks and you think I am attacking everyone. No I am getting down to the level of one person.Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »Girl_Number8 wrote: »No it wouldn't, your way off. You want what you selfishly want without a care for the majority of the player-base.
There already is Cp PvP and Non Cp PvP, So that already does allow people to play how they want. Though Cp PvP does allow for some unique builds and a different experience for the player, just as Non Cp PvP allows for a different experience too.
The honest sad joke is Nerfilings like you trying to take away more from game and other players because of your short comings. Other players that I might add have adapted to each change after change from the very start of ESO.
You don't like Cp PvP, simple don't play it....
This is a moot point. All you have is a few catch phrases but you just want the game to suit your personal needs and not the majority of the player base.... Which is just plain selfish.
I want more not less, which is why I am on the PTS giving what feedback I can.
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse. If you honestly think that this team can balance around both CP and Non CP PVP than you are more disillusioned than Zenimax you bitter little troll.
What did I call to get nerfed? Other than proposing a fix on CP which is the problem with the power creep? You lose all credit in everything you said here because your emotion posting rather than using logic.
Sometimes less is more but I can tell you're still young and haven't learned real value yet.
I am on the PTS providing the best feedback I can with other testers and our guild. Whether Zos chooses to listen to our feedback or not, that is their decision but at least I am not crying to take more of the game away like you.
Your words "You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal."
These are nerfs not including your vague calling for nerfs to unamed Cp. So apparently you're the only troll of this thread but you're also a liar too....Point proven.
The only one bitter are Nerfilings like you that don't know how to properly theory craft and lack experience in PvP.
If you dont think CP is a problem.. Why has CP not moved in over a year and we remain at 810? Even Zenimax knows CP is a problem and apparently your guild cant see that? even with all that testing you do? I like CP but you can't balance this game from both CP and Non CP PVP and not expect PVE to get the worst of it.
You don't want balance, its clear.
You don't want to learn, you just want Zos to lower the ceiling yet again for the casual players like you, that is what is clear. And you obviously don't know much about the game from your comments, as well.
For there simply never will be a perfect balance that suits everyone. Though by buffing classes among many other things that need it, the game will be fun again and more on par. Zos needs to tweak things and not hit them with a sledgehammer like you are suggesting by wanting to kill Cp PvP.
Tweaking creates a better game, not mass changes because those results are here right now because of people like you.
I never said anything about perfect balance but you will get better balance if you have one or the other. I dont think you fully understand this game. CP PVP and Non CP PVP are two completely different animals. Skills that are OP in non CP PVP are not as OP in CP PVP. Therefore you nerf one for Non CP PVP because it's over performing and it becomes weaker in CP PVP because CP mitigates the skill even further. In turn this destroys PVE because all these skills are getting nerfed over PVP players complaining about skills being OP because it kills them.
Both PVP modes counteract each other and in turn destroy PVE.
Instead of sounding like an elitist *** and coming onto the forums stomping around in your oversized clown shoes why dont you offer an alternative how you would better balance this game.
When you say "You will never get true balance" it makes it sound like you are fine with having no balance. Some balance is better than no balance and to achieve that you need to find a happy medium.
Listening to you makes me wonder about all the elistist end game players that play with you just how big of a *** group can you get.
Do I see the problem, yes I do, it is you and Nerfilings like you. You don't care about balance and you certainly don't know PvP by all your remarks throughout this thread. The one thing that stands out clearly is you don't want balance, you want Zos to hold your hand in Cyro and every form of PvP that you're not good at.
I want the game to have more but you want to take away Cp PvP and Cp from Duels when there already is both....All you sound like is another salty Zergling that got rekted and wants to have the game perfectly tailored to your laziness and lack of skill by gutting a chunk of the game.
Balance would be when the classes are on par with each other and not dust collectors because Zos has a favorite few. But then again, what would you know about that or anything in this game when your head is so far up where the sun doesn't shine.
You haven't proved anything about creating balance, just the exact opposite. You only proved you want Zos to not only just nerf Cp PvP but get rid of it completely alltogether for your own personal selfish needs. Without any regard for all the other players that play this game and enjoy both forms of PvP, like myself and many, many others.
Sounds like your name should be IronBooHoo, Cx
Why do you make so many assumptions? I dont care what they get rid of Non CP or CP.. balance around one and not both.
It's that simple.
Its funny how mad you get.0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Well then you're on the PTS doing a *** poor job because each patch gets worse and worse.
Your problem is assuming zos are listening....
3 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta.
The problem is, those sets dont have sustain, when playing non CP you have to build for sustain. Your build is a complete glass canon set-up relying on the crutch of CP which has allowed power creep, you need CP. I agree CP allows for build diversity but non CP does too, you just have to be more conservative when making your build.
Eliminating CP will still allow players to play how they want but not being able stack pure damage sets with no sustain outside of being Argonian will lower damage, with lower damage, people will have more time to react in PVP and PVE power creep wouldnt be such a joke.
The power creep is PvE related problem. ZoS doesn't like how quick the harder content is being finished. PvP all the players get the same creep so stay on level playing field. PvE gets boring and bland really quick because of the power creep.
I agree, I have said nothing other than power creep being a PVE problem due to CP, so I offered insight on how to end power creep while keeping CP around but it would require PVP to lose CP enabled play all around.Edited by IronWooshu on September 24, 2019 2:14AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta.
The problem is, those sets dont have sustain, when playing non CP you have to build for sustain. Your build is a complete glass canon set-up relying on the crutch of CP which has allowed power creep, you need CP. I agree CP allows for build diversity but non CP does too, you just have to be more conservative when making your build.
Eliminating CP will still allow players to play how they want but not being able stack pure damage sets with no sustain outside of being Argonian will lower damage, with lower damage, people will have more time to react in PVP and PVE power creep wouldnt be such a joke.
The power creep is PvE related problem. ZoS doesn't like how quick the harder content is being finished. PvP all the players get the same creep so stay on level playing field. PvE gets boring and bland really quick because of the power creep.
I agree, I have said nothing other than power creep being a PVE problem due to CP, so I offered insight on how to end power creep while keeping CP around but it would require PVP to lose CP enabled play all around.
It was a PvP problem too.
The damage was absurd in none CP PvP as well. It's gotten better with the last round of changes - but it could still use some attention. CP is just an aggravating factor in all of this. It's not the sole cause nor is it the single solution.
Ultimately what this boils down to is players just grew accustomed to being able to destroy other players with little effort and it's going to take some time for them to adapt and get used to the changing circumstances. Those of us familiar with PvP systems from other games will have an easier time - because the damage on this game has always been just utterly ridiculous when compared to other games where you did not die so fast.Edited by Jeremy on September 24, 2019 2:26AM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »DOTS are absolutely worthless now, why tho? because they originally buffed dots/bleeds because ZOS made them mitigated against resistances BUT then made them just a little too strong. So they you nerfed them substantially; however they forget that they are still mitigated by CP and resistances which makes them absolutely worthless now.
^This scenario is the typical extreme buff and nerf cycle we constantly see and its getting tiring.
We all know that if the DOTS arent buffed somewhat say 1.75x's up from 1.25 and down from 2.50x's and meet the change in the middle they will look like idiots and have to revert changes AGAIN next patch. When they buff and nerf in extremes and then wait a patch rotation to see how they act when EVERYONE is telling them they are bad now, it is a very bad look. They come across as they have no vision and we are idiots that just play the game and know nothing. If they were to nerf skills/abilities in increments and using each week to fine tune them to find the sweet spot before the patch goes live they would add so much credibility to showing us they are capable to work with us in finding a solution. This also gets the problem out of the way to focus on other problems next patch rather than revisiting the same *** 3 patches in a row and NOTHING else gets done.
Homogenization of abilities is bad. Classes should have strengths and weaknesses from one another, this makes classes interesting and brings flavor to raids and group set ups.
Nerfing of abilities and skills does NOT help with power creep, what would help with power creep is removing all CP nodes that increase damage and making them more generic with flavor like having a percent decrease of the cost of stamina or magicka weapon abilities and the cost for each type of class abilities (Stamina or Magicka). Keep the defensive CP nodes and Thief is fine, as you release new content allow monsters to grow strong and as our character levels CP we get stronger defensively.
Now PVPers are saying well in CP PVP if we dont have increased damage and people have increased defenses we wont be able to kill anybody and this is here is the kicker on how you balance both PVP and PVE.. You remove CP from all PVP including duels and only allow it to effect PVE. This way your CP for PVE isnt adding to power creep damage wise and you can balance PVP by only having to adjust abilities/skills/items sets for one mode of PVP that is universal.
The problem here is the way things are being done. Yet I feel they think we are the problem and while we can't take no blame, yes we deserve some. Us as players and ZOS as the company should find a middle ground.
Bolded the part that goes against "Play how you want". I have a magden with Ysgmiirs (however ya spell that), Iceheart and Icy Conjurer. I wanted him to be an Ice based DPS in PvP. I tried him in no CP. He has little to no sustain, less than 23k HP, abysmal stam of about 9k. Simply put it's unplayable in that setting. Now in CP? He's much better, but still not a dominating force. I'm ok with that. But if they get rid of CP's and don't figure out a way to eliminate that stupid battle spirit crutch? It's over for a good many players trying to do something different and not Meta.
The problem is, those sets dont have sustain, when playing non CP you have to build for sustain. Your build is a complete glass canon set-up relying on the crutch of CP which has allowed power creep, you need CP. I agree CP allows for build diversity but non CP does too, you just have to be more conservative when making your build.
Eliminating CP will still allow players to play how they want but not being able stack pure damage sets with no sustain outside of being Argonian will lower damage, with lower damage, people will have more time to react in PVP and PVE power creep wouldnt be such a joke.
The power creep is PvE related problem. ZoS doesn't like how quick the harder content is being finished. PvP all the players get the same creep so stay on level playing field. PvE gets boring and bland really quick because of the power creep.
I agree, I have said nothing other than power creep being a PVE problem due to CP, so I offered insight on how to end power creep while keeping CP around but it would require PVP to lose CP enabled play all around.
Problem is PvP'rs earned their CP just like PvE'rs did. It would be a slap in the face to take it away. If CP is the problem then fix CP. Adjust the points there, maybe lower caps? Don't just take it away from part of the player base and pretend that somehow fixes something.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭The ship to isolate either modes (pve, pvp) sailed long, long ago. The CP system built around the core endgame and to remove it at this point would just needlessly antagonize one group or another.
It's also not productive to blame one side or another, I suspect ZOS is trying for a broad correction to both modes as the power is kind of insane. I don't go into CP pvp simply because I've only been back a few months and was at 200 odd cp when I left. Feeling the combination of skilled players with all that extra go juice just frustrates me, but I can see how it would be challenging and fun for those at the cap.
One option I've seen done elsewhere is to balance the bgs in some manner while leaving Cyrodiil alone. WvWvW stuff has always been more about clever tactics and positioning than straight up fire power, and from what I've read as the meta changes everyone adapts. Zos could mix up the meta every six months or so, but other than some qol updates and bug fixes could leave sandbox pvp largely to its own devices. Battlegrounds could be finely tuned for the player experience and they could make use of battle spirit buff to tone down or up skills and abilities so that they remain independent.
Though I suspect that the obvious answer is that PvP will never be truly balanced or even somewhat balanced without gutting a lot of systems and I think it's safe to say no one wants that. So I say let the whole thing become thunderdome and just enjoy the carnage and cheese. On a personal note, I did prefer early in the pvp cycle when the time to kill was longer."It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not asking to remove the CP system. I am asking for it to be fixed and disabled when in PVP.0 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Actually. This is a lot more simpler than you think. Consider this model using a standardized mechanic system,
[Standardized Combat Mechanic] + [Class Skill Modifier] = [Class Base Skill/Combat Mechanic]
Now, in the Cp PvP environment these players get to add CP tree bonuses to the [Class Base Skill/Combat Mechanic]; Meanwhile, the non-Cp PVP simply doesn't.
Edited: Expanding on this the model continues,
( [Class Base Skill/Combat Mechanic] + [Item Set Bonus] ) + (or *) [Champion Point Tree Bonus] = [Final Class Skill/Combat Mechanic]
Consequently, Cp PvP modified [Class Base Skill/Combat Mechanic] is identical to PVE except Battle Spirit does a 50% reduction on heals and damage of the [Final Class Skill/Combat Mechanic]
So, in context to balancing for Cp PVP and PVE, its simpler to balance. Obtaining a semblance of balance comes not just from the combat mechanic changes but also how CP influence the skill performance, including additive variances from gear sets. Those factor in, but you could audit only the combat mechanic or skill but you'd be doing an incomplete audit for balance.Edited by Sahidom on September 25, 2019 4:57AM1 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »I'm not asking to remove the CP system. I am asking for it to be fixed and disabled when in PVP.
You already have modes of play where CP is disabled in pvp. What you on about?1 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭grannas211 wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »I'm not asking to remove the CP system. I am asking for it to be fixed and disabled when in PVP.
You already have modes of play where CP is disabled in pvp. What you on about?
Did you even read any of the thread or just scroll down? I am talking about either eliminating non CP PVP or disabling CP for PVP to balance around one aspect of the game. Since CP works in PVE and PVE revolves around it then we should focus on just not catering to No-CP PVP because it's impossible for anyone to balance both instances of PVP while trying not to completely kill PVE because of this.0
https://youtu.be/YUqXWWb_ifA
