ZOS, the playerbase has made it clear that flat dps nerfs aren't acceptable, so stop it

aetherial_heavenn · September 2019

p00tx wrote: »

We manage to attain nearly the same dps and complete the same content on console as your top guys on PC, all without the help of the top machine with the best accessories, and while having sometimes half the connection speed PC typically enjoys. We all manage to light attack weave just fine as well. Getting rid of light attacks is not going to suddenly make unskilled players better at the game. There is no magic ingredient that will suddenly get everyone silver and purple skins. However, the desire to improve and actual practice WILL help. That's the only real difference. Those who are completing the content and gaining leaderboard spots do so because we put in the time and the effort. That's it.

Practice is not "the only REAL difference." "Nearly the same dps" doesn't cut it to be in that .01% that have completed the content I referred to.

Lots of us can get score runs on vMol or complete v dungeons/trials with bad lag and ping. We can even do VCR plus x with lots and lots of practice and luck so no one disconnects or lags at a critical point. But that does not mean the gulf isn't widening steadily even if we do practice.

Why are people so *** protective of LA weaving as the main source of DPS? On PC you can even macro a LA before every skill if you don't lag. How the hell is that a justifiable as a demonstration of skill?

LA weaving is a boring twitchy no skill FPS mechanic that adds little to the game except eliminating more and more players from even attempting end game. It produces numbers on dummies that only serve to stop people from even trying to do harder trials because they know they cannot achieve those numbers no matter how much they practice for the reasons I outlined in my original post. It gives those that do practice zealously RSI and wrist ache unless they use macros and don't lag.

Even if LA weaving contributed 30% less to DPS or was subject to a GCD, those people who can do the stuff I referred to will still end up beating all the content on PTS before it's released. People who can weave perfectly now will still get end up leading the leaderboards but removing perfect LA weaving as the crucial source of dps would reduce the DPS gap for those who practice but are NOT perfect for a range of reason s beyond their control.

And won't effect people like you in the least because you practice and adapt and can do the hardest content like vSS no death hardmode on console.

Stebarnz · September 2019

Anyone saying stop ani cancel. We know you cant play and don't have the speed or ability to process information like others but to want to slow this games fast paced combat system down means this game isn't for you so stick to questing or normal dungeons!

If you don't want to ani cancel then don't, you can still pull 40k (current patch non trial) without it. But don't expect everyone to conform to YOUR needs.

Anyone saying don't balance around pvp. They HAVE to balance around pvp as that is the only true test, balancing pve is easy as mobs have predictable behaviour and a mere mob health increase or decrease will balance combat time which in turn balances sustain per combat and in turn balances dps, then add in mechanics and you good, if you cant see this then you don't understand how this works.

WrathOfInnos · September 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

vgabor wrote: »

As many people multiple times said, the main problem is not the power creep or increasing dps numbers, but the ever widening gap between floor and ceiling. While the top groups simply breeze through the content, your average player has much more difficulty clearing vet content. Just go to a vet crag trial pug and see what's the pug dps there, it's not something which really need to be nerfed...

Flat dps nerfs not gonna do anything good, if ZOS want to solve the "dps in the sky" issue, they need to make nerf in a way which cuts top dps much more than average players dps, to bring the ceiling closer to the floor. Which would require a bit more thoughtful approach, like actually looking at the trial logs and analyse what the major sources of the differences in the dps between top and average groups, and find measurements which would affect the type of damages more prevalent in top groups.

One very radical idea as an example, taking that light attack weaving contribute to much bigger part of the damage in top groups than in average player groups is to either put the light attack under the GCD which would effectively remove light attack weaving or drastically cut down the light attack damage to be like 10-15% of the normal one if there was a skill cast in the previous 1-2 seconds. Steps like this would reduce the gap between floor and ceiling but since they would cause a very loud protest from influencer top players, they never going to happen...

I'd love to see this one day. And honestly, who cares about the players at the top, the small percentage? Vast majority of players would be happy and welcome the change. That's how it should be.

Wow, what a bad attitude. Why is it that the “top players” try to work on solutions to raise the floor and help everyone complete content, while the “bottom players” only want to lower the ceiling and prevent others from doing well?

And the vast majority of players are able to click their left mouse button once per second between skills, just a few on the forums continue to fight against a game mechanic that is clearly intended at this point (see Relequen, Spell Strategist, Martial Knowledge, Z’en’s Redress).

RustedValor · September 2019

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Not sure if this belongs here, but a little question to necromancer. What do these changes mean?

First the Information from the developer:
Due to many of the current targeting issues with corpses and tether abilities, we are allowing Shocking Siphon and its morphs, as well as Restoring Tether and its morphs, to bypass the global cooldown. We are currently working on alternative methods to improve the targeting for these abilities, as well as improving the reliability of created corpses and their durations, but are not ready to implement them quite yet. We’re aware of the frustrating nature of attempting to use these abilities, which is why we have added a small stop-gap measure in the meantime until we can properly solve the issue.

Basically saying "Shocking Siphon is bugged and we won't fix it yet". Then it goes:

Shocking Siphon: Decreased the damage per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 33%.

So a broken ability that has never worked correctly and will not work correctly after the patch will now also have a damage reduction (same for Skeletal Mage by the way). Which leaves the necromancer with exactly one ability that is partially functioning (terrorist bomber). How exactly are they supposed to actually kill stuff?

That class has no execute. No dmg buff. No burst damage. No damage over time (because bugged) and complete garbage healing, but you still expect people to pay for it? lol...

Well the class execute for Necro is that every Necro Ability Crits when under 25% health. That is if you build your character right, Use Mothers Sorrow, and the Crit damage increase Mundus Stone and run all divines, run blood thirst on your Jewlery, and spec your CP for higher crit damage. All of those necro skill damage over time damage really snowball for insane execute damage.

SoLooney · September 2019

Marcus684 wrote: »

Across the board dps nerfs are really the only was to combat the power creep that has been allowed to run unchecked for years. It just means that dungeon and trial groups will have to start dealing with some mechanics that they’ve been able to avoid by burning down bosses quickly. It’s not the end of the world.

Over 30k drop in dps on pts is very severe. Dps was very similar to what it was in 2017 clockwork city and horns of the reach

I understand trying to tone down power creep but cutting skill damage by 40 to 60perc is a dumb solution. Not to mention a ton of skills are costing way more, making sustain extremely rough and lowering dps even more because the need to heavy attack more often

Devs have no clue how to balance or tone down damage, it's pretty clear reading the patch notes. Wheeler and Gilliam, you really dont have any idea. Honestly, lost all respect for you Gilliam seeing as how you know to combat system very well from your videos but zos is telling you to shut up or paying you handsomely to go along with this BS

You're not only hurting end game players dps, you're discouraging players to be good at end game pve

MrGhosty · September 2019

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

TirantLoBlanch wrote: »

it´s simple.
ZOS is saying that we have to waste insane amounts of time leveling skills and learning new rotations, doing boring parses in skeletons, to be rewarded with a lose of only the 30 per cent of our dps, or the 60 if we dont use our free time in front of the dummies.

And worst, you know it´s really throw your time, because they will put upside down the meta a month later.

Games are suposed to be fun an rewarding.
So bye bye eso plus suscription.
I pay for fun, for feel obliged to do boring things i dont enjoy, i expect to be payed

No ZOS doesn't force you to do anything like that, neither telling you to have to waste insane amount of hours learning rotations and doing dummy training to play the game.

Is the elitist part of the community who forces YOU to do those things, if you want to be accepted in their fold.
The game is simple enough on exploring and questing part, and playing at the Normal difficulty content (and non DLC vet) with Sword, Shield in DPS crafted gear using Bitting Jabs, Pierce Armour, Reverse Slash or Surprise attack.

Yeah the above setup does around 20K DPS, with S&B in HA in Templar, Sorc and NB, while you can tank Normal difficulty dungeons (even DLC ones), and heal also. And take the same toon to Cyrodiil having a blast.

Thats the game ZOS designs and promotes to "play as you like", even hybrid Stamina/Magicka build (the game was designed for those builds). Everything else is the toxic elitist community who brought specific builds and rotations in Elder Scrolls.

I would respectfully disagree that ZOS isn't forcing this. If you look at the achievements and some of the coveted rewards they require a ton of investment and hard work to acquire. The dps drop can be adjusted to and I fully except that it was getting a bit overboard, but coupling that with the additional resource cost is abysmal. I've never felt any pressure to hit certain dps thresholds by anything other than some of the shiny rewards gated behind that content. It's also worth mentioning that putting yourself up against hard odds and surviving is incredibly satisfying.

I left for a few years and just got back a few months ago, I've been working very hard on getting endgame level toons geared and trained up and just reached a point where I was no longer dead weight on a vet trials run. The dps nerf coupled with resource cost change is going to push me back out of that run. That's not because the people I play with are "elite", it's because ZOS has balanced these bosses to require a certain level of dps in order to clear the content and I will no longer cut it. So much for "play how you want to play" eh?

I really hope they change their minds on the resource costs, I can live with/adjust to the new damage numbers but the sustain issue is going to kill a lot of the endgame content for me and largely devalue all the time and investment I put in to getting to where I am.