Really, the only difference I really saw in these patch notes was on giving the Warden, Sorc and DK distinct stam identities from other classes. Players already ran with spam focused setups, so this really doesn't change that.

susmitds wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

This has been a focus of the players for a while now.

Previously, ZOS tried to encourage "interesting" combat, and that appeared to be not well received. Not that anything ZOS does appears to be well received. (ZOS could hand out free crowns and there would be a toddler meltdown in the forum) Interesting combat is fine, I guess. I was not excited about interesting combat options when Wrobel presented them.

My builds have centered around a good spammable skill for years, now.

This is the view of only the most casual players, which is not really affected by any of the changes what so ever and not most of the community.

A good majority of the playerbase has been protesting against the dumbing down of the game and random changes just for sake of changing things.

I think that the "casual players" probably make up most of the player base, not the other way around. I used to think otherwise, but a few years back the realization hit me. This game is really fun when played that way and I have adopted it.

Yes, the forums protest against these things, and that makes it seem like a lot of people, but I have never considered the forums to represent more than a fraction of the players in the game.

U23 took spammables from mag builds. Looks like they will be back soon...

starkerealm wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

This is the view of only the most casual players, which is not really affected by any of the changes what so ever and not most of the community.

No, many high end builds run on spammable abilities. Saying @LordRichter is "the most casual [of] players," is downright hilarious. Dude's been around a lot longer than you, and judging by this comment has far more experience with what high level play looks like.

susmitds wrote: »

A good majority of the playerbase has been protesting against the dumbing down of the game and random changes just for sake of changing things.

A "good majority of the playerbase" hasn't said anything. The forums are not representative of the community as a whole. It pulls a very specific cross section of players. Beyond that, you'd be hard pressed to get a consensus of, "dumbing down," from the forums. You'll get a lot of people throwing a tantrum over perceived nerfs, but don't think for a second that you speak for the community at large, especially when your position is so extremely jaundiced.

@starkerealm I feel you and I are referring to a very different crowd of people when I say casual players. I will clear out by saying, by casual I am referring to the part of the player base that only does questing, housing and overland content, does not really do any vet dungeons or trials; you know the part that plays the game for the story and social aspect of the game. You see, I am not saying it in any derogatory sense and I feel it is a perfectly fine way to enjoy the game that way. However, from the mathematically point of view, due to the low resists and HP of the enemies faced in this style of gameplay, the DoT nerfs do not really change anything as just spammables are enough to deal with everything and in fact that it is what most casual players use.

I never said @LordRichter is the most casual [of] players, just said it is the view generally shared by the part of the player base mentioned above.

My statement was based purely on the fact that builds centering around spammable is a focus of the player base. This is only true for overland questing and normal dungeons. For any other part of the player base, be it PvP, veteran pledges(including DLC), progression PvE or endgame PvE, this builds generally don't work, barring a few notable exceptions like the WW builds, pet-sorc heavy attack builds. In fact, be it meta or non-meta builds, to cross the 40k solo parse standard required for the most part in the recent vDLC dungeons and trials, you are forced to use multiple DoTs with a single spammable and the spammable hardly ever does even 15% of the total damage.

As for your conclusion about my level of play, I would rather not get into a stupid argument over something that doesn't really matter in the end. I have been here since beta, have nearly every PvP achievements, regularly do solo and small-scale PvP and have all vet hm trials and dungeon cleared nearly weekly, though.

Also, obviously I have every right to complain about the nerfs. You see, I lead weekend progression trial groups to help the newer PvErs get their clears and can clearly see the struggles they are going through. When nearly every patch, a good deal of their rotation gets harder and harder while their staple DPS abilities are hit with 50-65% damage nerfs, it can be very disheartening and they make up a significantly large yet ever diminishing amount of the player base due to stupid balance decision explained by ZOS as "but Gilliam can still do dungeons".

susmitds wrote: »

You see, I lead weekend progression trial groups to help the newer PvErs get their clears and can clearly see the struggles they are going through. When nearly every patch, a good deal of their rotation gets harder and harder while their staple DPS abilities are hit with 50-65% damage nerfs, it can be very disheartening and they make up a significantly large yet ever diminishing amount of the player base due to stupid balance decision explained by ZOS as "but Gilliam can still do dungeons".

And, to an extent, you're the one responsible for their pain and suffering. You're dictating the methods and telling them to improve without adapting. A large part of this audit (starting back in Elsweyr), has been to break the existing metas. So, telling players to just keep trying harder to hit the same numbers on, now out of date, builds is not productive and won't work.

I wish they introduced a good stam or masorc spammable!