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Build Lending for PvP
InvictusApollo
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Some time ago I've made a thread asking about biggest challenges of new PvP players. Whole thread could be boiled down to this: lack of experience/skill and lack of PvP gear. While getting experience and honing your skills can only be done through playing in PvP, the other issue could be solved sytematically.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Some time ago I've made a thread asking about biggest challenges of new PvP players. Whole thread could be boiled down to this: lack of experience/skill and lack of PvP gear. While getting experience and honing your skills can only be done through playing in PvP, the other issue could be solved sytematically.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
Quite interesting idea, I'd love to see something like this but I'm afraid it's to much work
I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
Darkenarlol✭✭✭✭✭
✭paying for crappy blue temporary gear
that turns into a pumpkin at midnight?
meh
i prefer to work on my builds in old-fashioned way0 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strange - this idea would easily let PvPers transition into PvP. And yet there is no discussion about it O_o0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvP players generally want to run the best gear and stats possible ... new players included.
Running a watered-down version of a build might not only be a turn-off. New players might also not get the full experience from a template build versus the real thing.
That said, the idea is interesting and has a lot of potential for new PvP players.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Some time ago I've made a thread asking about biggest challenges of new PvP players. Whole thread could be boiled down to this: lack of experience/skill and lack of PvP gear. While getting experience and honing your skills can only be done through playing in PvP, the other issue could be solved sytematically.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
I unno about build lending; but, the biggest obstacle to new people pvping successfully is a lack of knowledge, builds being at the center of that.
Oddly, enough, the best source of knowledge I’ve gotten were from people who killed me early on. Most of the really good, high level PvPers I met gave me all sorts of build advice and tips in general when I whispered them and it wasn’t a hate tell. I made a ton of friends that way.
As a theorycrafter I’m only so-so. I theorycraft my own builds and test them with pals and usually my builds are trash. Yet, they are suited to the way I like to play. I came up with only one build I can say was all my own that was good on ITS own ( but ZOS nerfed it sideways lol).
I was fortunate once early on, to message probably the best MagDk PcNA who just tosses me builds and duels me silly. THAT’s been the key to whatever success I’ve achieved pvping.
This fool can look at any skill any set and come up with builds. Sure he tests the stuff relentlessly. However, he has so much knowledge of the game that it seems like he comes up with this stuff out of thin air. What’s helpful is that talking about theorycrafting helps. It’s how you learn. ZOS can’t do anything to help the average player like that because NOBODY at ZOS PvPs on as high a level lol. At all.Edited by JumpmanLane on September 15, 2019 9:46PM1 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »PvP players generally want to run the best gear and stats possible ... new players included.
Running a watered-down version of a build might not only be a turn-off. New players might also not get the full experience from a template build versus the real thing.
That said, the idea is interesting and has a lot of potential for new PvP players.
Actually blue equipment isn't that bad if you have all sets synergizing with each other. Sure you have a disadvantage compared to someone who has everything golden but the difference isn't that huge. And you get the build for a fraction of the cost.
It's not meant to replace builds. Builds lending purpose is to let people test new builds in real combat and to give PvErs and newbies that needed equipment to actually hold their ground. It's definitely better to have a blue PvP build that has been theorycrafted by a master theorycrafter, than to go in a PvE build or even in a purple entry level PvP build.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Some time ago I've made a thread asking about biggest challenges of new PvP players. Whole thread could be boiled down to this: lack of experience/skill and lack of PvP gear. While getting experience and honing your skills can only be done through playing in PvP, the other issue could be solved sytematically.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
Or you could jump on pts and literally have everything you want right now. That's what I do to test builds.0 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Some time ago I've made a thread asking about biggest challenges of new PvP players. Whole thread could be boiled down to this: lack of experience/skill and lack of PvP gear. While getting experience and honing your skills can only be done through playing in PvP, the other issue could be solved sytematically.
Build Lending
A PvP build consists of equipment and abilities that synergize together to accomplish a specified goal. That goal might be instashoting an enemy from sneak, surviving a brawl, being immortal etc. However making a build is a task that requires a lot of knowledge. You need to know how different sets interact with each other and how they affect abilities. You also need experience to know how much sustain or resources you need. And ofcourse you need to know game mechanics, for example the damage mitigation formula.
Even if you have all that, you still need to physically make the build in game. That includes buying/farming set pieces, transmuting some or even all of them and enchanting them. That takes quite a lot of time and even more gold. Tranmutation crystals are often the rarest and a build may require upto 600 of them.
As you can see or know from your own experience, making a build - any build, even a PvE one is quite an undertaking. Even making a basic build that uses crafted sets.
And even if you are a great theorycrafter you may come up with a build that simply doesn't work.
What if you could lend a build for a game session? For example for a single BG match or an hour of Cyrodill or IC gameplay.
What do I mean by "lend a build"? You choose your build from a list of builds made by other players. You pay for it to use it during one game session. Upon payment you get all fully enchanted and transmuted set pieces. However all of those pieces are temporary and can't be equiped, sold and deconstructed after a timer passes or a BG match ends. Furthermore they aren't as good as those farmed yourself. They might be enchanted and upgraded with up to blue quality materials. Or sth else can be implemented to nerf them and incentivise people to get their own items instead of allways only lending them.
Builds would be done by all other players or by a select few who got authorisation by ZOS. The incentive to make a build would be getting a cut from every build lending or some prizes if enough ppl lend your build.
Thanks to Build Lending you could test a build without too much of a cost. Not only that but you could also be competetive in PvP. This way PvErs will get a chance to experience real PvP, while PvPers will get better fights.
I'm sure this idea needs some polishing and adjustments to prevent exploits and unwanted repercussions.
I await your opinion.
Or you could jump on pts and literally have everything you want right now. That's what I do to test builds.
I tried that but downloading the whole pts version is an extremely lenghty process that also requires a lot of storage space. Not many people have it even downloaded. Besides PvP on pts isn't the real pvp from live server.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of the details are fairly complicated.
Thing is, there's not a lack of cheap impen trait gear if you aren't too picky about the meta.
I'd probably go for a simpler solution: introduce 2 new sets acquired from Below 50 Cyrodiil, Below 50 BGs, and as a 1 or 2 trait crafted set. The dropped sets come in Impen trait and are in addition to the normal rewards, so every match or reward of the worthy you'll get a new piece in that set to replace an old piece.
We can quibble about the exact nature of the sets. The idea would be for those 2 sets to contain the basics of what we tell new players to bring to PVP. Players can start there and then branch out. At its simplest, I'd made one set Defensive, granting Crit, health, Physical and Spell resistances. The other is a sustain set. Neither is quite as good as more experienced players can buy or craft, but its easy to acquire for new players and easy to replace with pieces of the same set as new players level up.
Moreover, I would add 5 pieces of those sets to the options for Level Up rewards at level 10 for new players who want to jump into PVP as soon as its available. Alternatively, 5 pieces of their choice of starter set could be the reward for completing the tutorial quest for BGs and Cyrodiil so new players can get a leveled set when they are first starting out.
I think the key factor is that the sets need to be easily obtained and easily replaced by new players as they level so they continue to benefit from 5 piece sets and from battleleveling.0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In the end the community has such a thing. @Alcast builds. Run those. ZOS doesn’t necessarily have to give out gear. It is necessary to grind stuff.
Now I won’t run an Alcast PvP build on a bet. However, Alcast is a valuable resource in that he explains the “whys” behind his builds. That’s useful early on.0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »In the end the community has such a thing. @Alcast builds. Run those. ZOS doesn’t necessarily have to give out gear. It is necessary to grind stuff.
Now I won’t run an Alcast PvP build on a bet. However, Alcast is a valuable resource in that he explains the “whys” behind his builds. That’s useful early on.
I used to seek out great players and ask for a duel. They were friendly and gave me good advice.1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »In the end the community has such a thing. @Alcast builds. Run those. ZOS doesn’t necessarily have to give out gear. It is necessary to grind stuff.
Now I won’t run an Alcast PvP build on a bet. However, Alcast is a valuable resource in that he explains the “whys” behind his builds. That’s useful early on.
I used to seek out great players and ask for a duel. They were friendly and gave me good advice.
Yup. Totally agree. Most folks I’ve encountered who are really good at pvp are like that.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »In the end the community has such a thing. @Alcast builds. Run those. ZOS doesn’t necessarily have to give out gear. It is necessary to grind stuff.
Now I won’t run an Alcast PvP build on a bet. However, Alcast is a valuable resource in that he explains the “whys” behind his builds. That’s useful early on.
Don't run alcast PvP builds1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »JumpmanLane wrote: »In the end the community has such a thing. @Alcast builds. Run those. ZOS doesn’t necessarily have to give out gear. It is necessary to grind stuff.
Now I won’t run an Alcast PvP build on a bet. However, Alcast is a valuable resource in that he explains the “whys” behind his builds. That’s useful early on.
Don't run alcast PvP builds
I agreed lol. I wouldn’t them builds on a bet! But Alcast is a helpful resource if you’re brand new and don’t know anything.0