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End of Loot Boxes in UK?
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Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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This, honestly. It’s a bit annoying hearing “think of the children!” On here. Well first off, why is the child playing an 18+ game?kinguardian wrote: »I saw that and i would find it a shame if it would disappear in eso. It is a game for adults and if you let your children play the game then it is your own responsibility. They can protect it more like putting something in place that you need to be 21 to buy crates but you can acces the rest of the game and that you can only by 3x crates a week. Something like that.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »
Nope.starkerealm wrote: »Further, and this is kinda important to understand, bans like this are absolutely enforceable. If you're selling products in a country, you're bound by the laws in that country. As a business, you can't argue, "I'm hiding behind seven proxies." You're doing business in their territorial boarders, you can run afoul of their laws. The consequences for blowing off a nation's laws can be quite dire.
Not how it works.
I'm going to stop you there. Last I checked, the UK does not have judicial review. So, most of what you're saying might carry some weight in an American court, but simply isn't how UK courts function, and you're assuming that the British judiciary has powers it lacks because that's how it works on Law & Order.
You are correct that UK Parliament is sovereign and as such the only body that can overturn a law passed by parliament is another parliament. However, it is very premature to think the UK will do an absolute ban on loot crates of all kinds for all ages.
I don't believe this is the kind of topic that would be legislated on by a UK government. Conservatives don't want enhanced state interference and if we get a Labour government in the foreseeable future video games would be way off the bottom of their marxist agenda under the present leadership. If it happened, it would more likely be by way of a Private Member's Bill and there's always a lot of competition for those and very few get anywhere.
The US is a bit different on the application of laws as, so far as I understand it, the interpretation of laws depends primarily on whether the judge is a Republican or Democrat placement, quite apart from the question of whether lootbox legislation would be passed on a state or federal basis.
I do not know why you have made this comment in reply to what I had said. No where in what you quoted does do I suggest the UK government will do anything.
It really seems you just wanted to express some partisan views since you are neither disputing or agreeing with what I said.2 -
randomkeyhits✭✭✭✭✭So intense....
The UK gambling laws were bought in to meet the needs at the time they were set. Funnily enough the emphasis was not about individuals and their vulnerability but about money laundering because governments hate money getting away from them.
Time passes and we now have a report which unsurprisingly says things have moved on, the gambling landscape has changed and the laws need to be adjusted to be fit for purpose.Its not surprising that children are one of the points of emphasis as never before has "the house" had such unfettered access to them.
The government will take this report and other sources and do something, quite what no one knows yet and there has been little indication as to which way it will lean. Though any action that will be taken is quite likely to be by a different government given the upheavels we are going through
All i've really taken from this is that the report was well reasoned with no real hysteria and is fairly convincing. Personally I would expect that this would be the basis for any changed but you know.... governments......
Will keep an eye on the developing saga and hope something sane comes from it within the next couple of year.EU PS40 -
Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭None of the things you mentioned requires a government. Those are merely the parasites that latches on the progress created by the business people. Enjoy being a pet of your betters and rely on their mercy. Bow to the king and lick his boots.
Give an example of any one country that manages to have schools, police, roads and all the other services and infrastructure government provides without having a government.
That's anarchist pipe dreams, even less realistic than communism. Look at your life, man, and think how well you'd be off without all the gifts society - as in: government services - has given you and your family.
OP was on about parasites on business people, so not anarchistic at all - more the hideousness of unfettered neoliberal capitalism - off topic yes, but unfair disparaging of anarchy 😉2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
Physical TCGs will be fine. Not sure about the British precedents, but in the States trading card packs are considered akin to a physical "grab bag." You're always getting a physical product, so you are getting something at least as valuable as the asking price. However, if you're asking about digital TCGs like Magic: The Gathering: Arena, or The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm not sure. They certainly fit all of the prerequisites.
Yep, my question is about the digital card games. Their packs aren't different from a digital loot box, they only have a different name - plus they are more or less required to effectively play the game, so can even be considered as a P2W mechanic.
Yeah, electronic card packs fit the description given, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're collateral damage in all of this.
Now, honestly? I'm okay with that. It won't kill the genre, because there is the LCG model in the real world, which a number of publishers have started transitioning to. If electronic CCGs transition over to that format, I'm happy. I still remember the endorphin rushes from cracking packs when I was younger, but, to be honest, the non-random buy format is way more consumer friendly across the board, and puts the focus on your ability to play instead of your luck on getting the card you wanted from a booster.
(Fantasy Flight Games trademarked LCGs, or Living Card Games, to refer to a CCG distribution system where cards are sold in fixed bundles, so keeping up with the release schedule costs a fixed amount, rather than throwing money at randomized packs. Doesn't hurt that there have been some really good LCGs, including Warhammer 40k Conquest, and a Star Wars LCG, though both of those have since been retired.)
TCGs were the first loot boxes. People have just become desensitized to them.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 15, 2019 1:52PM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The government is useless and incompetent 100% of the time everywhere in the planet. They should most definately not interfer in the free market. The problem of loot boxes is that reeks of greed, a trait most of us learned to despise. Surely ZOS could earn tons of profits by fostering a good long term business model? Since I'm not part of the pathetic group of the species that needs a nanny to tell them what's right and what's wrong, I simply withdraw my money from ZOS' grasp. Very easily fixed if all humans learned to use their wallet power.
So democratically elected governments are useless and private, self-interested corporations (whose owners were not elected by anyone) should be left alone to do as they please? Nothing can possibly go wrong in that scenario.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 15, 2019 1:50PM2 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »OP was on about parasites on business people, so not anarchistic at all - more the hideousness of unfettered neoliberal capitalism - off topic yes, but unfair disparaging of anarchy 😉
Sorry, didn't want to trample on anarchy. Anomie is probably the better term to describe what the so-called neo-liberals try to achieve. But anarchy is used - wrongly, I agree - in that meaning in the public discourse that it's tempting to follow that abuse of this innocent concept.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »
Nope.starkerealm wrote: »Further, and this is kinda important to understand, bans like this are absolutely enforceable. If you're selling products in a country, you're bound by the laws in that country. As a business, you can't argue, "I'm hiding behind seven proxies." You're doing business in their territorial boarders, you can run afoul of their laws. The consequences for blowing off a nation's laws can be quite dire.
Not how it works.
I'm going to stop you there. Last I checked, the UK does not have judicial review. So, most of what you're saying might carry some weight in an American court, but simply isn't how UK courts function, and you're assuming that the British judiciary has powers it lacks because that's how it works on Law & Order.
You are correct that UK Parliament is sovereign and as such the only body that can overturn a law passed by parliament is another parliament. However, it is very premature to think the UK will do an absolute ban on loot crates of all kinds for all ages.
I don't believe this is the kind of topic that would be legislated on by a UK government. Conservatives don't want enhanced state interference and if we get a Labour government in the foreseeable future video games would be way off the bottom of their marxist agenda under the present leadership. If it happened, it would more likely be by way of a Private Member's Bill and there's always a lot of competition for those and very few get anywhere.
The US is a bit different on the application of laws as, so far as I understand it, the interpretation of laws depends primarily on whether the judge is a Republican or Democrat placement, quite apart from the question of whether lootbox legislation would be passed on a state or federal basis.
I do not know why you have made this comment in reply to what I had said. No where in what you quoted does do I suggest the UK government will do anything.
It really seems you just wanted to express some partisan views since you are neither disputing or agreeing with what I said.
It was a direct comment on, and primarily agreeing with, the final sentence of what you said. You commented that it was premature to think the UK would do an absolute ban, I replied that it was unlikely a UK government would legislate on this kind of thing.
Perhaps you're not used to people more or less agreeing with you
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