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End of Loot Boxes in UK?
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Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The government is useless and incompetent 100% of the time everywhere in the planet.
100% of the time? Eh, no, I wouldn't go that far.
99% of the time? Oh hell yeah. No question. Useless, incompetent and much, much worse. The problem is you still need them for that 1% of the time they're actually doing something right because if you don't then the world turns to chaos."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭There is a good video about the subject, if anyone is wondering what is happening and what would happen next (It is 37 mins).
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OKhSe6LcW-Q
Edited by Mitrenga on September 14, 2019 7:47AM0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »Both Jim Stirling and Yong Yea Videos point out that it isn't just about children, so its not "Bad Parenting" there are problem gamblers, there is the mentality impaired adults, people on the spectrum, and just straight depression that can all lead to compulsive spending
Sad truth is, it's the financially struggling adult that is more likely to gamble. They seem to think that they'll eventually get that big win and all their problems will go away. I know two people in this situation, and unfortunately them gambling habits transfer over to loot boxes in games. One of them spent over £100 a day in loot boxes, lost his wife, kids, got kicked out of the house, lived in his car, lost his job. I think you see where this is going. I hate loot boxes, and they need to disappear.3 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭There’s an episode of South Park that nails it:
Season 18 episode 6, Freemium isnt Free0 -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.0 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭The government is useless and incompetent 100% of the time everywhere in the planet. They should most definately not interfer in the free market. The problem of loot boxes is that reeks of greed, a trait most of us learned to despise. Surely ZOS could earn tons of profits by fostering a good long term business model? Since I'm not part of the pathetic group of the species that needs a nanny to tell them what's right and what's wrong, I simply withdraw my money from ZOS' grasp. Very easily fixed if all humans learned to use their wallet power.
The teachers that tought you to read, the road that brings you to work, the building you live in without killing you - that's all due to the government. The fact that somebody cannot walk over to your house and beat you to a bloody pulp for posting bs about politics on the internet - government interference!
Please, dear comrades on the "abolish government because they want to take away my loot boxes which I'm totally not addicted to" trip, take a step back and look at the greater picture. Change hurts, but without change, there's no progress.Edited by Taloros on September 14, 2019 8:23AM0 -
Coolits✭✭✭ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »
Nope.starkerealm wrote: »Further, and this is kinda important to understand, bans like this are absolutely enforceable. If you're selling products in a country, you're bound by the laws in that country. As a business, you can't argue, "I'm hiding behind seven proxies." You're doing business in their territorial boarders, you can run afoul of their laws. The consequences for blowing off a nation's laws can be quite dire.
Not how it works.
I'm going to stop you there. Last I checked, the UK does not have judicial review. So, most of what you're saying might carry some weight in an American court, but simply isn't how UK courts function, and you're assuming that the British judiciary has powers it lacks because that's how it works on Law & Order.
You are correct that UK Parliament is sovereign and as such the only body that can overturn a law passed by parliament is another parliament. However, it is very premature to think the UK will do an absolute ban on loot crates of all kinds for all ages.
Yeah, agreed, I don't expect a full ban, as was the case in Belgium. I suspect the UK will regulate (and tax) loot boxes under their existing gambling frameworks.
If that comes with a mandatory 18+ rating for any game with loot box systems, it will have a serious effect on the sales of those titles in the UK. That said, it'll have less of an effect now, than it would have had before their brick and mortar retail industry started circling the drain.1 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »In case this part got away from you, EA sent a rep to parliament to lie for the publisher. People are not happy with them right now.
Oh I am well aware of that. And frankly speaking, people have not been happy with EA for a good long time now.
While correct, the people pissed with EA six weeks ago did not include Members of British Parliament. Now it does. They're not happy that EA's rep lied to their face, and now they have the public feedback to fuel that anger. This is, ironically out of EA's playbook in the States, where behavior like that would have (probably) been accepted at face value. However, the UK is not the US. They do things a little differently.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
Physical TCGs will be fine. Not sure about the British precedents, but in the States trading card packs are considered akin to a physical "grab bag." You're always getting a physical product, so you are getting something at least as valuable as the asking price. However, if you're asking about digital TCGs like Magic: The Gathering: Arena, or The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm not sure. They certainly fit all of the prerequisites.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But the MPs found the industry was reluctant to accept responsibility for intervening when a player was over-spending or even to put a figure on how much was too much.
I am shocked
And some had been "wilfully obtuse" in answering questions about game-play, which MPs needed to know in order to better understand how players engaged with games.
"Surprise mechanics"Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 14, 2019 11:28AM2 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
Physical TCGs will be fine. Not sure about the British precedents, but in the States trading card packs are considered akin to a physical "grab bag." You're always getting a physical product, so you are getting something at least as valuable as the asking price. However, if you're asking about digital TCGs like Magic: The Gathering: Arena, or The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm not sure. They certainly fit all of the prerequisites.
Yep, my question is about the digital card games. Their packs aren't different from a digital loot box, they only have a different name - plus they are more or less required to effectively play the game, so can even be considered as a P2W mechanic.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
That is not entirely true. There are useful items, like XP scrolls or potions. While in the low end of the "useful scale" they are still useful.. With enough +150% xp scrolls you can level up to max level 3 times as fast. Buying such an item for money for no time investment is certainly an advantage over grinding ressources or gold in game to get the equivalent xp pots.
Banker and merchant assistants are other advantages. It's definitely an advantage not having to visit a bank to be able to deposit/withdraw from the bank, or not having to visit a vendor when you can pull one out of your pocket.Edited by Jayman1000 on September 14, 2019 1:40PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
Physical TCGs will be fine. Not sure about the British precedents, but in the States trading card packs are considered akin to a physical "grab bag." You're always getting a physical product, so you are getting something at least as valuable as the asking price. However, if you're asking about digital TCGs like Magic: The Gathering: Arena, or The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm not sure. They certainly fit all of the prerequisites.
Yep, my question is about the digital card games. Their packs aren't different from a digital loot box, they only have a different name - plus they are more or less required to effectively play the game, so can even be considered as a P2W mechanic.
Yeah, electronic card packs fit the description given, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're collateral damage in all of this.
Now, honestly? I'm okay with that. It won't kill the genre, because there is the LCG model in the real world, which a number of publishers have started transitioning to. If electronic CCGs transition over to that format, I'm happy. I still remember the endorphin rushes from cracking packs when I was younger, but, to be honest, the non-random buy format is way more consumer friendly across the board, and puts the focus on your ability to play instead of your luck on getting the card you wanted from a booster.
(Fantasy Flight Games trademarked LCGs, or Living Card Games, to refer to a CCG distribution system where cards are sold in fixed bundles, so keeping up with the release schedule costs a fixed amount, rather than throwing money at randomized packs. Doesn't hurt that there have been some really good LCGs, including Warhammer 40k Conquest, and a Star Wars LCG, though both of those have since been retired.)1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »nafensoriel wrote: »
Nope.starkerealm wrote: »Further, and this is kinda important to understand, bans like this are absolutely enforceable. If you're selling products in a country, you're bound by the laws in that country. As a business, you can't argue, "I'm hiding behind seven proxies." You're doing business in their territorial boarders, you can run afoul of their laws. The consequences for blowing off a nation's laws can be quite dire.
Not how it works.
I'm going to stop you there. Last I checked, the UK does not have judicial review. So, most of what you're saying might carry some weight in an American court, but simply isn't how UK courts function, and you're assuming that the British judiciary has powers it lacks because that's how it works on Law & Order.
You are correct that UK Parliament is sovereign and as such the only body that can overturn a law passed by parliament is another parliament. However, it is very premature to think the UK will do an absolute ban on loot crates of all kinds for all ages.
I don't believe this is the kind of topic that would be legislated on by a UK government. Conservatives don't want enhanced state interference and if we get a Labour government in the foreseeable future video games would be way off the bottom of their marxist agenda under the present leadership. If it happened, it would more likely be by way of a Private Member's Bill and there's always a lot of competition for those and very few get anywhere.
The US is a bit different on the application of laws as, so far as I understand it, the interpretation of laws depends primarily on whether the judge is a Republican or Democrat placement, quite apart from the question of whether lootbox legislation would be passed on a state or federal basis.Edited by Tandor on September 14, 2019 3:17PM0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Ydrisselle wrote: »ShellaSunshine wrote: »The ban will most likely NOT affect ESO in any way.
The loot boxes they are referring to are the ones where it's necessary to buy them to progress further in the game. Free to play mobile games like Animation Throwdown has these types of loot boxes. Progressing through this game for free takes a really long time so the developers has a store where you can spend x amount of money or in-game currency to get a chance at a better card. You are not guaranteed this card and the majority of the time, the more boxes you buy, the higher the price increases.
That's what the article is talking about.
Crown crates in ESO are not required to progress further into the game. In fact, nothing you buy in the Crown Store gives any advantages to players in any way.
The law sounds like it will affect games where it's Pay to Win meaning in order to get ahead of other players, you need to spend money for a chance for better loot which ultimately increases in price to increase your chances of improving in the game.
That is, by all definitions, gambling. Well, at the very least the gambling mentality. People think the more money they spend or bet on will increase their chances of winning. The reality?
It doesn't.
That’s not the case, this report has implications across the board and it’s not just limited to loot boxes either, you can read the full official report HERE.
The key points highlighted by Parliament are:
• Sale of loot boxes to children should be banned
• Government should regulate ‘loot boxes’ under the Gambling Act
• Games industry must face up to responsibilities to protect players from potential harms
• Industry levy to support independent research on long-term effects of gaming
• Serious concern at lack of effective system to keep children off age-restricted platforms and games
In bold above, notice there is no distinction between what loot boxes do and don’t contain, so crown crates in the UK will be regulated if this goes forward.
How will it affect TCGs like Magic the Gathering? You buy card packs and just could hope that it will contain cards you will be able to use
Physical TCGs will be fine. Not sure about the British precedents, but in the States trading card packs are considered akin to a physical "grab bag." You're always getting a physical product, so you are getting something at least as valuable as the asking price. However, if you're asking about digital TCGs like Magic: The Gathering: Arena, or The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm not sure. They certainly fit all of the prerequisites.
Yep, my question is about the digital card games. Their packs aren't different from a digital loot box, they only have a different name - plus they are more or less required to effectively play the game, so can even be considered as a P2W mechanic.
Yeah, electronic card packs fit the description given, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're collateral damage in all of this.
Now, honestly? I'm okay with that. It won't kill the genre, because there is the LCG model in the real world, which a number of publishers have started transitioning to. If electronic CCGs transition over to that format, I'm happy. I still remember the endorphin rushes from cracking packs when I was younger, but, to be honest, the non-random buy format is way more consumer friendly across the board, and puts the focus on your ability to play instead of your luck on getting the card you wanted from a booster.
(Fantasy Flight Games trademarked LCGs, or Living Card Games, to refer to a CCG distribution system where cards are sold in fixed bundles, so keeping up with the release schedule costs a fixed amount, rather than throwing money at randomized packs. Doesn't hurt that there have been some really good LCGs, including Warhammer 40k Conquest, and a Star Wars LCG, though both of those have since been retired.)
Well rip my Fable Legends game I just downloaded0 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭The government is useless and incompetent 100% of the time everywhere in the planet. They should most definately not interfer in the free market. The problem of loot boxes is that reeks of greed, a trait most of us learned to despise. Surely ZOS could earn tons of profits by fostering a good long term business model? Since I'm not part of the pathetic group of the species that needs a nanny to tell them what's right and what's wrong, I simply withdraw my money from ZOS' grasp. Very easily fixed if all humans learned to use their wallet power.
The teachers that tought you to read, the road that brings you to work, the building you live in without killing you - that's all due to the government. The fact that somebody cannot walk over to your house and beat you to a bloody pulp for posting bs about politics on the internet - government interference!
Please, dear comrades on the "abolish government because they want to take away my loot boxes which I'm totally not addicted to" trip, take a step back and look at the greater picture. Change hurts, but without change, there's no progress.
None of the things you mentioned requires a government. Those are merely the parasites that latches on the progress created by the business people. Enjoy being a pet of your betters and rely on their mercy. Bow to the king and lick his boots.2 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If if they can't ban lootboxes in ESO, they would label ESO as a gambling game. I believe taxation on gambling services is different than digital entertainment services?0 -
rpa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think if gambling laws in my particular corner of EU were made to apply on loot boxes, publisher of this game would need to be a registred nonprofit organization and use 50% of gathered funds to charity. Good luck on that.
Gambling for money is a state monopoly here.
1 -
Zypheran✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Realistically, this is not about banning anything. This is about regulation. Gambling exists and always will. This is about governments seeking to tax the profits of these loot boxes. In turn, they will say that some of these revenues will go toward addressing the impacts of gambling, but realistically a committee or body will be set up with grossly overpaid members who will do lots to justify their jobs but little to combat the issue. Secondly they will say they are going to investigate ways of ensuring age regulation to ensure under 18s cannot buy loot boxes. But realistically, if they haven't done this yet for the online *** industry they ain't gonna do it to prevent teenagers buying sparkly ponies on the crown store.
Essentially, the only thing that may come of this, is more pressure on regulatory bodies to find a workable solution for robust online age verification.All my housing builds are available on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3oJ_cxuu01HmWZJZ6KK6g?view_as=subscriber
I am happy to share the EHT save files for most of my builds.2 -
MJallday✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree with the part about regulation. I’m not sure about the viability of taxation, given that these companies are mostly non uk
Based- but it’s a good and logical point - I’m convinced air would be taxed if they could figure out how
Personally what I think we will see is loot boxes but with a stated odds or “guaranteed drop” list OR we will see everything go into the crown store - which not only gets round the issue but generates more revenue
0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree with the part about regulation. I’m not sure about the viability of taxation, given that these companies are mostly non uk
Based- but it’s a good and logical point - I’m convinced air would be taxed if they could figure out how
Personally what I think we will see is loot boxes but with a stated odds or “guaranteed drop” list OR we will see everything go into the crown store - which not only gets round the issue but generates more revenue
Taxation in e-commerce is already pretty well worked out. In a case like this, where you're talking about major publishers selling their products in a country, they're already paying taxes, and things could get pretty nasty for them if they tried to dodge those taxes.1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Realistically, this is not about banning anything. This is about regulation.
Same thing, practically speaking.Agree with the part about regulation. I’m not sure about the viability of taxation, given that these companies are mostly non uk
Based- but it’s a good and logical point - I’m convinced air would be taxed if they could figure out how
Oh they've tried. Why do you think they push climate change so hard? As for being non-uk based, that sort of thing seems to matter less and less to them in recent years."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
kinguardian✭✭✭✭I saw that and i would find it a shame if it would disappear in eso. It is a game for adults and if you let your children play the game then it is your own responsibility. They can protect it more like putting something in place that you need to be 21 to buy crates but you can acces the rest of the game and that you can only by 3x crates a week. Something like that.
1 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭None of the things you mentioned requires a government. Those are merely the parasites that latches on the progress created by the business people. Enjoy being a pet of your betters and rely on their mercy. Bow to the king and lick his boots.
Give an example of any one country that manages to have schools, police, roads and all the other services and infrastructure government provides without having a government.
That's anarchist pipe dreams, even less realistic than communism. Look at your life, man, and think how well you'd be off without all the gifts society - as in: government services - has given you and your family.3 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭
Sale of Heroin is banned.
Driving a car is regulated.
Not the same thing.Oh they've tried. Why do you think they push climate change so hard?
You believe that climate change is a ploy to tax air? o.O1
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