How to balance once and for all the heavy armor meta in pvp

Delparis · September 2019

2 main passive issues that make Heavy armor meta in pvp:

https://eso-skillbook.com/skillline/heavy-armor

Constitution:
Increases your Health Recovery by 4% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Current bonus: 0%. You restore 108 Magicka and Stamina when you take damage for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. Current bonus: 0.
Revitalize:
Increases the Magicka or Stamina your Heavy Attacks restore by 25%.

How to balance this to only impact PvP:

Constitution:
Increases your Health Recovery by 4% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Current bonus: 0%. You restore 216 Magicka and Stamina when you take heavy attack damage for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. Current bonus: 0.
Revitalize
Increases the Magicka or Stamina your Heavy Attacks restore by 25%. Your movement speed is decreased by 15% and the cost of your sprint in increased by 15%.

rotaugen454 · September 2019

1 Make all armor sets give the same protection and set bonuses, regardless of type/weight
2 Make all skills give the same damage/heals regardless of class for the same cost
3 Make all weapons do exact same damage

There you go, balance. An incredibly boring game, but a balanced one.

redspecter23 · September 2019

Make heavy armor very defensive at the cost of offense. Throw all sorts of offensive debuffs in there. You want 5+ heavy pieces? Take a 90% reduction on your outgoing damage.

I'm sure I'm being a bit excessive but my point is, as long as you can be both defensive and offensive at the same time, you'll see people flock to heavy so they get at least a few seconds of combat before they melt away. Let players be defensive but they shouldn't also be able to burst players down while wearing heavy gear.

idk · September 2019

We now Zos will not do it because they will not have it work differently in PvE vs PvP.

Beyond that the solution is to simplistic for something that has much more going into it to make it so strong.

Delparis · September 2019

idk wrote: »

We now Zos will not do it because they will not have it work differently in PvE vs PvP.

Beyond that the solution is to simplistic for something that has much more going into it to make it so strong.

if you have a counterplay to those changes in passive i'm all ears.

React · September 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make heavy armor very defensive at the cost of offense. Throw all sorts of offensive debuffs in there. You want 5+ heavy pieces? Take a 90% reduction on your outgoing damage.

I'm sure I'm being a bit excessive but my point is, as long as you can be both defensive and offensive at the same time, you'll see people flock to heavy so they get at least a few seconds of combat before they melt away. Let players be defensive but they shouldn't also be able to burst players down while wearing heavy gear.

This doesn't work though. As it stands, a player that wants to play to survive can equip full mitigation/sustain/healing and out-survive a damage build 1v1, indefinitely. This shouldn't be possible. There shouldn't be heavy armor stam builds with crazy dps, healing, and mitigation, but there also shouldn't be tanks and healers that can't be killed by a full damage spec'd medium or light armor setup.

The real issue of the heavy armor meta is the CP. They need to overhaul the CP system, or reduce the cap in PVP down to 300-500 (or just remove it entirely in favor of NO-CP pvp, while making a pass at damage dealing proc sets to ensure balance across the board).

idk · September 2019

Delparis wrote: »

idk wrote: »

We now Zos will not do it because they will not have it work differently in PvE vs PvP.

Beyond that the solution is to simplistic for something that has much more going into it to make it so strong.

if you have a counterplay to those changes in passive i'm all ears.

I stated a simple fact. Zos has clearly said they will not have skills and passives work differently in PvE than they do in PvP. So suggesting something to perform differently in one environment than another is rather pointless without addressing Zos' stance.

So there is need for counter play. Your idea is dead in the water already.

Edit: Redlink pointed out that redspecter mentioned the real issue with tank builds in their post below this one. It is being able to be tanking and still do decent damage. OP does not try to address this at all. As I said, OP presents a fairly simplistic idea.

redlink1979 · September 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

as long as you can be both defensive and offensive at the same time

This is the PvP main issue.

Qbiken · September 2019

Delparis back at it again with another un-reasonable suggestion.......

FearlessOne_2014 · September 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make heavy armor very defensive at the cost of offense. Throw all sorts of offensive debuffs in there. You want 5+ heavy pieces? Take a 90% reduction on your outgoing damage.

I'm sure I'm being a bit excessive but my point is, as long as you can be both defensive and offensive at the same time, you'll see people flock to heavy so they get at least a few seconds of combat before they melt away. Let players be defensive but they shouldn't also be able to burst players down while wearing heavy gear.

redspecter23 · September 2019

Liam12548 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Make heavy armor very defensive at the cost of offense. Throw all sorts of offensive debuffs in there. You want 5+ heavy pieces? Take a 90% reduction on your outgoing damage.

I'm sure I'm being a bit excessive but my point is, as long as you can be both defensive and offensive at the same time, you'll see people flock to heavy so they get at least a few seconds of combat before they melt away. Let players be defensive but they shouldn't also be able to burst players down while wearing heavy gear.

This doesn't work though. As it stands, a player that wants to play to survive can equip full mitigation/sustain/healing and out-survive a damage build 1v1, indefinitely. This shouldn't be possible. There shouldn't be heavy armor stam builds with crazy dps, healing, and mitigation, but there also shouldn't be tanks and healers that can't be killed by a full damage spec'd medium or light armor setup.

The real issue of the heavy armor meta is the CP. They need to overhaul the CP system, or reduce the cap in PVP down to 300-500 (or just remove it entirely in favor of NO-CP pvp, while making a pass at damage dealing proc sets to ensure balance across the board).

My assumption is that cp will be dealt with eventually. We don't really know what they have planned for that yet. I'm not a huge fan of cp pvp myself anyway. It's hard to suggest a change to heavy armor without fully knowing what will be done with cp.

I think that we need a direction shift in how heavy armor is structured and we saw some of that with the recent update. Heavy armor sets with massive damage bonuses built in probably shouldn't have existed. Some of the best dps sets are heavy and that's likely not a good thing if you want players to be wearing medium and light armor.

Sorbin · September 2019

Heavy armor isn't the meta lol.

Zabulus · September 2019

rotaugen454 wrote: »

1 Make all armor sets give the same protection and set bonuses, regardless of type/weight
2 Make all skills give the same damage/heals regardless of class for the same cost
3 Make all weapons do exact same damage

There you go, balance. An incredibly boring game, but a balanced one.

An FPS game.

chrightt · September 2019

Not sure if you’re serious, but your suggestion looks heavily biased. Probably a medium armor player who doesn’t know how to medium armor properly. Meanwhile a lot of high end players still run medium over heavy (myself included) despite lots of people whining about medium sucking, since the trade off of more damage from medium is still superior to them. Your thread feels like trying to make heavy armor obsolete from PVP as it looks completely garbage and will also make tanks much more garbage in PVE. Pretty sure you don’t actually know all the armor and classes or just simply suck at the game. Heavy armor is more popular simply because it is easier to get into PVP without getting burst down within seconds. The proportion of people running heavy being slightly more than medium is perfectly fine. Just because a player is tankier doesn’t make them automatically a killing machine offensively.

Also, shuffle is vastly more usable than whatever the heavy armor armor skill is called.

Fur_like_snow · September 2019

None likes to be snared and the idea of a base movement speed penalty sounds like a perma snare. No thanks.

InvictusApollo · September 2019

Heavy armor is already ***. If anything it needs buffs, not nerfs. I can make every heavy armor build much better by using medium or even light armor and getting resistances from other sources.

MentalxHammer · September 2019

Else - dont you feel like the second most important passive is the healing taken?