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Nightblade skillchange ideas

Avrael
Avrael
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So, i recently picked up a nightblade again with which to play through the game again, and tho a lot of changes were already made, it could be like... SO much better.

Maybe important, i mainly play overworld and dungeons/pledges with my NB, no PvP, so im not going to think too much about that, although im sure it is important to consider that. But i cant say too much about PvP, so feel free to point those things out.

WARNING! A lot to read here! TL;DR: Ideas to change buffs around on some skills and change some skills entirely.


First of all my biggest issue, why does Drain Power and morphs get you the major brutality/sorcery buff, and that only when you hit enemies, and not something that makes sense, like Grim Focus? You already took the MINOR buffs AND the stam regen from that (even tho it still has the animation for the stam regen you lazy... people), and gave us the most useless stacking buff ive seen so far. 2% dmg reduction up to 5x, for a very limited amount of time and only when you hit enemies with normal attacks in that time... like, can someone tell me in which situation that would be usefull? Im serious, please tell me if that ever helped you.

Or you know, it could stay on Drain Power, but why not make it so you DONT have to hit enemies for the buff, so you can buff up BEFORE a fight, like any normal human being would do? The magicka morph heals you, even when you dont hit enemies, which makes absolutley no sense why you would have to hit enemies for the buff imo.

Also while im at it... why not make Grim Focus an always-on skill like Crystal Fragments or the change to Bound Armor on sorcerer? So if you hit 5 light or heavy attacks you get a cast of it. Then ofc it wouldnt get the major buffs.

Next thing is Malevolent Offering... like, WHO thought that skill was a good idea? The old one was already terrible, but the completley changed new one is even worse! Why not make it a darn heal for magicka, and/or a self heal that nb kinda REALLY needs? And dont even say something like "But Dark Cloak is a selfheal now" or "Just run Funnel Health on your stamblade that you need an enemie for to heal", i will literally smack you in the mouth.

Also, NB had like 4 diffrent ways to get Major Expedition in its own class lines back in the day, and i understand why it has only 1 now with Path of Darkness, but... why not give that buff to Blur again? Or at least to its morph Mirage, that noone uses, because Minor Resolve and Ward are worthless. So you could choose if you get snare immunity from Phantasmal Escape, or Expedition from Mirage. Or giving both of those buffs to Escape, and giving Mirage MAJOR Resolve and Ward, while changing the passive in the shadow tree to something more fitting.

Then you could also change Path of Darkness, for instance the unmorphed just does magic damage, Refreshing Path would give magic damage and healing again, and Twisted Path could become a stamina ability that deals poison dmg or something, so not EVERY SINGLE stamina build has to run Caltrops as a second dmg aoe next to Endless Hail.

Furthermore, i dont really understand whats up with the disease damage on NB... like, wouldnt poison dmg be a much better option for an assasin class? I know it makes little to no diffrence gameplay wise, but... it just seems odd to have an assasin not have a single posion dmg ability in their class lines, not ONE! All you would think they would have poison have disease instead. How about giving Necromancer some disease dmg skills, where it would really fit well?

Oh, and could we maybe get ONE stun ability again that you dont have to go invisible for first? Thanks. Like, Ambush or even Incap would really like their stun back i think... ofc only one of them if so, but still. And no, i will not use Soul Tether on a stamblade OR use Shadowy Disguise and then Suprise Attack to stun a single enemie, thanks.

Talking about Incap... why does Incapacitating Strike do disease damage and cast silence, but Soul Harvest does magic damage and cast defile, which sounds like it REALLY belongs to a skill that does disease damage, and silence REALLY sounds like it should be on a magicka skill? Just my opinion tho...

And lastly, a smaller idea, how about making Shadow Image or Dark Shade (i really dont care which) a stamina morph? Like, is anyone using Dark Shade? Ever? When you have the teleport and ranged attacks from Shadow Image?


Ok, thats it for now... sorry for the rant, and im sure most ideas here are stupid and useless, but i really just want to try and make bad things better... just tell me what you think, and your ideas for changes to some skills on NB.
Edited by Avrael on September 2, 2019 2:32AM
"I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."
  • Red_Feather
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    Shadow Image or Dark Shade scale to highest stat. It just costs magicka.
  • Lokey0024
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    Grim focus idea is good. Make it like molten whip up to 5 stacks with a duration that resets after X seconds then you can bow when 5 is obtained. If you use it as a buff give it expedition useable while stealthed.

    Would actually have a time limit to stay in the fight for bow instead of Light Attack 5 times from stealth and attempt a nuke.
  • AuraoftheAzureSea
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    Malovent offering isn't meant for DPS (I do have 4 nbs - 2 mag/stam dps, healer, and tank). It's for a healer and one of the only unique feeling nightblade healer skills besides refreshing paths, and if they change it I'll cry. Healthy offering is an absolutely amazing single target burst heal. If they made it a self heal (which doesn't make any sense, they might as well delete the skill and replace it with something else?? offering = costs health to restore someone else's, makes perfect sense for a health giving siphoning attack. It's one of the only unique abilities for a nightblade healer too). Stamina nightblades do not need another self heal - leeching strikes and vigor are all you need. Casting a shadow ability gives you major ward/resolve, we also have mirage(assassin) or blade cloak(DW) for mitigation and you have the option to keep up 5 stacks of grim focus so healing really should not be an issue.

    I kinda already pointed this out too but refreshing paths is the other unique NB class skill meant for healers and tanks, and no way does it need to be changed. They would not benefit from reducing the heal/buff and adding damage to it, not every ability needs to be tailored towards damage dealers. I run twisting paths on my magblade and refreshing paths is a main spammable for both my tank/healer - they don't need a damage morph for that. We don't need a stamina version of that skill; there's already not enough room on your bar for half of what you could run on your stamblade. I already have to choose between vigor and shades, and soul splitting trap and caltrops. People don't "have" to run caltrops as a second AoE because they're missing something, people just run it because it's good (or used to be). It wasn't unique or forced on nightblades, literally every stamina dd ran it. Notice that it's been taken off of pretty much every build since the nerf and replaced with soul splitting trap. Taking refreshing paths away from tanks/healers in favor of yet another stam morph we probably wouldn't even slot would be a garbage move.

    I agree that grim focus needs to be changed. In its current state, it is used for keeping up in solo situations - so you get 5 stacks and you don't proc the bow to keep up the damage mitigation. It really doesn't make sense since the bow procs are needed for dps. Having to choose between the two is pretty terrible since our dps is not in a great state anymore without it. And I agree about the changes to incap being garbage. I dunno what they were thinking. Oh wait, yes I do... thanks again PvP!

    Shades scales off of your highest stat (stamina in the current conversation) but costs magicka, which is excellent for our sustain. Or it was until they added soul splitting trap to our rotation (can't wait for that to be nerfed tbh).

    The disease/poison names don't really bother me. It's just a damage "type" so a sort of arbitrary stamina oriented debuff, they could have renamed it to be anything.

    To be honest, I was fine with how things worked before the changes to grim focus, surprise attack and incap (and the extra weapon damage for slotting flawless dawnbreaker). Even when they nerfed things, I didn't mind so much until they changed the meta to all of these single target dot managing. Nightblade doesn't even feel like a nightblade anymore. :c
  • AuraoftheAzureSea
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    Forgot to add, I also keep mirage up on my healer and tank nightblade. Considering I keep refreshing paths up, it means that I have both minor and major resolve/ward up pretty much all the time, plus the healing and the major expedition. Having major resolve/ward for that skill would be redundant on nightblades which is why they went with minor - now you can stack them. It's pretty great on a tank especially. I really would not want them to change it - again, not every skill is meant for damage dealers. DDs don't need mirage because mag has access to harness magicka and stam has blade cloak for DW... we probably wouldn't even slot it if they did change it, but tanks wouldn't be able to stack major/minor.
  • Avrael
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    Ok, your arguments make sense. Again, im just a fairly new NB user, so far only DD because im just soloing around in overworld, and i had not the insight of a NB Healer or Tank.

    Good to read some opinions and informations so i know skills that i thought useless or bad do have some uses now. But also good to read that you agree on some things.

    Just threw all of this out there because i was frustrated with things i thought could be made better for NB again. I could probably write paragraphs on other classes too, all have some useless skills, but atm i just wanted to have fun with NB again... and it just doesnt feel too fun for me anymore.
    "I mustache you a question."
    "Well shave it for later."
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Damage mitigation on grim focus is very useful, but given that it doesn't have offensive buffs anymore, 20 seconds duration is a joke. It should be 30 seconds at the very least.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    The mitigation buff from merciless stays with you as long as you’re in combat and you keep your stacks. Tanks and healers use it as a mitigation buff; build to 5 stacks and don’t fire the bow.

    In pvp it has applications for long engagements where you can build the stacks and keep them for 5 minutes plus.

    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    To me it looks like a quick fix change. I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed merciless again once they go over class passives. Since they’ve been trying to even the dps amongst classes NB passives ended up being a negative because they adjusted the base damage down on NB abilities and other classes up, so the passives ended up being an overall negative for the class. After adjusting NB abilities down passives were needed to not be lower dps but other classes were raised up to NB levels of overall dps while keeping their defensive passives.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 7, 2019 3:25AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • MehrunesFlagon
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    Another case of pvp taking something good away from pve.Never in my life complained about how squishy stamblade was. Trade one good tool for a complete piece of crap.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    Another case of pvp taking something good away from pve.Never in my life complained about how squishy stamblade was. Trade one good tool for a complete piece of crap.

    I think it’s exactly the opposite. Care Bears complained about only using NBs in trials so they reduced NB damage. That messed pvp up because other tanky classes were running around doing just as much damage as squishy classes.

    Merciless mitigation was added because they didn’t want to buff NB damage... /cough pve... and had to add something so the class was playable.

    There’s still fallout from all this pve balancing. NBs are more tanky because of changes but if you aren’t a class with good self healing (DKs, Wardens and Templars) you’re still at a disadvantage.

    People who pve love to blame pvp, but it’s actualy the exact opposite. Class tankiness/healing doesn’t matter to dps in trials, so buffing Templars, DK and Warden and bringing down NB made sense from a pve perspective. For pvp it makes zero sense.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    As an aside, the complaints about ‘every class feels the same’ is also because of pve. They did a lot of common sense changes like a dot doing more damage than a DD ability, or a single target ability doing more damage than an aoe... with some class based exceptions.

    I would have preferred some abilities that cost magicka to only scale with magicka, so magicka would end up being more dot oriented and stamina more direct damage oriented, but otherwise the current meta is a result of player complaints.

    People should be more thoughtful about what they ask for and think about the game consequences.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 7, 2019 4:07PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    Another case of pvp taking something good away from pve.Never in my life complained about how squishy stamblade was. Trade one good tool for a complete piece of crap.

    I think it’s exactly the opposite. Care Bears complained about only using NBs in trials so they reduced NB damage. That messed pvp up because other tanky classes were running around doing just as much damage as squishy classes.

    Merciless mitigation was added because they didn’t want to buff NB damage... /cough pve... and had to add something so the class was playable.

    There’s still fallout from all this pve balancing. NBs are more tanky because of changes but if you aren’t a class with good self healing (DKs, Wardens and Templars) you’re still at a disadvantage.

    People who pve love to blame pvp, but it’s actualy the exact opposite. Class tankiness/healing doesn’t matter to dps in trials, so buffing Templars, DK and Warden and bringing down NB made sense from a pve perspective. For pvp it makes zero sense.

    They could have adjusted the damage.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    Another case of pvp taking something good away from pve.Never in my life complained about how squishy stamblade was. Trade one good tool for a complete piece of crap.

    I think it’s exactly the opposite. Care Bears complained about only using NBs in trials so they reduced NB damage. That messed pvp up because other tanky classes were running around doing just as much damage as squishy classes.

    Merciless mitigation was added because they didn’t want to buff NB damage... /cough pve... and had to add something so the class was playable.

    There’s still fallout from all this pve balancing. NBs are more tanky because of changes but if you aren’t a class with good self healing (DKs, Wardens and Templars) you’re still at a disadvantage.

    People who pve love to blame pvp, but it’s actualy the exact opposite. Class tankiness/healing doesn’t matter to dps in trials, so buffing Templars, DK and Warden and bringing down NB made sense from a pve perspective. For pvp it makes zero sense.

    They could have adjusted the damage.

    They did, they adjusted NB damage down and other classes up. Damage is relatively the same single target now between classes, where there are differences is aoe and self healing.

    Idk how you can have every class do the same damage and at the same time have some classes being tankier and have better healing. I imagine that’s what the devs are struggling with now while trying to have a different feel on each class.
    Edited by Iskiab on September 7, 2019 7:14PM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    Another case of pvp taking something good away from pve.Never in my life complained about how squishy stamblade was. Trade one good tool for a complete piece of crap.

    I think it’s exactly the opposite. Care Bears complained about only using NBs in trials so they reduced NB damage. That messed pvp up because other tanky classes were running around doing just as much damage as squishy classes.

    Merciless mitigation was added because they didn’t want to buff NB damage... /cough pve... and had to add something so the class was playable.

    There’s still fallout from all this pve balancing. NBs are more tanky because of changes but if you aren’t a class with good self healing (DKs, Wardens and Templars) you’re still at a disadvantage.

    People who pve love to blame pvp, but it’s actualy the exact opposite. Class tankiness/healing doesn’t matter to dps in trials, so buffing Templars, DK and Warden and bringing down NB made sense from a pve perspective. For pvp it makes zero sense.

    They could have adjusted the damage.

    They did, they adjusted NB damage down and other classes up. Damage is relatively the same single target now between classes, where there are differences is aoe and self healing.

    Idk how you can have every class do the same damage and at the same time have some classes being tankier and have better healing. I imagine that’s what the devs are struggling with now while trying to have a different feel on each class.

    I wasn't talking about the class as a whole.Just merciless.
  • ThePedge
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    Give Leeching Strike Major Brutality

    Take away Xmas tree effect on Merciless Resolve

    Revert Incap change

    Revert Ult cast times

    Revert Faction Lock
  • kind_hero
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    The mitigation buff from merciless stays with you as long as you’re in combat and you keep your stacks. Tanks and healers use it as a mitigation buff; build to 5 stacks and don’t fire the bow.

    In pvp it has applications for long engagements where you can build the stacks and keep them for 5 minutes plus.

    I think merciless mitigation was given to NBs because NBs have zero defensive passives. NBs were weak defensively and needed something to bring them up to other classes in pvp.

    To me it looks like a quick fix change. I wouldn’t be surprised if they changed merciless again once they go over class passives.

    True, the NB needed some defence, but they picked the wrong ability to offer that. The ability named "merciless" should buff your damage output, not your defence. From my experience (and I play a NB for a lot of time), 5 stacks are to much outside PvE group content. Also, in PvP things get so chaotic you don't get to use the bow properly or the stacks (probably this is why they added the defence bonus). IMO 4 stacks would be enough or get two stacks if your LA crits.

    To be honest I would like the bow to be like the sorc overload. You shoot the bow until your ulti is spent. But probably it is to late to change that now.

    Defensive abilities like Blur should get more defence if you do damage or whatever. The NB has few burst damage abilities, mostly are damage over time, this is why I find sorc more fun in terms of combat.

    [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
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