Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – March 26, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

Does Undaunted Infiltrator proc on every hit of a heavy attack channel?

RiskyChalice863
RiskyChalice863
✭✭✭
Does the extra heavy attack damage that Undaunted Infiltrator provides proc on every hit of a heavy attack channel?

I ask because it occurs to me that, if it did, you could put together a pretty effective lightning staff heavy attack build—especially if you put it alongside the Infallible Mage set, or maybe something easier to get like Queen’s Elegance or infused Torug’s Pact. Adding the Maelstrom staff to that could potentially make it even more effective. I think it would probably work best on a Dragonknight, in conjunction with Molten Armaments for the higher heavy attack damage. It would probably also work well with Warden, since Wardens have lots of passive damage bonuses you could slot on the bar you’re heavy attacking on, and they have really good healing synergy with this through Lotus Blossom. Maybe Sorcs as well. I realize there’s essentially no way it’d be competitive for single-target PvE DPS, but I think it could be very strong in PvP, and it would shred groups of mobs.

But I don’t want to bother farming the Undaunted Infiltrator set if this just won’t really work properly.

I theorycrafted a version of this on the UESP ESO Build Editor, and that website indicates to me that this would actually work pretty well, since Undaunted Infiltrator massively buffs the damage stats listed for heavy attacks. For instance, I put together a Dragonknight build using Undaunted Infiltrator and Infallible Mage, and the base damage value listed for a lightning heavy attack was just over 23,000. And that’s with a spell penetration mundus stone (i.e. not a mundus that would increase the damage value listed), an entirely defensive monster set, only epic level gear rather than legendary, and a couple glyphs that didn’t go towards damage. The damage goes up to over 31,000 if you run a Maelstrom Staff on one bar and are heavy attacking in a wall of elements. This sort of damage suggests to me that Undaunted Infiltrator must proc on every hit of a heavy attack channel, but I’m not certain.

  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
    ✭✭✭
    EDIT: I’ll note that the damage numbers I listed above are without any CP. I’d primarily want to use it in BGs. A 23k heavy attack is quite a lot in no CP, especially since lightning heavy attacks are AOE.
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
    Joosef_Kivikilpi
    ✭✭✭✭
    Undaunted Infiltrator, Undaunted Unweaver, VMA Lightning, Iceheart/Zaan. Nightblade with Assassin Will and Siphoning Attacks. Soul Harvest for 20% damage boost. It gets nasty, man. Used to run the build a time ago and loved it.
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes this has been a thing for quite some time. Zynode is probably the most famous with his easy mode sorc videos recommending exactly the gear you mention. I've been using those 2 sets for some time and mostly heavy attacking. With the right mundus and CP, it is quite good. I don't light attack weave or even bar swap, and I'm sure I'll be able to pass any content in the game. You're right about not putting out the best single-target, but if you bar swap and play similar to Zynode you'll get 40K+ dps like he does I imagine. The only thing I have left to do is transmute a few of the gear pieces since UI doesn't come with the proper traits, and get the Maelstrom staff, and my damage will be much higher. I believe UI does affect every tick. And I slot both Inner Light and Bound Aegis to get +13% magic because that affects lightning staff heavy attacks also. Both magic and spell damage do. It's possible the other class you mentioned can get better lightning staff HA but I'm a mag sorc. and it's probably no worse than second best.

    IMO the right way to do it is decide how you like to play. If you're wanting to heavy attack mostly, these 2 sets are probably best with the Maelstrom staff and using WOE. If you like using other skills instead of mostly heavy attacking, you want to tailor your gear to buff those skills. Many people these days like a set that boots crit. chance like Mother's Sorrow or Twice Born Star (Crit chance and damage mundus there). Because crit. affects just about everything. For overall damage maybe now Elemental Succession is best? I imagine if you combine MS and ES sets you'd be pretty well off. And people are using Perfected False God's Devotion set for sustain, especially in places like vMA if they're using lots of magic skills and not heavy attacking much to get magic back.
    Edited by malistorr on August 28, 2019 10:52PM
  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
    ✭✭✭
    I can confirm now that Undaunted Infiltrator affects every tick. I farmed 5 pieces of gear for it and tested it. Of course, what I farmed is a far cry from what you really want to farm to use the set effectively (you basically need to have it on only weapons and jewelry—which will take forever to farm), but at least I know it works.
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    Yep it does. Without the useless 4pc bonus it would actually be a good set.
    PC EU

    All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
  • Kaartinen
    Kaartinen
    ✭✭✭
    I was about to link the Easy Sorc build.
  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
    ✭✭✭
    In my searching about this—as well as people’s comments here—I gather the consensus is that Sorc is the best for this. Can anyone explain to me why a Sorcerer is better for this sort of build than a Dragonknight?

    The way I see it, the Sorc has a few advantages over the DK for this: (1) a 5% damage bonus to shock attacks; (2) other shock damage abilities besides Wall of Elements, which leads to a higher chance of proccing off-balance—which gives a 70% damage boost to heavy attacks; (3) Crit Surge makes passively healing while heavy attacking easier than on a DK; (4) the Storm Calling tree has a couple other damage passives that help any build, including one like this; and (5) having more ranged abilities, which synergizes well with a heavy attack build that doesn’t necessarily want/need to be in close range.

    But DKs get a massive 50% damage boost to heavy attacks from Molten Armaments. In order to actually do as much damage with the heavy attacks, the Sorc would need to have off balance up on enemies way more than the DK. And while the Sorc should be able to proc off balance more due to having other sources of shock damage, I don’t think there’d be a huge difference.

    For one, against PvE bosses, the off balance cooldown means you can only have off balance up like 20% of the time (and DKs can proc it a decent bit themselves anyways, so we’re not talking 0% vs. 20% uptime). So, in that scenario, I don’t think it’s possible for Sorcs to do as much damage overall as DKs, since DKs will have a 50% damage buff up all the time. In fact, I think DKs would be comfortably ahead. In PvP, I don’t really think Sorcs will be able to proc off balance more than the DK. For a Sorc to get off balance procced, they need people to stand in their Wall of Elements, which isn’t so common in PvP. And even if they did do that, the DK can proc it that way too. The difference is just that the Sorc can proc concussed (and therefore Off Balance if they’re in the Wall of Elements too) more often due to abilities like Boundless Storm and Liquid Lightning. But those abilities are avoidable in PvP (particularly Liquid Lightning) and, in any event, they only provide a small chance every second to concuss and then you need them to be in the Wall of Elements to then get off balance. On the other hand, DKs can pretty reliably proc off balance in PvP with a Fossilize —> Flame Lash combo. Yes, that requires being in close range, but Boundless Storm requires that too. So, in PvP, I basically think DKs can essentially have a 50% damage boost over Sorcs AND would have way higher uptime of the 70% boost from Off Balance. This only leaves PvE against groups of mobs. These are typically easier scenarios so I feel like they’re less important than the other two. But even then, I doubt Sorcs would have such an advantage in Off Balance uptime that that extra uptime combined with their other relevant damage passives would outweigh the DK’s permanent 50% bonus.

    Of course, that ignores the point about DKs not having passive healing as strong as Crit Surge. And it may be true that the rest of the Sorc’s kit in terms of DPS synergizes better with a ranged build. But there are multiple strong non-class DOTs now, Force Pulse is a pretty good spammable this patch, and Eruption is really strong particularly in a static fight (with its high cost being pretty irrelevant to a heavy attack build). So I don’t really think the DK is harmed too much by having less ranged options within its class kit.

    EDIT: I note that I realize the exploiter passive can essentially mean that heavy attacks have an 80% boost to off balance enemies, rather than 70%. I don’t think that really changes any of the above, though it’s a minor relative help to Sorcs in PvE due to their ability to get higher off balance uptime, and probably a minor help to DKs in PvP for the same reason. I also recognize that Sorcs being able to proc concussed more means more minor vulnerability uptime—which is nice. But if you’re using Infallible Mage—which I believe is what the Easy Sorc build does—then that’s kind of irrelevant since you can basically have minor vulnerability up all the time.
    Edited by RiskyChalice863 on August 30, 2019 6:40PM
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    I wonder what the cooldown is for off balance now? I saw that for bosses someone said it was 5-seconds on and then 20-seconds off. I wonder now if it's 7-seconds on and 20-off?
    And what is it for ads/mobs? And is that affected by using different traits on say a lightning staff?
    Edited by malistorr on August 30, 2019 8:19PM
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    malistorr wrote: »
    Where are you getting 20% uptime on off-balance from?

    Off-balance used to last 5 seconds then have a 20 second cooldown. 5 / (5 + 20) = 20%. I believe Scalebreaker changed that to 7 seconds and 20 second cooldown. So it is now 7 / (7 + 20) = 26%.

    That is bosses only. I think trash mobs and other players have a different cooldown.
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    malistorr wrote: »
    Where are you getting 20% uptime on off-balance from?

    Off-balance used to last 5 seconds then have a 20 second cooldown. 5 / (5 + 20) = 20%. I believe Scalebreaker changed that to 7 seconds and 20 second cooldown. So it is now 7 / (7 + 20) = 26%.

    That is bosses only. I think trash mobs and other players have a different cooldown.

    The cool down is still 20 seconds, so you can have 35% uptime on off balance now, 7/20.
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    I think it used to be 5-on, 20-off for bosses, at least that's what I read somewhere. Is it now 7-on, and 20-off? If so, that's closer to 25%.
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    off balance was 5 second on, 15 second off, with a possible uptime of 25%, see here-

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820516/#Comment_4820516
    Adjusted the length of time bosses are immune to the Off Balance debuff to 15 seconds, previously 15 to 20 seconds.

    Developer Comment:

    We want to make it easier to predict when the Off Balance debuff will occur. Since Off Balance is typically random, this will reduce the number of random factors surrounding the frequency of Off Balance occurrences. The predictability will make it easier to respond to Off Balance with a specific high-damage ability or a Heavy Attack.

    it is now 7 seconds uptime, see here-

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6265073/#Comment_6265073
    Increased the duration of the Off-Balance effect on all of its player sources to 7 seconds from 5 seconds to improve the window it may be interacted with.


    now whether or not it is still 15 seconds(that is 7 seconds with 15 second cooldown, leading to a 31% uptime) or 7 seconds followed by a cooldown of 20 seconds, like it was, that starts from the time the off balance happens(which would be 7 seconds of off balance followed by 13 seconds of down time, or 35% uptime) i am not real sure about.
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the info. Then what I read was wrong. Not surprised. There is no good authoritative source for a lot of this stuff, or it's just too damn hard to find. What is it for ads/mobs since this was for bosses? And what is it for the big bonus to Elemental Succession? The description ESO gives is very confusing. I've heard it's 4-seconds on and can happen again immediately, and I've heard it's got a cooldown of 4-seconds as well.
    Edited by malistorr on August 30, 2019 10:11PM
  • OG_Kaveman
    OG_Kaveman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    malistorr wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. Then what I read was wrong. Not surprised. There is no good authoritative source for a lot of this stuff, or it's just too damn hard to find. What is it for ads/mobs since this was for bosses?

    pro tip, use the search bar uptop and when you do put "ZOS_GinaBruno" as the author. really is the best way to find patch notes changes.
  • Masel
    Masel
    Class Representative
    OG_Kaveman wrote: »
    malistorr wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. Then what I read was wrong. Not surprised. There is no good authoritative source for a lot of this stuff, or it's just too damn hard to find. What is it for ads/mobs since this was for bosses?

    pro tip, use the search bar uptop and when you do put "ZOS_GinaBruno" as the author. really is the best way to find patch notes changes.
    There's also the dev tracker, which you can find under this link:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/tracker

    PC EU

    All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!

    Youtube:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA
  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
    ✭✭✭
    Ah I stand corrected regarding the total possible off balance uptime. For some reason, I read the Scalebreaker patch notes to say that off-balance now lasts 7 seconds against player targets (i.e. your off balance procs would be 7 seconds in PvP and 5 seconds in PvE), but I see now the patch notes say “increased the duration of the Off-Balance effect on all of its player sources.” That’s a bit ambiguous, but I gather that it means if players create off balance then it lasts 7 seconds (i.e. if you proc it, it’s 7 seconds regardless of if it’s in PvP or PvE).

    I still think DK is better than Sorc for this though.

    Also, I imagine you could get some pretty solid PvE DPS numbers with this even without needing to have farmed Infallible Mage (which obviously is a trial set). Undaunted Infiltrator + Undaunted Unweaver (with Unweaver being procced by Beast Trap—which is worth using anyways) seems like it’d be pretty solid. A lot of the set bonuses are not very good (though the stamina bonuses on Unweaver aren’t completely useless since stamina is always welcome), but the extra damage on each tick of a heavy attack is really quite massive. I did a quick attempt on paper (the UESP build editor) to quantify it, and came up with those sets *each* adding roughly 10,000 damage per second (not total damage per heavy attack, but damage per second while heavy attacking) to your heavy attacks if you’re fully buffed, and I allocated the CP really haphazardly so I’m sure it could be optimized to get a bit higher. It would probably be more like 8,000 extra damage per second against bosses due to the off balance cooldown. That’s quite a lot of extra damage, especially given that it’s an AOE. Obviously, you can’t necessarily reach absolutely massive single target DPS numbers with such a build, but the rotation would be dead easy, so it probably would be close to ideal for many players.
    Edited by RiskyChalice863 on August 31, 2019 6:36PM
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    The build editor may have its uses, I just don't believe what it told me about my heavy attack damage. I put in my whole setup and it said I should have been hitting for like 35k damage (I think per tick). I don't think it accounts for things like spell penetration, or at least maybe I'd have to take extra time to put in even more information. There are just so many variables out in the real game. I guess it's good for finding out what could be best, but I doubt it's 100% accurate.
  • RiskyChalice863
    RiskyChalice863
    ✭✭✭
    malistorr wrote: »
    The build editor may have its uses, I just don't believe what it told me about my heavy attack damage. I put in my whole setup and it said I should have been hitting for like 35k damage (I think per tick). I don't think it accounts for things like spell penetration, or at least maybe I'd have to take extra time to put in even more information. There are just so many variables out in the real game. I guess it's good for finding out what could be best, but I doubt it's 100% accurate.

    That may be right. But I think the build editor’s heavy atttack damage listed is total damage. As in, that’d be the total for every tick. The formula certainly indicates that to me.

  • Grianasteri
    Grianasteri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Haha, this fellow has stumbled across the Easy Sorc build.

    I've been running my own variations of the Easy Sorc for years, its awesome (if somewhat more squishy since Scalebreaker changes)

    So yeah, slot Infallible and Undaunted and heavy attack into wall of elements with a lightning staff :)
  • malistorr
    malistorr
    ✭✭✭✭
    If it's total damage for all 4 ticks, I still think it's far from accurate. Or at least it doesn't account for crit. hits or something like that. I got it to show me 35K once, and I don't have a Maelstrom staff. Problem is I've hit as high as 20K for each tick. So maybe it can't account for concussion and off balance and/or crit hits I guess. It's just showing base damage with not all real game factors and possibilities accounted for. I'm sure it's useful for comparing builds but you'll just see very different results in game.
Sign In or Register to comment.