Are all endgame builds similar?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.Edited by HowlKimchi on September 2, 2019 2:53PM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.
If you're talking pre-1.6, when Softcaps were still a thing, then, yeah, but that was because stam and mag weren't really a thing the way they are now. Everyone ran hybrids of some variety because there was no point to overstacking in a single stat, you'd overcharge and get severe diminishing returns.Edited by starkerealm on September 2, 2019 3:01PM3 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can see it in PVP as well. Before, magplars had a unique CC in the form of blazing spear stunning one target in the aoe, while sorcs had a CC in crystal frags. I wouldn't say those two were terribly OP. But because "ranged aoe dot skills shouldn't have a cc tied to it" even though it was unreliable when hitting more than one person; and "strong burst skills shouldn't have a CC tied to it" even though it was extremely telegraphed, the two skills were dumbed down.1 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.
If you're talking pre-1.6, when Softcaps were still a thing, then, yeah, but that was because stam and mag weren't really a thing the way they are now. Everyone ran hybrids of some variety because there was no point to overstacking in a single stat, you'd overcharge and get severe diminishing returns.
No im not talking about softcaps.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.starkerealm wrote: »I think the fundamental problem is the ridiculous limit of 5 skills at a time, to accommodate console controllers.
Everybody is limited to just a handful of skills, and most people end up with the same ones. If you went magic, you are using a staff. So you have one or two staff skills. Maybe one or two class skills. Oops, that's all you get.
You went stamina? Ok, one or two weapon skills, and one or two class skills. Ooops, that's all you get.
No. the problem isn't the cap of 12 skills that can be slotted at a time. That's plenty for a non tab-target action mmo. The problem is the devs choosing to go through the path of least resistance in terms of balance.
i.e: "man balancing unique class mechanics is hard, lets just nerf these class mechanics and make the skills accesible to every class bis.... There everyone is dealing similar damage by using the generic skills! Balance!!!"
In fairness, I don't think the goal was to make those skills the best, I think they were to ensure that all classes had access to basic elements of a toolkit, without needing to worry that... for example, every class had a taunt, or every class had a click heal. What ended up happening was those class agnostic abilities slipped past balance reviews, because the focus appears to have been on class vs class, and not the overall skill sets available outside of those classes. ZOS is clearly aware the core abilities exist, but they've been hesitant to mess with them too much, in comparison to the class lines.
The end result has been that the general abilities appear to have been mostly overlooked in previous balance passes.
I'm actually talking about a time before these recent patches. Somewhere around the time CPs were new. Classes were very varied then. For example, there was a build focusing on power overload ult back when ult cap was 1000. I'm not saying that the game was extremely balanced though. All I'm saying is that classes felt unique at that time.
If you're talking pre-1.6, when Softcaps were still a thing, then, yeah, but that was because stam and mag weren't really a thing the way they are now. Everyone ran hybrids of some variety because there was no point to overstacking in a single stat, you'd overcharge and get severe diminishing returns.
No im not talking about softcaps.
If you're talking about back when CP was added to the game, that's when soft caps were removed. Those both changed in the same patch. There was a wave of balance changes that followed those over the next couple months, including the level cap going to V16 with Imperial City. Unfortunately, IC also brought horrific load screens for me, so I took some time from the game and came back just before Dark Brotherhood released.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »I'm no expert, in this game, but I believe in building according to how I think things should be, not how they are and I don't care if it's not, currently, optimal to do so.
This will lead you to making fundamental mistakes with games. I should know. That's how I tended to approach games when I was in my teens.In my opinion, a DPS in a 5 active skills (at a time) game, should have, on each bar:
1. A dot.
2. A spammable (ideally, a class specific one, for flavour).
3. A self heal.
4. An AOE (ranged, or melee).
5. An immobilise/slow (ranged), or gap closer (melee).
I know that isn't how this game is built to be, but it should be.
1 through 4 are fine. Though, honestly, you probably only need 3 on one bar, and can add a buff on the other bar. 1 and 4 are a bit more complicated, because they'll frequently overlap. For example, a sorc is likely to use Liquid Lightning and Wall of Zap. Both are ground based AoEs, that will deal damage over time (though they're not true DoTs.)
Ranged #5 is where you went off the reservation and deserve to be kicked from groups.
So, Crowd Control is the tank's job. I don't care if you want to do it as the DPS, it is not your job, and it will sabotage the group.
When you CC a target, that target gains CC immunity. When the DPS CCs a trash add, that means the Tank cannot manage or reposition them properly.
With #5, you are actively working against your group and messing with the tank. Your ranged #5 will cause wipes in some content. In other content, you will only succeed in making life extremely unpleasant for the tank.
Your melee #5 will get you killed. So, that's fine. It's unnecessary in most situations for the DPS, but, I mean, that's a self correcting problem.
Well, I "went off the reservation" on purpose.
You're taking about what is, currently, the case.
Whereas, I'm saying what I think should be the case.
I'm not trying to imply that, if it became mandatory to have a immobilise/slow/gap closer on your bars it should be used in all situations.
I'm saying that a slot should be taken up by that, even if it shouldn't always be used.
Also, the way these things work can be changed - they don't have to cause CC immunity, in PVE.
That is a choice the devs made, for whatever reason (probably PVP-related).
I'm saying that, if you want true build diversity and balance, you need to make the whole thing far more organised and less completely free choice.
Not because freedom isn't good, but because otherwise, you end up where we find ourselves, with only one "right" answer, for every class.
This has happened in virtually every game, to one extent, or another.
So-called freedom ends in no, or very little, diversity.
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭By the way, I'm not in my teens...
I just don't feel any need to do as I'm told by games devs who, quite frankly, don't seem to have much of a clue.
I raided in WoW, which is a better game in this way, I don't need to do trials here.Edited by Tigerseye on September 2, 2019 3:21PM0 -
r34lian✭✭✭✭✭
✭The builds that you mostly see are meant for parses to get high numbers on skeleton I doubt they use same builds when they doing endgame stuff.2000 CP • 18 Maxed Characters • 6 Altmers • 7 Redguards • Necromancer Orc • Warden Dunmer • DK Nord • DK Imperial • Templar Breton0 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭If you look for endgame diversity and class identity dont play this game.
This.. and this will be the downfall of the eso. It is absolute joke at the moment and really can't understand what they are doing with the game. It is mind boggling and in the end guess can be thankful since have much more free time on the hands due to this.
PvP have more diversity and even that don't have that much of it... add the abysmal performance on the servers (console and pc.. both pvp and pve) and there you have it. Think twice before you start spending too much time with this product. It is an utter mess to put it kindly at the moment.
Personally would recommend very casual approach at best but each of our own.Edited by Miswar on September 2, 2019 3:41PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭By the way, I'm not in my teens...
I didn't say you were, I simply said that I engaged in that kind of behavior when I was in my teens. It's okay, I understand that not everyone matures at the same rate. I also understand that not everyone grasps the importance of being a team player in group content.That is a choice the devs made, for whatever reason (probably PVP-related).
It was, in fact, PvE related, as players do not inherit the same CC immunities that NPCs possess. This was because it was possible to stunlock enemies while you killed them. At one point, this vulnerability even extended to bosses. This was a game where you could, at one time, stunlock dungeon bosses, and breeze through the most challenging content.I raided in WoW, which is a better game in this way, I don't need to do trials here.
Yes, "Herd 40 Cats and wipe on trash for six hours," is a vastly superior experience.
Unless, of course, you mean, you want to play ESO as if it's WoW. In that case, I regret to inform you, but ESO isn't WoW. If you're sitting there trying to play it like it's WoW, you will have a substandard experience.I just don't feel any need to do as I'm told by games devs who, quite frankly, don't seem to have much of a clue.
So, given Rich and his team understand the game they're making, and you're trying to play ESO like it's WoW... I think, of the two options, they have a slightly better grasp of the game we're all playing here.Edited by starkerealm on September 2, 2019 3:58PM1 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭We all use just about the same skills and then use 3-5 class skills and usually 1 class ultimate
Were all fairly similar and every class is viable for end game dps. Its a step in the right direction.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheUrbanWizard wrote: »Pvp is different, much more diversity and unique builds that fit individual play styles,
^This.^
PvP is way more diverse in builds for end game.1 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Role should be more significant than class, Prove me wrong!
The way it is now is not perfect but its a step in the right direction.
Parses are much closer, each class brings something unique to the group but its not mandatory and there are no defacto damage dealers.
Tanking and healing class skills need similar treatment.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Role should be more significant than class, Prove me wrong!
The way it is now is not perfect but its a step in the right direction.
Parses are much closer, each class brings something unique to the group but its not mandatory and there are no defacto damage dealers.
Tanking and healing class skills need similar treatment.
Originally, class and role were identical.
DK=tank
Templar=healer
Sorc=DD
NB=DD
It was all very simple and the two damage classes were very distinct in style.
The biggest changes happened when the removal of softcaps created the stam/magicka split we have now, and when ZOS decided to move towards "every class can tank, heal, and DPS in their own special, but not as effective way".
It wasnt helped by ZOS gutting some of the more effective ways that other classes could fill those roles. Remember the uniquely Nightblade Sap Tank?3 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »Role should be more significant than class, Prove me wrong!
The way it is now is not perfect but its a step in the right direction.
Parses are much closer, each class brings something unique to the group but its not mandatory and there are no defacto damage dealers.
Tanking and healing class skills need similar treatment.
Originally, class and role were identical.
DK=tank
Templar=healer
Sorc=DD
NB=DD
It was all very simple and the two damage classes were very distinct in style.
The biggest changes happened when the removal of softcaps created the stam/magicka split we have now, and when ZOS decided to move towards "every class can tank, heal, and DPS in their own special, but not as effective way".
It wasnt helped by ZOS gutting some of the more effective ways that other classes could fill those roles. Remember the uniquely Nightblade Sap Tank?
Absolutely, those were awful times, it got really out of hand.
I know lead combat designer was dropped on wrobble but (judging from patch to patch for years) he really let this game wallow in a lull when it was still a fairly young game and easier to sell. I dont know what was going on behind closed doors but the end result was a giant mess that wheeler inherited.0 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kralskritek wrote: »Hello,
I am fairly new player and I dont have any character max leveled. But I was interested in end-game builds so I decided to look up some.
My main is DPS stamplar, so I found this build:
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-templar-build-pve/
There are only 3 class based skills (and all mostly buffs), which fairly sucks to be honest, I enjoy templar skills (like jabs).
Ok, so I tried another build - warden
https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-warden-build-pve/
Again, 4 skills and the other skills are almost identical as the skills in the templar build...
DK - https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-build-pve/
Again, 4 unique skilss and the rest very similar as all stamina builds...
I really enjoy the game because of the class diversity... I have 3 chars at lvl 30 magicka templar, stamina templar, and DK, warden.
I am using as much as possible of the class skills right now and that feels like you really play unique class and that is what I find extremely enjoyable.
But i am also interested in end game content (group content, not housing) and meta builds for raids/dungeons are awfuly similiar for stamina classes. I dont know how it is
for magicka, but... i am fairly dissapointed..
How endgame builds works? Do you have to follow the best dps builds in order to be useful in trials? Or are the builds somehow different?
If the game cannot offer me some kind of build diversity, I will not enjoy the end game and that means, i will not enjoy this game to carry on...
How is it with magicka based classes? Is is the same story? And pvp? Same meta builds without big diversity?
As I said, I enjoy most group-content and experimenting with all classes and builds... but this really scares me...
Do you enjoy playing the same skills all over? That is question for people who have been playing ESO for x years?
Would you recommend some classes and type (magicka x stamina) where the meta builds for PvE are diverse? I would definitely play them..
Thank you
Of all people you used Alcast as an example, who copies the same 2 builds (1 sta, 1 ma) to all classes.
No they are not all "end game" builds the same. Look at Xynode for good IDEAS then build what suits you better with your race/class you have and how you want to play.
And except if you chase leader boards rankings with set group of same minded people, it doesn't matter if you do 30K or 40K or 80K. As long as you do over 20K dps and know the mechanics you are fine.0 -
mystfit✭✭✭
I gotta say I was using Allcast until I accidentally stumbled onto Xynode and found a build I reallllly like and feel connected to for my class. I have no idea how it compares, I am doing beginning end game stuff where I'm not pushed into a corner and if it means I can' do the biggest and best stuff, I'm ok with that. I'd rather play a class that makes me happy.
And his video helped me understand how it was all connected together, making me more confident in the future to make some tweaks as needed.
Edited by mystfit on September 2, 2019 5:33PM2 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I gotta say I was using Allcast until I accidentally stumbled onto Xynode and found a build I reallllly like and feel connected to for my class. I have no idea how it compares, I am doing beginning end game stuff where I'm not pushed into a corner and if it means I can' do the biggest and best stuff, I'm ok with that. I'd rather play a class that makes me happy.
And his video helped me understand how it was all connected together, making me more confident in the future to make some tweaks as needed.
Yep. Xynode makes proper builds around the class. Not a generic build copied over from Magicka DK & Stamina NB to suit all the classes.
And has good PVP builds also, at least give you great ideas for tweaking around your class & raceEdited by p_tsakirisb16_ESO on September 2, 2019 5:37PM0 -
ShellaSunshine✭✭✭Endgame builds are only the same if you follow the guides exactly while using the suggested race and class choice.
I'm currently running a non-meta Nord stamDK DD with Bone Pirate's Tatters (blackheart haven dungeon) and Witchman Armor (overland: the rift) while using the free crown refreshing drinks provided to us through the daily login bonus.
With all purple gear I can hit 35k single target dps (I could probably get higher if I had gold gear and the artaeum takeaway broth). I know stamina players can hit super high dps but being a Nord is making things challenging. I do like a challenge.
Because I chose Nord instead of the suggested races provided by Alcast and other player guides, I cannot use the recommended builds as Nords do not have any sustain bonuses and have less added stamina than the other racial choices. I tried using the suggested sets but even with the artaeum takeaway broth and weapon crit potions, I had zero sustain.
So, I had to get creative. BP gives me extra stamina, the free crown refreshing drinks gives me extra recovery, and the witchman armor adds to my DK Battle Roar passive by giving me extra health and stamina when I use an ultimate. This puts me on an almost equal footing as the redguard. I now have good enough sustain that I can still use the shadow mundus stone.
I do switch out BP for hide of the werewolf set (overland: glenumbra) when I do veteran dungeons or dlc dungeons so I can get extra health and faster ultimate regeneration. This saves my life in more ways than one.
There are tons of sets out in the game to where you can have a non-meta build that can hit numbers just as close as the meta race builds. You just have to compare the differences between the choices and make up for it with the sets.
I even made an Orc Sorc healer that has crazy sustain and could do vet trials. The extra hp and stamina keeps me alive and able to roll dodge more often than my Breton Templar healer.
It's okay to follow the guides, I did until I started researching different sets and kept the ones that worked for me. You do have to make sure that the sets that you choose synergize with each other and with your racial and class passives.
You do not have to be locked down to a meta build. I've seen tons of non-meta builds in veteran trials. The guides are there for people who want to maximize the utility of their race, class, and gear choices or to understand how to make a build for themselves.
Final note: I did run into a stamina Khajiit Warden healer in vHRC last night. He went upstairs and no one died. Stamina healers are few and far between. It was actually quite refreshing to run into one in a PUG trial.1 -
Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't be fooled, even most pvp builds are exactly the same.
Magicka classes have some identity, but stamina classes, for the most part, are exactly the same.
But there aren't any other mmos worth playing out right now.0 -
Grandma✭✭✭✭✭yeah.
all mag dpds builds are the same; MS with Siroria for easier /less mobile fights, and FGD where you can't use siroria, with zaans/ 2pc spell crit for range.
all stam dps are the same; relequen + lokk + maarselok/velidreth or the vma dw instead of monster sets.
every tank and heal build is the same gear.
My point is that all end game builds are the same gear. There is no gear restriction by class, or class specific gear/weapons, so if something is optimal, it's optimal for everyone. This is fine honestly, because there's still tons of other options that while being less optimal are still totally viable. The true difference in end game builds is the class skills involved, which currently isn't super diverse. ZOS is aware of this though, and is working hard to bring back class flavor in full force starting with dragonhold.GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Canned_Apples wrote: »Don't be fooled, even most pvp builds are exactly the same.
Magicka classes have some identity, but stamina classes, for the most part, are exactly the same.
But there aren't any other mmos worth playing out right now.
Uh no.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don’t race to the end, enjoy the journey. Stop chasing BIS every update and you will be happier for it. Honestly as long as you are effective in whatever content you are playing most others really want care what you are running or using to do it with.
Sure there is a time for chasing BIS and running particular sets, builds and rotations but it really is just a small part of the overall game. Again play as you want and have fun along the way.
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starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Class, racial, and skill line passives should not be changed almost every major dlc or patch. It's starting to wear thin with people. Make a build and then 2 months later its screwed up and you have to start over.
If they werent so quick with their changes and spread them out over a period of time it wouldn't be as bad. But recently they want to change everything in one dlc. Then in a few months they are doing it again.
Very frustrating and I guess that's why some people have taken a break or left for good.
I've been taking a break until the skills change again, next month they're do to change I believe
. "We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."0 -
mitchtheelder✭✭✭they are simple afAD Orc Nightblade - Manndingo, High Elf Templar - M Mike Adriano Nord Dragonknight - Ser-Gregor Clegane
High elf Sorcerer - Grand Maester Mitch Dark elf Nightblade - Gilbert Arenas Redguard Dragonknight - Half Man Half Amazing Redguard Sorcerer - Uncle Drew High Elf Dragonknight - Devon Larrat Imperial Warden - Sandor Clegane M Nord Necromancer - Tormund Husband to Bears High Elf Necromancer - Ana Maria della Salute High Elf - Warden - Samuel F Jackson Argonian - Templar - Kraken Reptile DC Argonian Warden - Gustavo Giviria Rivero High elf Sorcerer - Jackie Kennedy Orc Necromancer - Lucifer Blackstar EP Redguard Templar - MItch Buchanon
PC-EU since Feb2016 (+8k h in game)0
