Shift in community attitude over the last two years
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cheifsoap✭✭✭✭✭
Are we though? Does purchasing a product give one the right to degrade and insult the manufacturer? (Not saying you personally but anyone in general.) People are entitled to get what they pay for, sure, but toxic and insulting posts will not get anyone anywhere. These are just people trying to do a job. If everyone was a bit more sympathetic of this fact we might actually get a bit more communication. I’m sure they are not sitting back trying to degrade performance, and figure out how best to upset the community.Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Ummmmm been here since beta, this community has always been a toxic hellhole of trolls and crybabies.
Absolutely dead on. Have been here since beta as well. I remember the uproar over the API at launch. Entitled, toxic people that post completely hostile and insulting rants directed at the developers and then wonder why responses are limited !
You realize that as a customer of a product, such as ESO; you are allowed to be entitled? I mean, this is how this whole services industry/consumer process works. I fail to understand your gripe against the customer.
People are absolutely entitled to a functional product. How they articulate their dissatisfaction is on them; some are classier than other but yeah, they are absolutely entitled to be vocal.2 -
SirAxen✭✭✭✭✭When I first started playing ESO two years ago, I was really happy about how positive the community is, in-game and on these forums. I was also pleasantly surprised about the extent of communication between the Devs and the community. It felt like the Devs were listening and communicating actively. Maybe I had low standards from the MMO that I played before ESO, which had poor Dev communication and a very toxic community. Lately though it seems that the relationship between the Devs and the community has soured. I wouldn’t say it’s toxic, but its not as up-beat. I think the performance issues have taken a toll on a lot of people, and it doesn’t help that the Dev’s are radio silent about it, which only exasterbates the community’s frustration. The game’s outlook does not seem as positive as it once was. Am I accurate in this assessment our just out of touch? Share your thoughts.
Keep in mind everything is filtered through your own personal perspective. For me personally, it's not any worse or better than it's always been. It's great some places and terrible others, like all online gaming communities.2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Ummmmm been here since beta, this community has always been a toxic hellhole of trolls and crybabies.
Makes sense that you stuck around then...
Why let douchenozzles run you off of a game you enjoy with your friends?
The crap community isn't the awesome game.
You can have one without the other.You can play the game without using the forum, and vice versaEdited by mairwen85 on August 23, 2019 7:36PM2 -
Mitrenga✭✭✭✭✭I think people fed up with the server stability issues and it affected the quality of the forum posts.
Problems with the PvP servers have been there since the launch and ZoS decided to wait, delayed the improvements until the point that similar problems have started to be seen in the PvE zones. Zos even cancelled the Pelinal event this summer. Yes, it is so bad. ZoS accepted that they have ZERO confidence in their game to handle an event of that calibre. Added to all the issues with balance changes and how they are handled, everybody knew this day will come. It's like the global warming. Everyone knows it is getting worse but no lawmaker is taking the initiative.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the community has become polarised over the years.
The forum is predominantly filled with PvPers (and to a lesser degree endgame PvEers) understandably critical of performance and balancing issues (although, ironically, most of the balancing issues stem from their demands), while the game is increasingly predominantly filled with more mainstream PvEers (I reject the term "casual" as many have been committed permanently for 5 years without taking the constant breaks that those who accuse others of being casual seem to take at every update or other hiccup).
Add into the mix the fact that ZOS specifically and openly stated getting on for a year ago that they were developing plans for much greater communication - which has never materialised - and you have all the ingredients for the present forum toxicity while the game itself continues to do very well.
So if I may be permitted to ask, @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , where is the greater communication that we were promised last year?9 -
Luckylancer✭✭✭✭✭Lag may be hard to fix, expensive to fix. But deletion level nerfs to some popular sets, absurt balance changes are not acceptable. There are glaring balanve issues but they only watch, there is no proper act.1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭It's gotten worse over the last year or two. I never had bad performance problems, but since elswyr I have gotten booted multiple times per day on pcna which is supposed to be relatively stable. I know people in game who are generally pretty upbeat but folks get frustrated when your trying to run a trial with no idea if the game will hang in there long enough to let you finish.Edited by worrallj on August 23, 2019 8:06PM3 -
Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think people fed up with the server stability issues and it affected the quality of the forum posts.
Problems with the PvP servers have been there since the launch and ZoS decided to wait, delayed the improvements until the point that similar problems have started to be seen in the PvE zones. Zos even cancelled the Pelinal event this summer. Yes, it is so bad. ZoS accepted that they have ZERO confidence in their game to handle an event of that calibre. Added to all the issues with balance changes and how they are handled, everybody knew this day will come. It's like the global warming. Everyone knows it is getting worse but no lawmaker is taking the initiative.
This. While it's nice with new content, server and game performance is very important, especially to older players. For me, I like to spend 4-5 hours a day in Cyro, which isn't possible atm, since I either have to suffer disconnects, like earlier in the week, or loading screens and other bugs, like tonight. Add that ZOS are terrible at showing that they are aware of these issues and don't do enough to communicate about these issues, and I go from enjoying the game to being VERY salty.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »Lag may be hard to fix, expensive to fix. But deletion level nerfs to some popular sets, absurt balance changes are not acceptable. There are glaring balanve issues but they only watch, there is no proper act.
The problem with balancing issues in any game are (a) they are very subjective so far as the players are concerned, whereas the developers have to consider the broader picture, and (b) the players do not have access to the data logs that the developers rely on. This means that while players may think that a class is over/under-powered, the developers know whether that is the case.2 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's gotten worse over the last year or two. I never had bad performance problems, but since elswyr I have gotten booted multiple times per day on pcna which is supposed to be relatively stable. I know people in game who are generally pretty upbeat but folks get frustrated when your trying to run a trial with no idea if the game will hang in there long enough to let you finish.
Hell, I can't even get through a 4 minute parse on the trial dummy alone at my house without my ping spiking to 400+ at least once. This is not unexpected anymore after significant patches. This has happened before on my normally decent 90 - 120 ms connection. It started again after patch 23. I expect it will eventually gets resolved, but it's frustrating.
On the one hand, you can't blame the devs for not wanting to wade into toxic forum waters. On the other hand, maybe they should stop being such snowflakes and try facing the community situation head on. I mean, a little communication goes a LONG way...even if it's not what you wanted to hear. At least you know one way or the other. When significant issues persist, silence only makes the community feel like what they feel and think doesn't matter. While this may be true, in only breeds more contempt.
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Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭4501#5479*Luckylancer wrote: »Lag may be hard to fix, expensive to fix. But deletion level nerfs to some popular sets, absurt balance changes are not acceptable. There are glaring balanve issues but they only watch, there is no proper act.
Lag wouldn't be hard to fix if they would just put an end to the stupid pointless war...then the issues would take care of themselves, we would also lose the single most toxic element of the community that doesn't pay anything into the game anyway.
We could have a massive new PVE area called Cyrodil and a top notch arena system that could really good places while still offering PVP.
But no...Rich has to have Shadowbane Part Deux..this is the problem with the developers the type of game they want always trumps what the customers want.
Edited by Rain_Greyraven on August 23, 2019 9:39PM"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.1 -
I kind've soured on this company when they pulled that BS about how Morrowind wasn't DLC just because they decided to call it something else (when it was clearly content that I downloaded, and it was/is in fact sold as DLC on places like Steam).
I do not like that kind of mealy-mouthed lying bs. They could have literally said "we want more money, ESO+ will no longer include all DLC" and I would not have been bothered about it at all.
I am fine with buying a mmo and paying $15ish a month and maybe dropping $60ish per expansion. That's the standard I accepted long ago way before this game existed and I have no problems spending that money but I do not like bait and switch, it pisses me off to be lied to and treated like an idiot (which is what I consider anybody to be who accepts that DLC isn't DLC if you simply call it something else, so don't bother trying to whiteknight for such tactics to me).
I still like this game but between that nonsense and many changes that seem baffling and out of touch I don't trust the people who make it at all, and this is no longer my main Mmo and I do not feel invested in it much beyond wanting to support to some friends who are trying to hold a progression guild together while everybody jumps ship.
Gameplay-wise without considering lag, I feel kind of like ESO has lost its soul with One Tamriel and has become a themepark attached to a few cool dungeons since then.
I still have a vague hope that things will improve, but I don't even believe ZOS when they say things anymore because they have lied to me in the past.4 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Ummmmm been here since beta, this community has always been a toxic hellhole of trolls and crybabies.
Absolutely dead on. Have been here since beta as well. I remember the uproar over the API at launch. Entitled, toxic people that post completely hostile and insulting rants directed at the developers and then wonder why responses are limited !
You realize that as a customer of a product, such as ESO; you are allowed to be entitled? I mean, this is how this whole services industry/consumer process works. I fail to understand your gripe against the customer.
As somebody who worked as a retail manager for twenty years for a company that hung its hat on customer service I feel like I’m pretty qualified to say that you guys expect an awful lot for twenty bucks!
Right; there's a pretty big difference between working retail and producing products for a customer base. You were in the business of sales of preexisting products. Your scope is completely different of that than say, the CEO of the company you worked for. Where ZOS and companies like them are in the business of actually making something. I know this because I also produce products for a customer, granted; these are engineering deliverables, but my customer is absolutely entitled to a quality product. Especially, if I want them to continue to do business with me.
Monetary value of a product is irrelevant and honestly; boarders red herring. A butter knife is a cheap product but functional; if it wasn't functional as a butter knife and say, a spoon - well don't you think you'd be entitled for have a functional butter knife?
Bottomline - as a customer, everyone on these forums are entitled to a functional product.
Actually ZOS does not make a real tangible product. They make bits on my computer screen. It's a virtual product, It's not a real thing that they make. And according to the recent changes to the TOS, If I am undertstanding and interpreting them correctly (I'm not a lawyer) they make no guarantee that anything will actually work for the $100 that I spent to be able to access this product. So according to the ToS, I'd have to say that No, we are not entitled to a functional product.
The point that I want to make is that for any product or service that is out there, you hear the complaints much more than you hear when things go well. The internet has made the common person more toxic in their behavior to other people due to the anonymity of the internet, and the usual lack of any negative repercussions of their actions. So those few people that do want to comment about something going well for them are rapidly attacked by others in open forums like the ESO forums.2 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭Burn me at the stake, but I'll say it. Pvpers. Not all are like that of course. Heck I'm even a pvper in other MMO, but maybe that's how I know.1 -
Malprave✭✭✭✭✭Rain_Greyraven wrote: »Ummmmm been here since beta, this community has always been a toxic hellhole of trolls and crybabies.
Absolutely dead on. Have been here since beta as well. I remember the uproar over the API at launch. Entitled, toxic people that post completely hostile and insulting rants directed at the developers and then wonder why responses are limited !
You realize that as a customer of a product, such as ESO; you are allowed to be entitled? I mean, this is how this whole services industry/consumer process works. I fail to understand your gripe against the customer.
As somebody who worked as a retail manager for twenty years for a company that hung its hat on customer service I feel like I’m pretty qualified to say that you guys expect an awful lot for twenty bucks!
Right; there's a pretty big difference between working retail and producing products for a customer base. You were in the business of sales of preexisting products. Your scope is completely different of that than say, the CEO of the company you worked for. Where ZOS and companies like them are in the business of actually making something. I know this because I also produce products for a customer, granted; these are engineering deliverables, but my customer is absolutely entitled to a quality product. Especially, if I want them to continue to do business with me.
Monetary value of a product is irrelevant and honestly; boarders red herring. A butter knife is a cheap product but functional; if it wasn't functional as a butter knife and say, a spoon - well don't you think you'd be entitled for have a functional butter knife?
Bottomline - as a customer, everyone on these forums are entitled to a functional product.
Since you didn’t correct me I’ll assume I was right. You paid twenty bucks for the game and you think that entitles you to get on here and complain indefinitely. Unbelievable.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Loves_guars wrote: »Burn me at the stake, but I'll say it. Pvpers. Not all are like that of course. Heck I'm even a pvper in other MMO, but maybe that's how I know.
blasphemy, i am a PvEer and i guarantee you i have some salt for sale.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I see thats changed is a lot more “I think its time <insert selfless demand here>” posts now...0 -
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[Deleted User]Soul ShrivenHello everyone,
This post is to let you know that we've felt it necessary to put this thread down, as it seemed to have died some time ago and started back up with a bit of flaming and baiting. At this time we'd like to try and keep Draugr threads from roaming around the front page, pushing down newer and more lively threads. Please feel free to continue this discussion on a recent thread under the same subject, or create one if a recent one is not available.
Thank you for understanding!4
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