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The Patch Addressed Broken Meta Builds, It Didn't Remove The Skill Requirement For Being Good
Elusiin
✭✭✭✭✭
Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
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WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
How do you define skill in an RNG based combat system ?4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So you are right and Kristofer, who has reputation of open-minded look on PVP, he is wrong?
3 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »How do you define skill in an RNG based combat system ?
Give the same skill bars & proc sets to a 'skilled' and 'unskilled' player, and one will walk all over the other.
Now, perhaps the difference between 'very skilled' and 'moderately skilled' isn't as bad, therefore making RNG a bigger factor, but that doesn't mean there's no skill involved at all.0 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
This is the equivalent of everyone saying shields are fine because of a single set like shield-breaker (pre-nerf).
What defense do stamina characters have against DoTs?
- DoTs unblockable
- DoTs un-dodgeable
- Not all classes have a purge skill in their toolkit
- Alliance War Purge skill costs every drop of magic on a stam character
- Curse eater is a light armor set
- Stendarr's is a light armor set
- Wyrd Tree is a heavy set (but basically a magic set)
I hate PvP with a passion, but even I can see that this is pretty far from being "balanced." Medium armor has NO defense against this DoT meta. Vigor might be decent, but if you get about 3 DoTs stacked up on you...
7 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Onslaught fully buffed hideblades and overloading sorcs may want to have a word with youTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.2 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud.
The "counters" you listed was a magic set, a magic alliance war move, and a magic Templar move....... So stams having a low magic pool are punished? Nice logic..... The core mechanic of medium armor is dodge..... These moves got changed to undodgable as well btw...... So medium armor lost it's core mechanic because you couldn't kill them lol.
The game has become so stale with the sound of the patch notes (both PvP and pve) that a lot of long time players are finding other things to do. Last I checked we were playing a MMORPG not a group of people apply dots and go back to playing hello Kitty island adventures while the person dies lol.
1vX players shouldn't be punished because a group of people don't know how to properly time a CC and burst down ONE PERSON at the same time. Instead someone always gives the ONE PERSON CC immunity and you allow that ONE PERSON to make a group of people look like fools. That is like punishing a sports team for winning so much just because they are better than the other teams. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Edited by Kidgangster101 on August 19, 2019 2:00AM6 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can still burst people down in a few seconds. 1vX didn't take a hit because of the loss of burst damage, it took a hit because of the pressure from over powered dots and they will be adjusted so I wouldn't get too comfortable. Ive played both mag and stam (in 1vX and in large-scale battles) since the patch and can attest to the fact that no matter what spec you play or how you play rn, Entropy is over performing and Soul Trap isn't too far behind. Certain other skills were also a bit over buffed like living dark. Any one skill does it all type deal is no good. lastly, the ultimate delay doesn't stop people from getting rekt it just makes combat clunky and occasionally delays the inevitable.
Also don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you couldn't react to something that no one could react to it. A lot of us prefer that fast pace and high risk/reward gameplay because while you do have to be smarter about how you play you're also given that power to use.Edited by Vapirko on August 19, 2019 2:07AM2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
Please clarify is there meta now or not?
i guess when skilled player starts jumping around you in 10 meters range, which of course makes him easier to target (no), something like soul trap and entropy which can be applied so easily is that definition of new skill requirement which made PVP better?
It all reminds me of Overwatch and where game rolled down after Moira with in-built auto-aim was added. Of course not because of Moira, but because of overall direction, which allowed auto-aim as agreeable feature.1 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
Can't wait for the update to hit console now!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.1 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
This is the equivalent of everyone saying shields are fine because of a single set like shield-breaker (pre-nerf).
What defense do stamina characters have against DoTs?
- DoTs unblockable
- DoTs un-dodgeable
- Not all classes have a purge skill in their toolkit
- Alliance War Purge skill costs every drop of magic on a stam character
- Curse eater is a light armor set
- Stendarr's is a light armor set
- Wyrd Tree is a heavy set (but basically a magic set)
I hate PvP with a passion, but even I can see that this is pretty far from being "balanced." Medium armor has NO defense against this DoT meta. Vigor might be decent, but if you get about 3 DoTs stacked up on you...
Medium armor builds can still cast purge available to all classes? Several classes have a specialized version of purge: warden, necromancer, and templar. But yes, they should be given a medium armor set that helps remove negative effects. I definitely agree that more balance changes are needed, but this patch is godsend and a huge leap in the right direction.Edited by Elusiin on August 19, 2019 2:42AM1 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud.
The "counters" you listed was a magic set, a magic alliance war move, and a magic Templar move....... So stams having a low magic pool are punished? Nice logic..... The core mechanic of medium armor is dodge..... These moves got changed to undodgable as well btw...... So medium armor lost it's core mechanic because you couldn't kill them lol.
The game has become so stale with the sound of the patch notes (both PvP and pve) that a lot of long time players are finding other things to do. Last I checked we were playing a MMORPG not a group of people apply dots and go back to playing hello Kitty island adventures while the person dies lol.
1vX players shouldn't be punished because a group of people don't know how to properly time a CC and burst down ONE PERSON at the same time. Instead someone always gives the ONE PERSON CC immunity and you allow that ONE PERSON to make a group of people look like fools. That is like punishing a sports team for winning so much just because they are better than the other teams. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Let's just analyze this first statement of yours:
"@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud."
How does the second sentence have anything to do with DoTs? It doesn't matter if those three players use DoTs or direct damage, it still is damage coming from 3 players. The CP system is a huge power gap in cyrodil PvP, that doesn't necessarily make those three players trash. The rest of your response is just toxic and whiny, I won't even bother.1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
"This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed."
If you couldn't build and be fairly effective prior to this patch i wouldn't blame builds.
Secondly, the thinking that, "since there's more of us we should win" is pretty toxic tbh. Builds don't 1vX. Better players do. And better players should win fights.
To celebrate a patch that you claim makes it harder for the solo player and makes it so the zergs have an easier time killing them......
That's what you feel "takes skill?" Interesting.Edited by Royalthought on August 19, 2019 2:56AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A 'Lol' button wouldn't even begin to cover how hilarious this thread is. Your supposed answer to DoT's for stam builds is to spam a skill that costs 8100 magicka at base, 5130 magicka with Efficient Purge, for a chance to remove the DoT's you want removed? (Purge only removes 2 effects.) Get the *** outta here.4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I look forward to being able to purge once then having no magicka left, and dying. Sounds like great fun.1 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sure this is a Zos employee, and if not, the absolute whitest of knights.
In another post about how great PvP is, he says there's no issues with gameplay. He's able to swap bars and his skills fire immediately.
So, either an employee, a paid spokesperson/streamer in hiding, or just a super fanboi who'll deny any legitimate issue like Zos and ESO were one of his kids.
😯6 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don’t think DOTS will be touched for a long time. Us PVP folks are just wishful thinking on that. Those Single target DOTS were changed Specifically for PVE while they nerfed the ground aoe dots. In PVE those single target DOT changes hit the mark exactly perfectly for what ZOS wanted for the game. They won’t change them for quite awhile.
Instead they will introduce some type of stam purge skill and or set and maybe buff bone shield to give stam a viable damage shield.
These new strong dots are here to stay for awhile as sad as that makes me. I’ll be surprised if any of them are nerfed anytime soon because those changes were meant for pve and in pve they are not remotely over performing, zos wanted pve to move in the dot direction and so far that’s exactly what’s happened.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
Vicinia✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud.
The "counters" you listed was a magic set, a magic alliance war move, and a magic Templar move....... So stams having a low magic pool are punished? Nice logic..... The core mechanic of medium armor is dodge..... These moves got changed to undodgable as well btw...... So medium armor lost it's core mechanic because you couldn't kill them lol.
The game has become so stale with the sound of the patch notes (both PvP and pve) that a lot of long time players are finding other things to do. Last I checked we were playing a MMORPG not a group of people apply dots and go back to playing hello Kitty island adventures while the person dies lol.
1vX players shouldn't be punished because a group of people don't know how to properly time a CC and burst down ONE PERSON at the same time. Instead someone always gives the ONE PERSON CC immunity and you allow that ONE PERSON to make a group of people look like fools. That is like punishing a sports team for winning so much just because they are better than the other teams. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Let's just analyze this first statement of yours:
"@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud."
How does the second sentence have anything to do with DoTs? It doesn't matter if those three players use DoTs or direct damage, it still is damage coming from 3 players. The CP system is a huge power gap in cyrodil PvP, that doesn't necessarily make those three players trash. The rest of your response is just toxic and whiny, I won't even bother.
If the three players are subpar, they shouldn't win just because there's more of them. They should be able to pump out more damage than one person already. Bad tactics should be punished, and it shouldn't matter if it is 1 person thrashing them. Those who cannot grasp basic things like CC immunity, bursting and timed ultimates do not need to be spoon-fed further. These DOTs offer a braindead counter to 1vXers.
You conveniently ignored the lack of counters to DOTs for medium armor users. Curse eater is a laughable suggestion. Efficient purge which also got nerfed for a stamina is an even bigger joke. Non Templars and necros do not have an in class equivalent. Medium armor's core means of survival is dodge roll, which they cannot do against DOTs. They do not have access to a reliable purge, or even medium armor set that even purges that I'm aware of.
ZOS flip-flops constantly on their vision of balance. I wouldn't get too comfortable with how entropy, and soul trap work at the moment.Edited by Vicinia on August 19, 2019 4:25AM1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »So you are right and Kristofer, who has reputation of open-minded look on PVP, he is wrong?
I agree with most of what Jack has always said with some exception, that is perceptual ques needed to make a game function properly actually functioning.
People have been spoiled in this game, go take a look at WoW, GW2, SWTOR, Tera, all of the animations and perceptual ques maintain their functionality.
Its not slow, theyve allowed basic functions to not function and a lot of players got used to something that was fundamentally broken.0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »Simple as that. Direct damage was overperforming, now it's on par with DoTs. Bursting people down within 2 seconds was nerfed because you cannot react to that, and that does not require skill. Sets and abilities that were over performing were nerfed. There is no tank meta, no burst damage meta, no metas now. And I feel that is why everyone is on the forums going mad. This was a great list of changes to the game, and balanced everything in a way that you can actually build how you want and be fairly effective in PvP. The game still takes a lot of skill to be great at. Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Before anyone says, DoTs are the meta now, purge, cleanse, curse eater, etc. are all effective counters to DoTs. Just like damage shields and blocking are effective counters to burst damage. Learn to play.
@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud.
The "counters" you listed was a magic set, a magic alliance war move, and a magic Templar move....... So stams having a low magic pool are punished? Nice logic..... The core mechanic of medium armor is dodge..... These moves got changed to undodgable as well btw...... So medium armor lost it's core mechanic because you couldn't kill them lol.
The game has become so stale with the sound of the patch notes (both PvP and pve) that a lot of long time players are finding other things to do. Last I checked we were playing a MMORPG not a group of people apply dots and go back to playing hello Kitty island adventures while the person dies lol.
1vX players shouldn't be punished because a group of people don't know how to properly time a CC and burst down ONE PERSON at the same time. Instead someone always gives the ONE PERSON CC immunity and you allow that ONE PERSON to make a group of people look like fools. That is like punishing a sports team for winning so much just because they are better than the other teams. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Let's just analyze this first statement of yours:
"@Elusiin dots isn't a meta type to you? Lol if 3+ players can't beat one person then those 3 players are trash and are the ones that need to get gud."
How does the second sentence have anything to do with DoTs? It doesn't matter if those three players use DoTs or direct damage, it still is damage coming from 3 players. The CP system is a huge power gap in cyrodil PvP, that doesn't necessarily make those three players trash. The rest of your response is just toxic and whiny, I won't even bother.
Lol you clearly didn't read much of what i posted if my original response came off as whiny to you.
In sum of how you envision this game, "we have 3 you have one so we should win".......
Can 3 drunks beat up a sober person at a bar? Probably not. Can 3 random people you never heard of beat top mma fighters or boxers? Probably not. But your logic says they should 😉
I'm sorry you lack the skill at the game to understand basic functions or lack the ability to have communication even though we have text/voice chat available to us. I'm sorry you need the game dumbed down for you to play it, did you leave call of duty because they don't have a button to aim/shoot the target automatically for you? Lol
Btw go look up some of the good stamsorcs on YouTube that 1vX.... They use medium armor to body groups of people not heavy armor 😉 but heavy armor is meta right? It has nothing to do with player skill right? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
You think pressing a few buttons on a controller/keyboard equals skill? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔2 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Guys I agree with OP I used to gank some people with burst and stealth opens now I can take anyone down with one burst attack and just two DoTs, three DoTs if I need to close into melee but most are die before I need to so yeah very balanced.
Tanks, DPS, healers, doggies, blood suckers, magic, stamina and all five of the Hybrid players all fall in three seconds this is what balanced looks like. This is the world of no meta cause everyone and their mothers stacking DoTs is somehow no a Meta.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
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Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void1 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lastly, of course 1vX was gonna take a hit, you don't make a game balanced making sure one player can take on many others. That's nonsense, and that's the whole concept behind "meta builds", which this patch killed.
Learn to play.
So 3 unskilled people should automatically beat 1 skilled player because 3>1?
Sounds like a bad game.3
