Why is there so much pressure to get the vMA weapon more than ever?

wishlist14 · August 2019

First, if you are triggered by my post please calm down and move on thanks. I specifically made this post for people who do not have their vMA weapon yet....for a variety of reasons.
I've noticed this patch even monster sets have been set aside and the vMA weapons feature not just as BIS but even for builds prior to having normal Trial gear.
This makes no sense to me. Firstly, I have been farming normal Trials and never had my weapons drop and now the build I was working on farming has changed.

The way I see this game in terms of gearing is this

(A)For the total beginner, crafted sets are easiest to help them get started imo farming overlands sets or dungeon sets while levelling is ridiculous as you level so fast it's not worth it. So having a guild craft you a new set every 10 levels makes more sense and reduces stress.

(B)Once you hit level 50, you need to level cp to 160 so you can finally start wearing the gear that really counts or makes a huge difference to your build. So your best bet really is to stick to crafter sets just blue until you get to 160 cp. Now this is when it gets interesting.

(c) At level 50 160CP new opportunities open upto you. You can farm overland sets now and have the right level gear drop for you. You can also work at doing dungeons and pledges to get keys and obtain your monster set. At this point is where I start to have problems with the new changes.
What incentive is there to farm keys to get monster sets when they are no longer Bis ? I have seen low levels easily farm nSS and other easier trials to get their sets or they count on the higher levels that are also farming to carry them. So why bother going through this step here for gear if really you can possible just do normal trials in crafted gear and then get a whole set of normal trials gear or two sets of normal trials gear . But mind you you have to use a trials weapons where your elusive VMA weapon would be.

[(D) I want to add that anyone that does do normal trials does at some point want to try a vet trial even if it's just one of the easier ones. It bothers me however that we are all expected to have our vMA arena beat. Yes I can hear the linch mob already saying well if you can't beat vMA then you have no business playing end game. Well I still believe I am good enough to do the easier vets. I'm a solid good player and I will continue to try to move on in VMA but with all these changes now I have no idea what character to take in there...I was on my nb first time and got to last bosses second round lol.

Anyway this is a long post yes because I wanted to share my thought processes and im sure im not alone. It feels like even the normal trials builds area all about having those damn vMA weapons and yes kudos to those that beat it . There are many factors that can stop some players from stuggling in vma such as health reasons, operations and really bad internet. I did the 2nd level 30 times and my back was seizing up.

For now feeling like I cannot progress without that vMA weapon kinda sucks really.

Naftal · August 2019

Maybe you shouldn't tie your progress into builds someone else makes.

Kurat · August 2019

OP I suggest you calm down. Theres no need to have vMA weapons. You can easily use just crafted, overland ones. The difference is so small, especially if you are noob. People look up Alcast guides and then desperately try to farm BiS gear thinking that then they will be top dps lmao.

Canned_Apples · August 2019

vma weapons are bis?

Dusk_Coven · August 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

What incentive is there to farm keys to get monster sets when they are no longer Bis ?

As a story player I personally feel no incentive or need whatsoever to get BiS anything and I am thankful to ZOS for that.
(Now if only they would give us solo modes for a lot of things so we can experience the story.)

And if any content required a specific set of gear ZOS would have tweaked it already to not require it. It would be ridiculous in destroying the idea of having choices in how you play your character.

Lady_Scorp72 · August 2019

I don't think BiS matters for most content, so don't worry about it and focus instead on what you enjoy the most. There's such a wide range of content from super easy to crazy difficult, and not everyone is willing or able to master all of it.

I'm stuck on the Lvl 9 final boss and am taking a break. Yeah it's frustrating to be so close and know I'll miss out on the double drops, but honestly, it's not worth making myself miserable trying. Plus, if someone is unable to complete VMA due to physical or technical difficulties, then I'm not sure they'd be able to do the hardest content in the game that might require those weapons (me included).

Side note, I like using Alcast's builds as my starting point, but even he is quick to point out that VMA weapons don't add that much DPS so it's not a big deal if people don't have them. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's more important for people to practice their rotations to get a consistent 25-35k DPS, which is enough to clear most content.

Dusk_Coven · August 2019

Lady_Scorp72 wrote: »

I like using Alcast's builds as my starting point, but even he is quick to point out that VMA weapons don't add that much DPS so it's not a big deal if people don't have them.

People don't even bother to read ZOS announcements about ticketed events. I don't think we can expect people to read anything more than the shopping list on a build guide.

Urzigurumash · August 2019

You should only be concerned with BIS gear once you are actually able to perceive that not using BIS gear is holding you or you group back, in my opinion.

Hold yourself to your own standards, and only spend time with people that want to spend time with you. There are too many people in this world to be upset with any one person's or one group's ideas of what or who you should be.

I would be surprised to hear you cannot find a Vet Craglorn Trials group that won't take you without the 100% up to date maximal BIS gear. Unless they are concerned with pushing for top score on the leaderboard this seems a bit excessively demanding. vMoL, vHoF, and vCR are all rather difficult and it's a real challenge (on Xbox) to even find a group willing to do it. With the amount of time and commitment they take it's not unreasonable for group leaders to want 100% BIS.

The good news is anything could possibly work in 4 man content, nobody really knows what's best there, so go and start a vBRP scoring group and proudly find yourself on the leaderboard without a single VMA weapon. On Xbox if you complete vBRP, you're on the leaderboard.

MLGProPlayer · August 2019

vMA weapons add like 1-2k DPS to a parse. They're not even close to required.

But if you can't beat vMA, you're definitely not ready for vet trials (the easiest vet trials are harder than vMA).

Urzigurumash · August 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

(the easiest vet trials are harder than vMA).

Not for tanks!

AndyMac · August 2019

I did vet Crag trials for a long time without a flame staff and I never had a problem. You do not need vMA weapons to do them. Getting into raids doing DLC trials would likely be a different story tho. I had my staff when I did vMOL and vAS.

BIS is just a nice to have. It doesn't mean everything else is useless.

MLGProPlayer · August 2019

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

(the easiest vet trials are harder than vMA).

Not for tanks!

Sure, but tanks don't need vMA weapons.

Urzigurumash · August 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Sure, but tanks don't need vMA weapons.

Nope, thank goodness. Still trying to tank my way through that place. At least the Dwarven rounds are pretty easy for a tank.

Taleof2Cities · August 2019

Thread title made me think of this classic:

https://youtu.be/U_IhiEUp2bQ

WeylandLabs · August 2019

Bold Lettering 😂

If I was able to do VMA under 100 cp in 2015. Granted it took me a few days, it shouldn't be a problem today.

BIS is for players that try to be competitive in raids. Most players can hit raids with no bis and still be competive.

Plus VMA is the only solo content in the game and a true test to learn the mechanics.

If people have a hard time "learning" or maybe used to getting carried. Maybe... it's a l2p issue.

Personally if players have a hard time with VMA today, and are staying competitive in raids. That should say something about the players culture of eso today.

You have no idea what VR players went through to complete VMA. Let alone farm the weapons 1 at a time with no trait change option.

This thread is a hilarious.

SoLooney · August 2019

If you're making excuses for yourself that you need dont need maelstrom weapons because they only add a small dps, you're just living in denial and trying to coax yourself from ever clearing that content

Maelstrom dual wield is the meta thing to do for stam dps. I agree, if you're group isn't hardcore end game pve types, its not a huge a issue. But that's all part of being a better player is having maelstrom weapons. Lot of players will judge you for not having the weapons as it is a pretty good sign you dont have the capabilities to clear vet trials aside from the craglorns

If you like to casually clear normal trials, then go for it

r34lian · August 2019

vMA doesn't makes you good player it is simply pve and no matter how you design ai at you can only progress much with it unlike pvp where you play against people having variety of skill level so anyone saying vMA makes you a better player is complete ***.
Second the intencive or reward isn't worth it with capable rotation the maximum dps you can increase is 2 to 3k simply not worth the hassle and idiotic rng there.
One can achieve 30k+ dps with crafted sets and which is required by most endgame trials yes even the harder ones.
Coming from flawless conquer who got both inferno and bow but refuse to go back cause of idiotic rng *** there.

idk · August 2019

First of all, if you are going to play ESO and want to have meta builds you better get used to them changing often. That is life as Zos makes heavy handed changes fairly regularly.

Second, most do not need to deal with meta builds and if you are only doing normal trials then you certainly do not need to stress about it.

Third, and most important, a solid dps player, one who works on being very good at what they do will still do more dps than 90% of the players in this game without vMA weapons. Player skill does more for out dps than the small difference between one set and the next best set or even the 10th best set.

I think one would be hard pressed to find many groups that actually require a player to have vMA weapons in their build. Solid raid groups focus on one thing, that you can do dps while still dealing with mechanics. They could really care less how you do it as long as you can and it is above board. So I really do not see how your complain is legitate. I have yet to see someone pull great numbers and stay alive in fights that require dealing with mechanics get turned away.

As for what is great about vMA, it helps at first glance that this is a person who can handle mechanics as vMA is really about mechanics and less about dps.

bmnoble · August 2019

I don't bother with VMA weapons but I main a tank so don't need them.

As for why people are making such a fuss about them at the moment, its the double drops during the event in Wrothgar, it gives people a slightly better chance at getting the weapon they are after, so anyone who has been putting off doing VMA is doing it now.

MLGProPlayer · August 2019

r34lian wrote: »

vMA doesn't makes you good player it is simply pve and no matter how you design ai at you can only progress much with it unlike pvp where you play against people having variety of skill level so anyone saying vMA makes you a better player is complete ***.
Second the intencive or reward isn't worth it with capable rotation the maximum dps you can increase is 2 to 3k simply not worth the hassle and idiotic rng there.
One can achieve 30k+ dps with crafted sets and which is required by most endgame trials yes even the harder ones.
Coming from flawless conquer who got both inferno and bow but refuse to go back cause of idiotic rng *** there.

PvP in an MMO isn't a good indicator of skill at all. Gear, level, race, class, etc. all play a part in how good someone is. In a battle of equal skill between two players, the player with the higher level/better gear/better class/better race will always win.

If you want competitive PvP, the MMO genre is the wrong place to be (you want MOBAs).

idk · August 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

r34lian wrote: »

vMA doesn't makes you good player it is simply pve and no matter how you design ai at you can only progress much with it unlike pvp where you play against people having variety of skill level so anyone saying vMA makes you a better player is complete ***.
Second the intencive or reward isn't worth it with capable rotation the maximum dps you can increase is 2 to 3k simply not worth the hassle and idiotic rng there.
One can achieve 30k+ dps with crafted sets and which is required by most endgame trials yes even the harder ones.
Coming from flawless conquer who got both inferno and bow but refuse to go back cause of idiotic rng *** there.

PvP in an MMO isn't a good indicator of skill at all. Gear, level, race, class, etc. all play a part in how good someone is. In a battle of equal skill between two players, the player with the higher level/better gear/better class/better race will always win.

If you want competitive PvP, the MMO genre is the wrong place to be (you want MOBAs).

I would agree the PvP in this game is far from competitive PvP, but skill still carries the largest part of the difference between two players in this game. Yes, gear, level, race, et all. do count as math is the basis of damage and healing but a more skilled player will likely win the day over a lesser skilled player even when math is not in their favor.

madarame_77 · August 2019

I was the author of the post a while ago where I advocated to make vMA weapons buyable. I still haven't completed vMA just because I hate to do some content alone in this game. It is MMO after all. That's why we play it. It's not single player game. It's supposed to be multiplayer.

However, I was perfecting my rotation and LA weaving. So now I'm doing 43k dps on 3 mil dummy with Alcast build modified a bit (without unstable wall which was nerfed anyway). I just managed to do vAS+0 with my friends. I hope we will manage +2 in near future.

So to OP, forget vMA, you don't need it.

Berserkerkitten · August 2019

I like how some people believe that vMA weapons are the ultimate solution to their DPS woes. If you can't beat vMA in the first place, then your weapon is the least of your problems with your build/playstyle.

pattyLtd · August 2019

I do have the weapons and dont overthink it all.
VMA weapons are overrated and not gamebreaking or showstoppers.

It’s all very marginal gains the number crunches favor them because they do give bit more dps but thats barely noticeable in actual gameplay. You wont be able to beat dungeons with it if cant do it without them.

Matthew_Galvanus · August 2019

Canned_Apples wrote: »

vma weapons are bis?

some are, some aren't.

for example, after the changes to volley, the maelstrom bow is no longer BiS, but its still a decent weapon to have.

any of the cruel flurry sets are a good BiS for nightblades, but its not a necessity, especially if you play stam, there are *tons* of viable builds for stamina

ultimately however, the weapon just gives the the opportunity to do more damage, if you don't learn the right rotation to max out your dps however, having the BiS gear is moot

Betty_Booms · August 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

vMA weapons add like 1-2k DPS to a parse. They're not even close to required.

But if you can't beat vMA, you're definitely not ready for vet trials (the easiest vet trials are harder than vMA).

I wouldnt say vAA is harder then vMA. There are plenty of poeple in my guilds completing vet trials that have not been able to complete vMA.

To the OP. I guess people that have cleared it feel.a sense of accomplishment because for most it was quite th feat to beat.

So that comes with some prestige and bragging rights when in posession of the weps.

But you absolutely dont need them however some trial leaders may ask for completion as a skill check requirement which I totally disagree with.

The event with 2 drops has also emphisised these weps and really put them into the light.

Ultimately vMA is a personal test of skill. If you put time into researching and creating the suitable builds for you play style, memorising mob soawns and practicing mechanics, you will eventually beat it.

It took me a very long time and I finally got there. Now I beat it without too much trouble. Rest assured it isnt lost on me how hard it was to get to this point.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · August 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

vMA weapons add like 1-2k DPS to a parse. They're not even close to required.

But if you can't beat vMA, you're definitely not ready for vet trials (the easiest vet trials are harder than vMA).

I have done all vet trials constantly over the last 5 years without vMA weapons.
They are good only for those the bit extra for leaderboards, similarly to the "requirement" for the tank using staff.
Just to save of 1 second on boss fights, but make the life of the tank more difficult.

Also many do not want to do vMA because they hate that type of content, like myself.
And stop copying builds. Not everything works for everyone.

Kel · August 2019

vMA weapons don't magically make you a better player. And not to sound dickish, but if you can't beat vMA, BiS shouldn't be your worry. You can do just fine without them.

Like it or not, what makes a player better is situational awareness and animation canceling/light attack weaving. Not coincidentally, these things are your greatest weapons to actually beat vMA.

It take practice and patience. Yes, vMA is frustrating. Doubly so with how performance has been in there. But if you go through with learning the spawn areas and you're not afraid of dying a billion times, you'll eventually beat it. Then you'll wonder what all the fuss was for an increase of 1k to 2k of dps. 😖

Failing that, there's always this. Good for learning the arena and just getting the monkey off your back..

https://youtu.be/TltS1PUapZM

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · August 2019

Kurat wrote: »

OP I suggest you calm down. Theres no need to have vMA weapons. You can easily use just crafted, overland ones. The difference is so small, especially if you are noob. People look up Alcast guides and then desperately try to farm BiS gear thinking that then they will be top dps lmao.

Yep. And the average person forgets that for these builds to work, need to spam power pots, and someone casting spells to use for synergies every 10 seconds.

Also the builds this time baffle me more than normal. Take a look at the Jabsmania (Stamplar DD), it doesn't use Jabs!!!
And the damage is 30% less, single target, by using Rapid Strikes over Jabs.
That before counting AOE damage from Jabs, Aedric Spear passives or Major Savagery buff.

EmEm_Oh · August 2019

OP, I strongly suggest running MA in normal mode several times to get used to the mechanics. Even if you don't get vMA completed or weapons, the mechanics will help you out for other dungeons.

As others have said, weapons like these are not required.

Pace yourself. Take your time. Don't worry about others.

Nemesis7884 · August 2019

i never bothered and i never will - doing the arena over and over is 0 fun to me... they should introduce way more randomized elements if that was the idea.

There is way too much repetition and grind in eso as is...

my opinion is simple if you need to "work" 80% in a game to habe 20% fun than

a.) youre doing it wrong and
b.) your game design is garbage