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Any point in having healers now?
Zallibik
Soul Shriven
So healers were already kinda useless in most Dungeon content and alot of trial content, as its just faster and easier to take 3DD 1 tank to dungeons, but now they nerf the main healing skills aswell...
can't stack healing springs anymore and can only cast 1 orb at a time.. so basically we have combat prayer to grp heal now and thats it? a directional heal, good job might aswell just remove healers from the game.
can't stack healing springs anymore and can only cast 1 orb at a time.. so basically we have combat prayer to grp heal now and thats it? a directional heal, good job might aswell just remove healers from the game.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because you want a healer?
Because you are PUGing and you have no faith your random teammates can self-heal through the content?
Because you are playing with friends, and you have no faith they can self heal through the content?
Becauae you aren't coordinated enough to manage a No Healer trial?
Just because the meta tells you not to bring a healer, or because the score-chasing top tier groups might eke out a little more DPS without healers doesnt actually mean that healers aren't still useful for the vast majority of players.24 -
CipherNine✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Because you want a healer?
Because you are PUGing and you have no faith your random teammates can self-heal through the content?
Because you are playing with friends, and you have no faith they can self heal through the content?
Becauae you aren't coordinated enough to manage a No Healer trial?
Just because the meta tells you not to bring a healer, or because the score-chasing top tier groups might eke out a little more DPS without healers doesnt actually mean that healers aren't still useful for the vast majority of players.
Sure that may be true. But doesnt change the fact that this delusional player base has their heads up the score-chasing top tier groups asses they will never find there way out. then think they have to proceed to copy every thing they do and that its the only way to do anything.PC-NA
Khajiit Templar - Healer
Argonian Necromancer - Healer
Breton Warden - Healer
Nord Necromancer - Tank
Argonian Templar - Tank
Nord Warden - Tank19 -
sindalstar✭✭✭Having been in a dungeon with newer people who know not how to care for themselves as well as be in numerous groups where a 'healer' was inserted only to have a third damage dealer
I can tell you that the tank, who was newer and still learning, was not happy to learn that he would have to do the work of two people without receiving any sort of support or resources.
Say what you want. Burn through mechanics if you like. Listen to the people who prefer to brute force their way through content once they have gained sufficient enough damage.
But being a healer, I can tell you that a SIGNIFICANT portion of the community who don't know how to take care of themselves still need us. Retire your healers if you must. You only add to the problem if 'no one wants to heal'
Almost all of the healer skills (at least, the ones given to the restoration line) have been made easier to use and employ. If a healer is 'someone who sacrifices at least half their abilities for healing ones' then so be it. They would still be healers in my eyes if their primary concern is healing and then helping to kill the boss with their remaining time.
This is the unfortuante truth with "Play and build as you like"
People will build the way they want to build: Selfishly.
If they aren't allowed to, they will complain. As they always have.
The people who build to be generous are left by the wayside. For it is not their heals that kill the boss.
Fixing that would require significant changes to the limits people can take care of that. And by how much people whine and complaing when something like vigor gets nerfed, I don't see that will happenEdited by sindalstar on August 12, 2019 11:30AM20 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content thoughskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
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Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its not healer foult that 90% of the players run dungeons with hybrid pvp/solo builds.
True healers is gold, same as trud dps or tank. Its not a game problem, its a comunity one.
Stil some dlc dungeons require good healer/tank. Same with trials and pvp8 -
ZallibikSoul Shrivensure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.11 -
Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.1 -
beadabow✭✭✭I think healers are awesome, and love having them in a group. I know they always seem to get the blame when someone dies, but experience has shown, the healer was doing his/her job right--it was the dead player that wasn't performing their role in most cases. Once the patch becomes live, it is up to the healers to determine how to adapt and overcome the many challenges presented to them. I know the good ones will prevail.3 -
sindalstar✭✭✭There's literally a system that says "You cannot que without 1 healer"
Friend groups who decide to forgo it aside, you will always be able to be a healer no matter what people say. Whether you are 'necessary' is up to you. People don't like to admit it, but it's alot easier to do their rotations when they don't have to worry about popping self defenses inbetween.
Trials need us too. We make things 'smoother' in most cases.
I don't think i've ever been told, espically in a pug "Dammit we have a healer here. This sucks"Edited by sindalstar on August 12, 2019 11:41AM5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
If someone is a player who knows an excellent tank and two other fantastic DDs, its probably easier to group up as a tank + 3 DDs and blitz through the DLC Dungeon.
How much of the player base do you really think qualifies for the above statement?
I doubt its as many as some people fear, not with ZOS having to nerf several DLC dungeons in an attempt to improve completion rates.3 -
danara✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?0 -
probabkyravi✭✭✭Noobs need healers in 4-man PvE, Cyrodiil/BGs a healer around makes a massive difference. Trials I know a heal or 2 is needed. The nerfs are PvP related as usual.
Guilds like DDK running springs balls cause immense lag. Its more a lag combat from ZoS than mechanic related but it will make trials and Cyordill better. PvE too easy anyway.0 -
sindalstar✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?
Whether it is easier or not is not the point.
His point is they will have a spot. That's the point of the role system.1 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trials and some dungeons need healers and they are an essential addition to groups in PvP and some of the hardest PVE content. I don’t see where the argument that healers aren’t needed comes from...0 -
danara✭✭✭probabkyravi wrote: »Noobs need healers in 4-man PvE, Cyrodiil/BGs a healer around makes a massive difference. Trials I know a heal or 2 is needed. The nerfs are PvP related as usual.
Guilds like DDK running springs balls cause immense lag. Its more a lag combat from ZoS than mechanic related but it will make trials and Cyordill better. PvE too easy anyway.
Disagree : nerf target over heal in pve, the problem is that some mecanics are designed around this over heal spam (vHoF execute phase, vCR execute phase for example).
They gave some awesome buff for pvp (healing ward change, RR...) but by nerfing Springs and Orbs (which mostly affect pve), they also nerf the "invincible zerg" in pvp.
As a conclusion :
I think the change in pvp are awesome, now zerg will less abuse of the over heal mecanics and healing in cyrodill will be more reactive in my opinion (but Grand Healing spam will still be a things considering the change of Master Resto Staff- truelly stupide change Btw)...
But the main concern are for pvp, i dont say the change are bad when you look at them one per one, BUT, all the change together make pve healing irellevant, because of the change of pvp People can self sustain easier + ALL CHANGES then in most of the trials you can get rid of healers.. They need to rework trial to make pve healing more relevant, or try to find a way to make healer True healer
why not replace spell/weapon damage by a new stat, this statwill be présent on all healer stuff, and then healing output will scale with this stat + max mag/stam instead of scaling with spell/weapon damage, but by doing that you also kill self heal and ruined pvp.. 🤔0 -
danara✭✭✭sindalstar wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?
Whether it is easier or not is not the point.
His point is they will have a spot. That's the point of the role system.
Then tell me why a Guy Who is dps can have more healing out put than my healer ? The healer role is existing right ? So why dd can do my job without losing dps ?6 -
sindalstar✭✭✭Trials and some dungeons need healers and they are an essential addition to groups in PvP and some of the hardest PVE content. I don’t see where the argument that healers aren’t needed comes from...
Mostly from the people who argue that a vast majority of dungeons are easier without them, instead kicking the boss down faster. Which can be true.
The only way around it is either to SEVERELY hamper the amount of self care for earlier dungeons. Or make dungeons blast out such consistent damage that not having a healer is suicide.
Both spit in the face of everyone who isn't a healer.3 -
sindalstar✭✭✭sindalstar wrote: »runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?
Whether it is easier or not is not the point.
His point is they will have a spot. That's the point of the role system.
Then tell me why a Guy Who is dps can have more healing out put than my healer ? The healer role is existing right ? So why dd can do my job without losing dps ?
I'm not saying there isn't a problem.
But hanging your coat and running to the other side doesn't really help.
the recent changes haven't done that much to change that. People have always been able to do it if they planned for it.
That doesn't mean you can't be a healer.1 -
ZallibikSoul Shrivenim sure DD's would be complaining if it was better to take a tank and 3 healers now wouldn't they.5
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I have 3 healers, and wont be retiring any of them. just change some skills and gear.
use different one depending on the content im doing with peple0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I do love how everyone on the forums seems to assume that everyone playing the game is a min maxed elite player. Sure if you are in the top 1% PvE progression groups you'll likely have a unique group comp. If you're anyone else you'll still need healers in trials and harder dungeons. If your good enough, healers might be unneeded. I personally don't need a healer for most content, but they are still needed by the general pop.
The problem arises when non elite players use elite setups and wonder why they are wiping with their 3dd 1 tank 90k group DPS setup.Edited by Luigi_Vampa on August 12, 2019 1:30PMPC/EU DC4 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭sindalstar wrote: »
I don't think i've ever been told, espically in a pug "Dammit we have a healer here. This sucks"
I have. Despite the fact my healer buffs, debuffs and supplies resources, and does some dps, she is simply not needed in all but the hardest content by level capped players. 80% of group content can be blasted thru. There are no penalties for dying...except in no death speed runs. Everyone can slot sufficient self heals on their dps to complete most content at cap. This is likely to be more common after this patch. I now have a fake dps build set up on my healer for most content which I switch into with capped groups.
I agree low level players who don't know mechanics like a healer present. As do vet trials groups. For everything in between we are pretty redundant. So mostly I just medium size PvP in Cyro, where it's nice to be needed.
Quoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos3 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?
All of them are easier with a healer.
Now, can you do it faster without a healer, maybe. Depends on how many players are getting wiped. But faster is not easier. Or more enjoyable.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"3 -
danara✭✭✭runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »sure at the highest level of play healers aren't as useful as they used to be and self healing is incredibly strong
not everyone is operating at the highest level of play and needs the crutch help of a healer to get through content though
so healers are there to help new players and no use at end game, i'm a healer so dont take this post as a dig at healers, i'm concerned about my usefulness as a healer from now on.
Dont be. You will have spot in trials and pvp. And in every dungeon vet or not.
Can you give me a dunjeon easier with one healer than without ?
All of them are easier with a healer.
Now, can you do it faster without a healer, maybe. Depends on how many players are getting wiped. But faster is not easier. Or more enjoyable.
Spoiler : all dunjeon are easier without healer even with HM, because tanks have enough sustain to survive EASILY without healer, and dd just burn the boss and skip all mecanics,
why do you think Speed + No Death + HM of Fang Lair is easier without healer ? Because the more the fights last, the more the group can wipe, too many one shot mecanics, no damage to heal except on tanks but they can still heal without us (dragon blood,...)2 -
Thalmor-Nordmaster✭✭✭✭✭I will continue to do three things without fail in this game
1.Heal when asked to heal
2.Tank when asked to tank
3. Help my guild-mates and friends out in what ever way I can
Nothing zenimax can do will change how I work with or help others.
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Jpk0012✭✭✭✭So healers were already kinda useless in most Dungeon content and alot of trial content, as its just faster and easier to take 3DD 1 tank to dungeons, but now they nerf the main healing skills aswell...
can't stack healing springs anymore and can only cast 1 orb at a time.. so basically we have combat prayer to grp heal now and thats it? a directional heal, good job might aswell just remove healers from the game.
You think the only healing spell available is combat prayer? Do you even play a healer?
Also, any good player is going to heal and dps. Not just sit there with their thumb up their butt.Edited by Jpk0012 on August 12, 2019 2:38PM1 -
crazywolfpusher✭✭✭OP think healers were needed before?
this patch actually helps healers. You now have very strong HoTs that are great for dungeons and arenas.
No more spam orbs and springs feels great, -less magicka regen needed, +more time to watch the combat field. You can also slot some of the new damage over time abilities like degeneration and soul trap and you will contribute a sustantial dps to your group.2 -
GarnetFire17✭✭✭✭They should be pushing toward the NECESSITY of healers in my opinion not away from it.4
