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Style-Topics Discussion
Avrael
✭✭✭✭
Ill just make one thread for 3 topics, because theyre closely related.
1. Should style materials be used for transmogs instead of gold/outfit tokens?
All style materials are pretty much completley useless since transmogs came. It was a very good change, but very badly implemented. One of the actually stupidest things ive witnessed so far in this game, is that transmogs cost pure gold, instead of using the style materials, which would continue to give them a use, or at least the materials AND gold. Also, the amount of gold it costs for some styles just seems completley random. Like... 6000 gold for the GLASS style that (hopefully) noone on the planet uses because its really, really ugly, but "only" 3000 for Dremora which looks alright? Honestly...
How in the everloving mudcrab did NOONE from ZOS come up with this in my eyes very simple, logical idea? I really cant understand... i really dont have a single clue about gamedesign, programming or anything related, but i feel like even i could do a better job at designing these things then paid people who do this work daily, and that really is quite sad. Does noone in the team have ANY sense of game design or are capable of basic logical thinking? Im really not trying to be mean here, but thats seriously how ZOS looks with things like this, how do they still get paid for this?
2. Should style materials that you need 10 smaller materials for be changed?
In my eyes, it just makes the list of materials from every crafting table longer... and nothing else. Its just a nuisance. Every single material that needs 10 smaller materials is not rare or qualified enough to need that. Why need 10 dried blood to make 1 tainted blood, if you could just give us the 1 tainted blood? Its not that rare in any case, and it wont ever be.
3. Should on which char you learn style pages matter anymore?
When you learn style pages on a character, only that character can build things in that style, and gets the achivements for those styles... but every char on the account can use them for transmogs, which, again, makes crafting the styles pretty much unimportant in the first place. Why not make at least this fully account bound? So it wouldnt matter on which char you read a style page, it would give every character the achivements (read the page/book), crafting and transmog style. This also would negate issues like when you maybe accidentaly learn a style on the wrong character, and that style maybe was worth a lot, but you dont want/need it on that char.
Also, 2 more small topics i just want to mention again while im at it, many staff styles dont face forwards, which makes them basically unused by everyone, because it looks stupid, this really should be fixed, and there are much too many styles in my opinion... over 70-80 now? I mean... why? Many of them look SO similar, Outlaw=Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood=Assasins Guild=Morag Tong, etc. Does anyone else feel this way? I understand they want to make money, but... is the money they pay the designers for designing those styles (with a lot of flaws) really comparable to the amount they make from them? Might be, i dont know, but it just doesnt feel like it, at least not anymore...
Keep in mind that this is only my opinion before you pull out the pikes and torches, sad that i have to meintion it, but i know i have to, and i know it probably wont make a diffrence, this will get flooded with hate. But feel free to discuss and commentate.
1. Should style materials be used for transmogs instead of gold/outfit tokens?
All style materials are pretty much completley useless since transmogs came. It was a very good change, but very badly implemented. One of the actually stupidest things ive witnessed so far in this game, is that transmogs cost pure gold, instead of using the style materials, which would continue to give them a use, or at least the materials AND gold. Also, the amount of gold it costs for some styles just seems completley random. Like... 6000 gold for the GLASS style that (hopefully) noone on the planet uses because its really, really ugly, but "only" 3000 for Dremora which looks alright? Honestly...
How in the everloving mudcrab did NOONE from ZOS come up with this in my eyes very simple, logical idea? I really cant understand... i really dont have a single clue about gamedesign, programming or anything related, but i feel like even i could do a better job at designing these things then paid people who do this work daily, and that really is quite sad. Does noone in the team have ANY sense of game design or are capable of basic logical thinking? Im really not trying to be mean here, but thats seriously how ZOS looks with things like this, how do they still get paid for this?
2. Should style materials that you need 10 smaller materials for be changed?
In my eyes, it just makes the list of materials from every crafting table longer... and nothing else. Its just a nuisance. Every single material that needs 10 smaller materials is not rare or qualified enough to need that. Why need 10 dried blood to make 1 tainted blood, if you could just give us the 1 tainted blood? Its not that rare in any case, and it wont ever be.
3. Should on which char you learn style pages matter anymore?
When you learn style pages on a character, only that character can build things in that style, and gets the achivements for those styles... but every char on the account can use them for transmogs, which, again, makes crafting the styles pretty much unimportant in the first place. Why not make at least this fully account bound? So it wouldnt matter on which char you read a style page, it would give every character the achivements (read the page/book), crafting and transmog style. This also would negate issues like when you maybe accidentaly learn a style on the wrong character, and that style maybe was worth a lot, but you dont want/need it on that char.
Also, 2 more small topics i just want to mention again while im at it, many staff styles dont face forwards, which makes them basically unused by everyone, because it looks stupid, this really should be fixed, and there are much too many styles in my opinion... over 70-80 now? I mean... why? Many of them look SO similar, Outlaw=Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood=Assasins Guild=Morag Tong, etc. Does anyone else feel this way? I understand they want to make money, but... is the money they pay the designers for designing those styles (with a lot of flaws) really comparable to the amount they make from them? Might be, i dont know, but it just doesnt feel like it, at least not anymore...
Keep in mind that this is only my opinion before you pull out the pikes and torches, sad that i have to meintion it, but i know i have to, and i know it probably wont make a diffrence, this will get flooded with hate. But feel free to discuss and commentate.
"I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."
"Well shave it for later."
6
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Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These are good ideas on paper, @Avrael.
However, things start to break down when you start taking away gold sinks and Crown Store offerings from ZOS.
Outfit tokens and paying gold to change style are two examples, here. Don’t forget that crafting a certain armor means it’s not an outfit ... so you can change the dye colors for free. In addition, making motifs universal would cause the motif economy to tank.
I’m all for making style stones matter again and not be irrelevant.
Good ideas but they need more thought.4 -
Avrael✭✭✭✭Yes, they do need more thought, but honestly, i would say even they would be better then what we have in the game atm.
But there are people at ZOS whos job it is to think about stuff like this... or at least whos job it should be. Also, feel free to add something to the ideas that would make them better."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."0 -
Avrael✭✭✭✭Anyone else something to say about this? Dont want to let this die THAT early."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."0 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Maaaaybe? If so, then -in addition- rather then "instead".1. Should style materials be used for transmogs instead of gold/outfit tokens?
But... it would annoy a great many people! A lot of the rare styles are difficult enough to learn that they might not like to also pay in materials for just playing around with them in the outfit system... after all, a -item- in that style consuming a rare style material is forever (or until deconstructed), but an outfit might be changed next week...
More like, dependent on how hard the style is to acquire, how rare it is compared to other styles!Also, the amount of gold it costs for some styles just seems completley random.
Also, for some character visuals, glass would be a nifty style to use. Just sayin, beauty is still in the eye of the beholder...
Don't really see why. Better this then changing the drop rarity!2. Should style materials that you need 10 smaller materials for be changed?
...
What I -would- like to see is the crafting passives affecting this as well, and giving you a chance to "make extra" if you spent the skill points much as with normal refining...
YES!3. Should on which char you learn style pages matter anymore?
Since the master writ drop chance is very much dependent on this!
Also, the best you can expect is for them to let you pay to mirror your crafters style collection anyhow. And since they already sell styles in the crown store... there you have it.
Agreed.Also, 2 more small topics i just want to mention again while im at it, many staff styles dont face forwards, which makes them basically unused by everyone, because it looks stupid, this really should be fixed
I don't, I feel it gives us all the more options to mix and match!, and there are much too many styles in my opinion... over 70-80 now? I mean... why? Many of them look SO similar, Outlaw=Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood=Assasins Guild=Morag Tong, etc. Does anyone else feel this way?
And that is the -true- endgame... Elder Fashion Online, mixing various styles to find -your- "perfect" look for your character. And then buy another outfit slot (when they are 50% off, because 1500 crowns for one is an insult!), and do it again for a different design... make a "summer armor" and a "winter armor", and a "swamp armor" and a "ceremoninal armor" and a "war uniform armor" and... and... and...
NUUU! Think of the pike smiths and torch carvers, they want to make some sales to...Keep in mind that this is only my opinion before you pull out the pikes and torches...
Go Storm The Castle NOW!
(Yeah, just kiddin)3 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anyone else something to say about this? Dont want to let this die THAT early.
I would say "Don't bump your thread unless you have something of substance to add, as per forum rules", but it seems to have worked out alright for you in terms of getting more feedback.
@Taleof2Cities is essentially correct.
1. The Oufit System was designed by ZOS to be a Gold Sink. Lots of players complained, but the gold cost is a feature, not a bug.
Style materials are already used up in 2 ways.
A) Crafting gear
B.)Crafting writs
Outfit tokens are a prime example of: "Make a problem, then sell a solution."
2. Removing the 10 to 1 examples would simplify things for players. For ZOS, it has a couple benefits.
A) it gives a common reward without immediately making the style mat super common
B.) Players have to repeat the activity 10 or more times to get the style mat
C) following on B, it slows progression, as with jewelry crafting
D) anything that causes inventory complications works in ZOS' favor, encouraging players to purchase more storage or subscribe for the Crafting Bag (Make a problem, sell the solution)
ZOS loves longer grinds, and this fits right in their wheelhouse. Welkynar motif fits this pattern, where the additional grind was designed to make the motif rarer, slower to obtain, force players to run the content again and again, and to encourage impatient players to buy from the Crown Store (make a problem, sell the solution, again). It sucks for players, but for ZOS, this is a feature, not a bug.
3. You need to better distinguish between motif pages and style pages.
Motif pages grant crafting knowledge to 1 character, and style knowledge account-wide.
Style pages grant style knowledge account wide, already.
Motif pages will almost certainly continue to grant their crafting knowledge to only one character for the following reasons:
A) crafting achievements are per character
B.) eidetic memory is per character
C) ZOS sells crafting motifs in the Crown Store, and per character means more sales for anyone buying duplicates. (Make a problem...you see where this is going.)
D) motif knowledge increases the chance of getting Master Writs from max tier crafting writs, which are per character
E) some crafting motifs require a certain skill level in a craft to learn to make them, and skill points are per character
F) motifs are major rewards for grinding out DLC dungeons, new Chapter/DLC dailies, and for many Events. ZOS is not likely to devalue those rewards by making motif knowledge account wide.
As you were told, your ideas have potential, but need more work. The above are some of the reasons why the status quo benefits ZOS, even though the status quo doesnt always benefit players.
If you want to change the status quo, its worth considering how and why your suggestions benefit ZOS over and above the status quo.Edited by VaranisArano on August 7, 2019 2:16PM1 -
Avrael✭✭✭✭First i wanted to write long and elaborate answers to both of you, all of that was very detailed and im thankfull for that... but honestly after reading it and realizing (once again) that the truth is just to make a game garbage so you can sell things that make it SLIGHTLY better, makes me physically sick and i wanna throw up... i think maybe i just need to stop playing this game, or games at all for that matter. I still think ZOS maybe will one day listen to some players, but thats not gonna happen, idk why i still try."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Style materials are not useless, they are used for crafting daily writs. Also there is such thing as PVP where crafted sets are very viable and popular and you can save some money by injecting proper style during crafting (especially for weapons those are 6k cost in outfit system, like ebony, ebonshadow and many others).
Now you may want to talk about enchanting materials and trait materials, especially named as different valuable gems, but which cost 0 or 1 at vendors and nobody needs them cause they drop so often when deconstructing something while leveling crafting.0 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ill just make one thread for 3 topics, because theyre closely related.
1. Should style materials be used for transmogs instead of gold/outfit tokens?
All style materials are pretty much completley useless since transmogs came. It was a very good change, but very badly implemented. One of the actually stupidest things ive witnessed so far in this game, is that transmogs cost pure gold, instead of using the style materials, which would continue to give them a use, or at least the materials AND gold. Also, the amount of gold it costs for some styles just seems completley random. Like... 6000 gold for the GLASS style that (hopefully) noone on the planet uses because its really, really ugly, but "only" 3000 for Dremora which looks alright? Honestly...
How in the everloving mudcrab did NOONE from ZOS come up with this in my eyes very simple, logical idea? I really cant understand... i really dont have a single clue about gamedesign, programming or anything related, but i feel like even i could do a better job at designing these things then paid people who do this work daily, and that really is quite sad. Does noone in the team have ANY sense of game design or are capable of basic logical thinking? Im really not trying to be mean here, but thats seriously how ZOS looks with things like this, how do they still get paid for this?
2. Should style materials that you need 10 smaller materials for be changed?
In my eyes, it just makes the list of materials from every crafting table longer... and nothing else. Its just a nuisance. Every single material that needs 10 smaller materials is not rare or qualified enough to need that. Why need 10 dried blood to make 1 tainted blood, if you could just give us the 1 tainted blood? Its not that rare in any case, and it wont ever be.
3. Should on which char you learn style pages matter anymore?
When you learn style pages on a character, only that character can build things in that style, and gets the achivements for those styles... but every char on the account can use them for transmogs, which, again, makes crafting the styles pretty much unimportant in the first place. Why not make at least this fully account bound? So it wouldnt matter on which char you read a style page, it would give every character the achivements (read the page/book), crafting and transmog style. This also would negate issues like when you maybe accidentaly learn a style on the wrong character, and that style maybe was worth a lot, but you dont want/need it on that char.
Also, 2 more small topics i just want to mention again while im at it, many staff styles dont face forwards, which makes them basically unused by everyone, because it looks stupid, this really should be fixed, and there are much too many styles in my opinion... over 70-80 now? I mean... why? Many of them look SO similar, Outlaw=Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood=Assasins Guild=Morag Tong, etc. Does anyone else feel this way? I understand they want to make money, but... is the money they pay the designers for designing those styles (with a lot of flaws) really comparable to the amount they make from them? Might be, i dont know, but it just doesnt feel like it, at least not anymore...
Keep in mind that this is only my opinion before you pull out the pikes and torches, sad that i have to meintion it, but i know i have to, and i know it probably wont make a diffrence, this will get flooded with hate. But feel free to discuss and commentate.
Why on on Akatosh's green Nirn, would you want to reduce the customisation options for styling our characters? Bizzare, I love the variety and breadth of options available, its part of what makes ESO aesthetically so pleasing.
I also dont mind staffs that do not face forwards, the ones that are upright are fine, its a different look and allows further personalisation of our characters.0 -
Coatmagic✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Should style materials be used for transmogs instead of gold/outfit tokens?
Nice idea, but you're hitting them in the Crown shop and that's an obvious no-no xD2. Should style materials that you need 10 smaller materials for be changed?
Is it a dumb system? Yes. Should they change it? Probably not, since they can't seem to change things without breaking others and it's really not that big an issue.3. Should on which char you learn style pages matter anymore?
Okay, style pages (gold containers) are different from motif books and motif pages (purple pages).
Style pages (gold containers) are already account-wide as there is no way to track them in an achievment or put them in your bank to learn on one character.
It would have been nice had motifs been account-wide from the start, but as there are achievments connected with the collection of these, I see no way for them to change this without a major overhaul and that is just asking for trouble.(4) many staff styles dont face forwards, which makes them basically unused by everyone, because it looks stupid, this really should be fixed
Yes, please!(5) there are much too many styles in my opinion...
Nope. They may look similiar but they all tend to dye differently and have a place in someone's heart and ZoS has already made a shambles of certain beloved styles as it is.
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Avrael✭✭✭✭To clarify, with style pages i meant motif pages and motif books, had no idea there was a diffrence."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First i wanted to write long and elaborate answers to both of you, all of that was very detailed and im thankfull for that... but honestly after reading it and realizing (once again) that the truth is just to make a game garbage so you can sell things that make it SLIGHTLY better, makes me physically sick and i wanna throw up... i think maybe i just need to stop playing this game, or games at all for that matter. I still think ZOS maybe will one day listen to some players, but thats not gonna happen, idk why i still try.First i wanted to write long and elaborate answers to both of you, all of that was very detailed and im thankfull for that... but honestly after reading it and realizing (once again) that the truth is just to make a game garbage so you can sell things that make it SLIGHTLY better, makes me physically sick and i wanna throw up... i think maybe i just need to stop playing this game, or games at all for that matter. I still think ZOS maybe will one day listen to some players, but thats not gonna happen, idk why i still try.
Sorry for being so depressing.
ESO is an excellent game as long as you can accept it for what it is, which does include a fair bit of deliberate monetization.Edited by VaranisArano on August 9, 2019 11:05AM0 -
Avrael✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano Dont worry, its not your fault, its just how games, companies and things are in general today. I really want to like this game, i REALLY do... but the devs themselves dont like or care about this game at all, so i dont know why im still hoping for things that will never happen, again, i really should stop that."I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."0