Problems staying alive in battlegrounds on my stamblade

festher · July 2019

My setup is 2 full set on both bars. Spriggans (armor) and Briarheart (weapons/jewlery). 2h/bow with Slimecraw. Inpen on all armor pieces, except for shoulder/head. Nothing golded
I know this could be better but im sure in prober hands this could work out pretty well. But my time to kill is like 2-3 maybe 5 sec and then im dropped in many 1v1 or 1v2 fights (BGs)

i feel much less comfortable on my stamblade which kinda results in me going defensiv already from the beginning, hitting vigor and dodge rolling into a fear already from the fight starts due to many deaths

ive watched a lot of videos but it hasent really helped much. i feel i take a TON more damage than ppl in the 1vX videos etc.
i pvp in battlegrounds and i think there might be a lot of super dedicated pvpers... and also many glas canons… but still i should do better!

Tips and hints are appreciated because i really wanna make stam work.
So far i fixed my "problem" playing my magblade and magdk. i feel good on those classes, dotting people up and they allow me to both play defensiv and put out pressure at the same time on distance which obviously is a lot more safe on distance. also my armor on the magdk is more defensiv (armor master/necro)

thx in advance

ChunkyCat · July 2019

You’re the best opponent to fight.

Keep up the good work.

Abhaya · July 2019

Your build is full glass cannon. If you aren’t ganking or able to disengage with cloak you should consider building for some defense.

mursie · July 2019

despite the increased survivability of stamblade with the defensive 15% mitigation on relentless focus, it still is on the lower end of survival in battlegrounds where the majority of battles take place in aoe infested ball groups.

You basically need to assess what you want to do on a stamblade. If you are interested in ganking from the sidelines on strays that wander to far from the pack, then go full dmg like you have done with slimecraw / spriggans / and another dmg set. shade and cloak constantly to keep yourself out of harms way and only engage when it is a good gank to be had.

The problem is, in bg's this opportunity becomes less and less available the more you play and the higher the skill level of your opponents. You'll basically feel like you're sitting on the sidelines of bg's the majority of time very rarely engaging anyone because no one leaves the aoe infested protection of their ball groups.

That leads us to looking into brawler type builds. Essentials to competing in this area are: major evasion, relentless focus mitigation, potentially a minor maim tool such as heroic slash or shade, minor protection such as temporal guard or dark cloak and maybe even major protection via black rose prison.

Lastly, there is the issue of the very small uptime on major ward (the 5300 armor buff that most classes have a 20+ second ability uptime for) that NB typically lacks. In 5+ medium armor, your ward only procs when you use a shadow ability like surprise attack or cloak and is up for 7 to 8 seconds tops. This means you have a lot of opportunities for downtime on 5300 armor making you squishy as hell. a solution to this problem - perhaps mighty chudan.

Now that you've fully bastardized your nightblade in order to play the brawler grounds that are bg's, and created a scuffed DK that will never be as good as the stamDK itself, you are able to compete in an average to below average brawler fashion to your templar, dk, and warden counterparts. congratulations.

so - with all of that said, here is a build that will allow you to feel more "brawler' and survivable while hopefully dishing some dmg.

back bar the DW black rose prison. slot quick cloak for major evasion, major expedition, and major protection. WOW!
also slot relentless focus for 15% mitigation, shade for minor maim 15% mitigation, and temporal guard for 8% minor protection. Put on 2pc mighty chudan for full uptime on ward. you can also go bloodspawn if you trust your ability to continually weave a cloak and a surprise attack into gameplay for ward uptime instead.
On the front bar use a 2H like spriggan and pair it with a good 5pc body set like shacklebreaker. you can go super greedy and pair spriggan with essence thief but be prepared to hate yourself everytime a kill slips away while you are chasing a rune proc. Ambush your target for 8% minor vulnerability on the dw bar. apply rending slash. head to the 2h bar and cloak into a surprise attack to apply a stun. From there, whittle your target down with light attack surprise attack weaves until you can execute with either killer's blade or executioner. incap your dmg as needed and perhaps spectral bow where warranted.

hope this helps.

Iskiab · July 2019

Never go Chudan on a NB, ‘OH THE INHUMANITY’!

Some things I’d try... though when I tried Stamblade I didn’t like it and was terrible. Thing you have to realize is 99% of Stamblades hang out in CP pvp cyrodiil, and the same spec is trash in no-CP and BGs.

Try Bloodspawn, Sprigans or Briarheat, plus Shacklebreaker.

Heavy chest, heavy helm or legs, rest medium.

S&B plus x

Use dark cloak as a buff. Always keep it up, when it’s down your shadow passive is down.

Shadowy Disguise is great against beginner pvpers, because they typically try specs like yours that are really squishy. If someone tanks up they become ungankable, like I’ve been ganked twice in 6 months and I blame the lag in cyrodiil. I’m in cyrodiil and BGs maybe 20 hours a week, so that’s 2 successful ganks in maybe 200 attempts.

raasdal · July 2019

Heavy Armor + Troll King + Lingering Health/Stam/Health Pot.

Full Recovery on Enchants.

Then you can choose any two offensive sets you like and whatever mundus you feel fits.

Royalthought · July 2019

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Waffennacht · July 2019

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

Iskiab · July 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

Nevasca · July 2019

Never go 2x Chudan on NB, you should be using your shadow skills anyway... If you keep up Dark Cloak with 100% uptime, you will always have major resists up since you usually go 5m+2h. Alternatively you could go 5h too for an easy uptime if you really prefer it. NBs have good health recovery passives, so heavy armor + TK + NB passives is actually a really good combo, pair with 7th+Steed and once TK procs it's like you have a second more powerful vigor ticking.

On glass cannon builds, the true problem is knowing when you can go in, and when you can't. IMO the key to this playstyle, is not to think too much about kills or damage, but rather on survival. You're specced heavily in damage, you will eventually do a lot of it, you just need to be alive on key moments to time your engage with your team. There will also be matches that you can't really kill anything by yourself because the enemy healer is a god (or just using transmutation... I love and hate that set)

You can definitly go a more brawlerish AoE build with NB now, Power Extraction buffs made it really strong, you could even replace surprise attack with it. If you're using DW, try having one of your weapons with charged so you can proc Major Defile since it's disease damage, that's really good group utility. I feel like for BGs DW/Bow works really well, DW/2H is also pretty good. I don't like S/B for NBs this patch to be honest, it feels like you don't hit hard enough.

You could also try a ranged setup, Bombard is really good group utility with their snares, you can be really annoying with snipes and kiting, survivability is pretty decent because of your range, speed and invisibility. Played right and you're damn annoying for the enemy team.

Iskiab · July 2019

^ This is really good advice for CP pvp. For no-CP S&B’s fine and replace Troll King with Bloodspawn. No-CP is burstier so troll king doesn’t work well.

festher · July 2019

Thanks for all the advices. i underestand i have created true glas canon without really wanted it and just die before i can really get it to use. Also my Magdk is in fact using Inpreg/shacklebreaker with 1h/shield on the back bar so when i get too much attention i throw on my shield and now sit on 24k/20k resistance with 27k hp and 4400 crit resist. So no wander my magdk feel a lot stronger...

(my necro set is ofc on the warden, not the dk as i wrote to begin with)

Anyway thanks again, ill find a new set for my NB maybe 2 new with a lot more defense. He is like naked with his 12k/10k resist and only 1800k crit resist. I need room for more mistakes for now lol

No_Division · July 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

The allure of defense is also a curse if you want to deal dmg/get kills. find your optimal survivability/regen you are most comfortable with then stack dmg hard.

Kel · July 2019

You're all offense and no defense.

Defense wins championships.

Abhaya · July 2019

Something I am trying on my stam sorc is to run 1 piece pirate skeleton and 1 piece mighty chudan for the resistance bonus. You sacrifice your monster set but it gives me enough defense to run 2 damage sets. Bloodspawn objectively provides more but the pirate skeleton / chudan combo means that you have the resistance at all times compared to bloodspawn’s proc. Running 5 medium, 2 heavy puts me just over 25k resists. Slap impen on everything, run temporal guard and defensive trait on back bar if you are just using it for utility anyways, and you have yourself a decent balance between offense and defense. Sustain would be the biggest issue but mine gets up to 1700 still with CP, lava foot food, and major endurance from tri-pots.

Iskiab · July 2019

No_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

The allure of defense is also a curse if you want to deal dmg/get kills. find your optimal survivability/regen you are most comfortable with then stack dmg hard.

Yea true, but for BGs you don’t often have to be able to kill someone solo. I find it’s more effective to protect yourself from burst with mitigation and assist others.

I solo queue as a healer & damage mix and have noticed my team often does worse when we get a late addition to the team in a glass canon spec. They’ll soak up the majority of the healing and at the same time be be unhealable and prone to getting bursted. I’ll have to adapt and not use a lot of single target heal abilities when they’re taking damage until they’re dead, and try and recover when they’re down. You can also typically know how well someone will do before a BG starts, if they’re under 21k health they aren’t going to do much.

Specs require balance to do well, no defense just doesn’t work... at least in BGs.

NuarBlack · July 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

The allure of defense is also a curse if you want to deal dmg/get kills. find your optimal survivability/regen you are most comfortable with then stack dmg hard.

Yea true, but for BGs you don’t often have to be able to kill someone solo. I find it’s more effective to protect yourself from burst with mitigation and assist others.

I solo queue as a healer & damage mix and have noticed my team often does worse when we get a late addition to the team in a glass canon spec. They’ll soak up the majority of the healing and at the same time be be unhealable and prone to getting bursted. I’ll have to adapt and not use a lot of single target heal abilities when they’re taking damage until they’re dead, and try and recover when they’re down. You can also typically know how well someone will do before a BG starts, if they’re under 21k health they aren’t going to do much.

Specs require balance to do well, no defense just doesn’t work... at least in BGs.

As a rule I agree but certain classes can pull off being a glass cannon better than others. Specifically I feel like light armor builds do better at being glass cannons than medium. In BGs and no CP I feel like penetration from LA passives is better than increased weapon damage from medium. Penetration is just king for damage in no cp and it directly counters the tank meta. With spinners, sharpened, breach and LA passives you can stack a significant amount of penetration making your damage quite staggering. And in team fights getting a surprising quick kill early can tilt things in your favor but you are definitely a team build that needs to stay with teammates and hopefully get them to peel for you.

Iskiab · July 2019

NuarBlack wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

The allure of defense is also a curse if you want to deal dmg/get kills. find your optimal survivability/regen you are most comfortable with then stack dmg hard.

Yea true, but for BGs you don’t often have to be able to kill someone solo. I find it’s more effective to protect yourself from burst with mitigation and assist others.

I solo queue as a healer & damage mix and have noticed my team often does worse when we get a late addition to the team in a glass canon spec. They’ll soak up the majority of the healing and at the same time be be unhealable and prone to getting bursted. I’ll have to adapt and not use a lot of single target heal abilities when they’re taking damage until they’re dead, and try and recover when they’re down. You can also typically know how well someone will do before a BG starts, if they’re under 21k health they aren’t going to do much.

Specs require balance to do well, no defense just doesn’t work... at least in BGs.

As a rule I agree but certain classes can pull off being a glass cannon better than others. Specifically I feel like light armor builds do better at being glass cannons than medium. In BGs and no CP I feel like penetration from LA passives is better than increased weapon damage from medium. Penetration is just king for damage in no cp and it directly counters the tank meta. With spinners, sharpened, breach and LA passives you can stack a significant amount of penetration making your damage quite staggering. And in team fights getting a surprising quick kill early can tilt things in your favor but you are definitely a team build that needs to stay with teammates and hopefully get them to peel for you.

Yea I agree. The best builds I’ve seen being a glass canon was a stamsorc bow and a stamwarden bow though.

One person was playing a stamsorc and using streak to kite people. The stamwarden was using shimmering shield to absorb projectiles and using some heals.

Some Magsorcs are good at balancing Offense and Defense is glassy builds, but for the most part if a glass canon sorc gets charged by melee they’ll just shield stack to stay alive as long as possible, but always end up dying.

I’ve had teams of me and 3 sorcs. One or two stam melee will charge the group, and I’ll watch the sorcs not even do damage and just shield stack, then lack the sustain to keep fighting. I always think to myself why am I bothering to heal these guys, they aren’t even doing damage and just waiting to die. It’s like they get paralyzed when outside their comfort zone of setting up with a burst combo while hiding behind tankier players.

NuarBlack · July 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

No_Division wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

The allure of defense is also a curse if you want to deal dmg/get kills. find your optimal survivability/regen you are most comfortable with then stack dmg hard.

Yea true, but for BGs you don’t often have to be able to kill someone solo. I find it’s more effective to protect yourself from burst with mitigation and assist others.

I solo queue as a healer & damage mix and have noticed my team often does worse when we get a late addition to the team in a glass canon spec. They’ll soak up the majority of the healing and at the same time be be unhealable and prone to getting bursted. I’ll have to adapt and not use a lot of single target heal abilities when they’re taking damage until they’re dead, and try and recover when they’re down. You can also typically know how well someone will do before a BG starts, if they’re under 21k health they aren’t going to do much.

Specs require balance to do well, no defense just doesn’t work... at least in BGs.

As a rule I agree but certain classes can pull off being a glass cannon better than others. Specifically I feel like light armor builds do better at being glass cannons than medium. In BGs and no CP I feel like penetration from LA passives is better than increased weapon damage from medium. Penetration is just king for damage in no cp and it directly counters the tank meta. With spinners, sharpened, breach and LA passives you can stack a significant amount of penetration making your damage quite staggering. And in team fights getting a surprising quick kill early can tilt things in your favor but you are definitely a team build that needs to stay with teammates and hopefully get them to peel for you.

Yea I agree. The best builds I’ve seen being a glass canon was a stamsorc bow and a stamwarden bow though.

One person was playing a stamsorc and using streak to kite people. The stamwarden was using shimmering shield to absorb projectiles and using some heals.

Some Magsorcs are good at balancing Offense and Defense is glassy builds, but for the most part if a glass canon sorc gets charged by melee they’ll just shield stack to stay alive as long as possible, but always end up dying.

I’ve had teams of me and 3 sorcs. One or two stam melee will charge the group, and I’ll watch the sorcs not even do damage and just shield stack, then lack the sustain to keep fighting. I always think to myself why am I bothering to heal these guys, they aren’t even doing damage and just waiting to die. It’s like they get paralyzed when outside their comfort zone of setting up with a burst combo while hiding behind tankier players.

Warden in general is good for glass cannon cause of shimmering shield as it eliminates an entire aspect of combat defensively almost. I have had lots of success on kiting magden cause shimmering shield is so effective against ranged threats. Plus heals on warden are great for both stam and mag.

My stam sorc is vicious running automaton and spriggans but I use Ice heart or Bloodspawn as the monster set so still a little defensive building.

I've dinked off on a mean magdk heavy attack glass cannon build that lights people up if left alone as it uses wings similar to shimmering to give significant mitigation to one aspect of combat. But can't say it's viable against good players.

The common thread is you have to avoid a lot of damage by playing at range or utilizing streak/mobility. So a cloaky melee NB just doesn't work well unless you can isolate and gank 1v1.

Metemsycosis · August 2019

bgs is all about stam regen for nb. Your class skills already hit hard. Regen+ speed and don't crutch cloak but rather use it judiciously.

Go farm medium bloodspawn or engine guardian if you have yet to.

Dmurr854b16_ESO · August 2019

I run DW/Bow BB

SA, rending slashes, PE, execute, cloak FB
Lethal arrow, poison injection, Grim Focus, mark, Vigor BB

I run 5 sprig, 5 briar, (both active on front and back bar) agility daggers, Agi bow (can’t get masters to drop from vma. All golded.

Ran a bg tonight crazy king. 2500 score, 29 kills, 1 death, 11 assists. 850k damage (game was short). Notice I don’t run AOE other than PE which I’m using to proc 20% weapon damage and not spamming.

Keep grim up all times, Vigor into cloaks and pressure. People die before you get close.

If you get focused and don’t evade well you will die. Get used to dodge rolling and Vigor cloaking into more pressure. Pots to get a burst heal off. Profit.

Waffennacht · August 2019

@Dmurr854b16_ESO not sure if that was a mistake in spelling or not; but just to be sure, vMA will never drop masters, that comes from vDSA

PoseidonEvil · August 2019

Iskiab wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

It's honestly the class design. They've faulted on it's direction.

It lacks in AoE/group utility yet it's supposed to make up for it in single target lethality.

However the players on classes with superior aoe/group utility wanted it nerfed and their classes equal to or superior in single target.

That happened.

BG's are often AoE fests where those other classes also shine. Which can make cloak and dodgeroll useless. So either go high damage and pick weaker targets from outside the big brawls or build for tankiness.

Nb best PvP heal requires it to drop it's signature defense cloak so.... Lol.

Essentially this. I doubt you'll out brawl a DK or Warden etc

I'd go for an Archer (not ganker cuz that's not my thing) and either plink with your group or draw someone into a 1v1

This is the conventional wisdom given out, but I’ve seen brawler Stamblades who did really well. They’re as rare as heck, but effective.

yep, cant remember his name but I dueled one the other night. roughly 5-6 times ( all 10minute or longer duels ) he was a pretty tanky NB with decent damage too.

kaithuzar · August 2019

Go full cheese mode & swap a set for meridia’s.
Then use the bow knock back ability & enjoy using the cancer that ZOS has allowed in game