Dealing with cheaters...
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Jagdkommando✭✭✭✭
Yes bots are not good thing, but do you know what does inflation mean??Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
You are wrong becuase bots are used to create gold and sell it. The more they sell gold the higher inflation. The higher inflation the more everything cost. So no things do not get cheaper with bots.
Which by the way botters try to force inflation because then they can sell more gold. Farm bots are never a good thing in an mmo.
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jagdkommando wrote: »
Yes bots are not good thing, but do you know what does inflation mean??Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
You are wrong becuase bots are used to create gold and sell it. The more they sell gold the higher inflation. The higher inflation the more everything cost. So no things do not get cheaper with bots.
Which by the way botters try to force inflation because then they can sell more gold. Farm bots are never a good thing in an mmo.
You might want to look at some wars as a good example. The practice of adding bills to cause inflation was even used in the revolutionary war by England with moderate sucess. So yes adding currency to a market can and usually does cause inflation. It is a pretty accepted principle actually.Edited by Skwor on July 30, 2019 2:35AM3 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jagdkommando wrote: »
Yes bots are not good thing, but do you know what does inflation mean??Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
You are wrong becuase bots are used to create gold and sell it. The more they sell gold the higher inflation. The higher inflation the more everything cost. So no things do not get cheaper with bots.
Which by the way botters try to force inflation because then they can sell more gold. Farm bots are never a good thing in an mmo.
Yes, and unless you have a masters in economics AND a JD, better than you probably do.
You might want to look at some wars as a good example. The practice of adding bills to cause inflation was even used in the revolutionary war by England with moderate sucess. So yes adding currency to a market can and usually does cause inflation. It is a pretty accepted principle actually.
Actually, that depends on the bots and what they're farming.
If they're farming mats, they'll actually drive down prices by flooding the market, as no new in-game currency is created through farming mats (unless the bots vendor those mats, but that would make little economic sense). So those bots are simply pooling in-game gold from other players. There could be some inflation due to guild buyers being able to purchase large amounts of in-game gold, and therefore being willing to pay more than the market value. But that's assuming players buy gold to purchase items in guild stores and not from NPCs such as rare furniture merchants. I don't think this could drive a great deal of inflation.
The true problem is bots farming mobs, which drop gold and other loot that it makes sense to vendor. All the looted gold and the gold obtained from NPCs is added to all the other gold already in the game. Increasing the amount of currency in circulation is where inflation can really get out of hand.
Still, a game may have gold farmers and no inflation issues if adequate gold sinks remove the right amount of gold circulation.
TL;DR: bots are annoying and can damage a game's economy, but bots=inflation is a bit of an oversimplification.1 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
You are wrong becuase bots are used to create gold and sell it. The more they sell gold the higher inflation. The higher inflation the more everything cost. So no things do not get cheaper with bots.
Which by the way botters try to force inflation because then they can sell more gold. Farm bots are never a good thing in an mmo.
This sounds wrong. It works like this (in any economy not just mmo's): The more goods produced and sold into the market the lower the inflation, that is the lower the prices. Obviously more goods create more competition forcing sellers to lower their prices if they want their goods sold. Conversely the more gold is produced out of thin air by selling looted items to npc merchants for gold the higher the inflation (basically gold printing). Regular players does both so why wouldnt bots too, but I think with all the node farming bots we see it has to by far be mostly the former: a heightened production of goods thus lower prices. Mind that is not all good right? Players wanting to farm to sell to other players will earn a lot less for their hard work. But for the rest that needs to get their hands on mats to create gear, pots etc, vastly lower prices has to be an advantage for them.
In a real world situation bots are fantastic for the economy, it's more stuff for us humans to sweeten our lives with less effort in procuring it (because robots make it instead), in an mmo not so much primarily because it is cheating and it ruins immersion. But IRL you do also still see people having fears of robots taking over their livelihoods.Edited by Jayman1000 on July 30, 2019 12:09AM1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jayman1000 wrote: »Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
You are wrong becuase bots are used to create gold and sell it. The more they sell gold the higher inflation. The higher inflation the more everything cost. So no things do not get cheaper with bots.
Which by the way botters try to force inflation because then they can sell more gold. Farm bots are never a good thing in an mmo.
This sounds wrong. It works like this (in any economy not just mmo's): The more goods produced and sold into the market the lower the inflation, that is the lower the prices. Obviously more goods create more competition forcing sellers to lower their prices if they want their goods sold. Conversely the more gold is produced out of thin air by selling looted items to npc merchants for gold the higher the inflation (basically gold printing). Regular players does both so why wouldnt bots too, but I think with all the node farming bots we see it has to by far be mostly the former: a heightened production of goods thus lower prices. Mind that is not all good right? Players wanting to farm to sell to other players will earn a lot less for their hard work. But for the rest that needs to get their hands on mats to create gear, pots etc, vastly lower prices has to be an advantage for them.
In a real world situation bots are fantastic for the economy, it's more stuff for us humans to sweeten our lives with less effort in procuring it (because robots make it instead), in an mmo not so much primarily because it is cheating and it ruins immersion. But IRL you do also still see people having fears of robots taking over their livelihoods.
There are gold bots snd they are working for the same people as the mat bots. The gold bots add alot of gold into the game.
Also You are assuming the farmers are flooding the market with no bottom. They are not. They are very much controlling it. The problem is they push the commons to the vendor price making it near valueless to an average player and very much drive up the prices of rares that they refine for.
If what you said was true the gold mats should be much lower in price. Yet they are not.
I myself have been able to shift gold mat prices up a small amount and I am only 1 player. I do farm and refine 20k mats a week on average but that is chump change to bot farmers.
And regardless it would still be better for players if there were no bots and they(zen) managed the farm rate for players instead of letting a third party rip players off.
No need for bots to do it, that leaves them in control over the players economy.
Oh and bots on wall street were very much a bad thing they artificially inflated stocks. That is another story though.Edited by Skwor on July 30, 2019 1:29AM0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭you do know however once MMO's reach a certain limit of player capacity its actually bad to ban bots, as they account for the majority of materials farmed and re-purposed for the active player base. I like cornflower as much as the next tryhard but id rather buy a stack of pots a bot farmed. Rather than spend 2 days farming out 400 of those sparse Blue fudgers to supply my weekend raiding schedule. Just food for thought.
Untrue, bots distort both supply and demand.0 -
SocialAssassin✭✭✭They probably did do something, but it takes a lot less time to create a new account and run it to any of the farms to start again.
They just rubber band heavy attack and collect the scraps and then whoever is playing all of the accounts, periodically moves them individually.
Rubber Band? Does it involve an actual rubber band?“I’m The Best There Is At What I Do. But What I Do Isn't Very Nice…” - Wolverine/Logan/James Howlett0 -
Heyodude✭✭✭you do know however once MMO's reach a certain limit of player capacity its actually bad to ban bots, as they account for the majority of materials farmed and re-purposed for the active player base. I like cornflower as much as the next tryhard but id rather buy a stack of pots a bot farmed. Rather than spend 2 days farming out 400 of those sparse Blue fudgers to supply my weekend raiding schedule. Just food for thought.
Total garbage. The output of nods can be adjusted to address such an issue.
All you are doing is justifying cheating, there is no good reason to allow anyone to have such an advantage over another.
lol you increase the nodes, accounts increase their bots accordingly, the node count at eso year one was significantly higher, static nodes. and so was the bot problem.
You dont have to like it, but its true, Other MMO developers have actually capitalized their bots by making them legal only if those respective accounts pay the game a premium for the privilege. Every MMOs population encounters this problem and take one of two options, either the above mentioned scheme, the other being a purely optics win of minimal effort addressing the problem. Otherwise combating bots would require a *** ton of money as a group of 30 or so developers vs limited up to theoretically the real worlds population.
Now assign a dollar invested to rooting out and deleting every in game bot, thats a dollar you dont get back, however the bots are infinite, your ledgers wont hold up against that type of commitment.
You are attempting to change your whole premise now which was we need bots in a large MMO to supply raw resources.
Obviously that is not the case otherwise your above post would have refuted mine based on that premise instead of now claiming we have to live with it becuase "really" bots are to hard to stop.
First no they are not. Second it is pointless to engage any further with you as you have demonstrated you cannot even debate your own reasoning and instead resort to changing you whole argumeny mid discussion. I woul quote the logical fallacy you employed but honestly I am tired of pointing those out on these forums they gave become so abundent.
lol you just made up your own rules for a thread discussion because you dont have any intellectual response for what i said gg man.Edited by Heyodude on July 31, 2019 1:18AM1 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SocialAssassin wrote: »They probably did do something, but it takes a lot less time to create a new account and run it to any of the farms to start again.
They just rubber band heavy attack and collect the scraps and then whoever is playing all of the accounts, periodically moves them individually.
Rubber Band? Does it involve an actual rubber band?
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kip_silverwolf✭✭✭✭✭Jagdkommando wrote: »Bots aren't so bad, cuz more bots we have, less the prices will be for us, and less manual work.
Bots are cheating. Fullstop, end of story. I don't like to play with cheaters, do you?
I used to think there were many bots on PC NA, until I played on Xbox NA - the sheer amount of bots there put PC botting to shame. There have been times where I have seen 2 or 3 bots camping ore nodes on Xbox, not just in popular zones like Bal Foyen but also in less popular places.
I do try & report every one. On PC this is easy for me as I use an add-on to do it. On Xbox though I find it a lot more time consuming & usually give up after I've done the 6th or 7th report."I'm going to live forever..or at least die trying"
drunken Nord & Tamriel streaker since Arena2