Azura created the Khajiit? This is such crap.
Hazurko_RaShan
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Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra. Other than that, they tend to keep quiet. But you can hear the bards blathering about Lorkhan's internal organs in every tavern. So, you've got that going for you.4 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You won't find Aedra in this game...or any TES game for that matter. The closest you'll get is an avatar of Akatosh in TES IV: Oblivion. There are more reasons for that which I will not spoil for you.Edited by The_Lex on July 29, 2019 2:39PM4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You won't find Aedra in this game...or any TES game for that matter. The closest you'll get is an avatar of Akatosh in TES IV: Oblivion. There are more reasons for that which I will not spoil for you.
Several of the divines personally show up in TES3, including Talos... if you know what to look for. They're a lot more subtle than the daedra, most of the time. An aspect of Talos also pops up in TES4... though, if you don't know your lore, you'll probably miss that encounter as well.
And then, of course, there's the Shezzarine theory about The Last Dragonborn.5 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
Everywhere and nowhere. That's kinda the thing with the Aedra and Daedra. The Aedra can't make an appearance because they sacrificed a part of themselves to make Mundus. The Daedra did not and can happily make appearances.
Azura is also considered one of the "good" daedric princes. Not that it matters because the khajiit sees Azurah as a different entity. Like most of their gods. So in that matter they aren't considered daedra worshippers. Being a daedra worshipper isn't always a bad thing either. Many races of Tamriel worship deadras in some way.
[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!11 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra. Other than that, they tend to keep quiet. But you can hear the bards blathering about Lorkhan's internal organs in every tavern. So, you've got that going for you.
She was but she's not since a long time ^^During the Dawn Era, Meridia was known as Merid-Nunda, an Aedra. After Lorkhan's true intentions were discovered, Merid-Nunda fled Mundus along with Magnus and became one of the Magna Ge. After consorting with Daedra, Merid-Nunda was cast down, and in turn became the Daedric Prince Meridia.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra. Other than that, they tend to keep quiet. But you can hear the bards blathering about Lorkhan's internal organs in every tavern. So, you've got that going for you.
She was but she's not since a long time ^^During the Dawn Era, Meridia was known as Merid-Nunda, an Aedra. After Lorkhan's true intentions were discovered, Merid-Nunda fled Mundus along with Magnus and became one of the Magna Ge. After consorting with Daedra, Merid-Nunda was cast down, and in turn became the Daedric Prince Meridia.
What is time to a creature that exists outside of our concept of a universe?
Though, also, as recently as the Summerset main quest, Dawnbreaker still counted as an Aedric artifact. So, ****'s weird.1 -
dcam86b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Meridia is a POS
theres a reason. she was tossed out by the magnagi
shes a wicked one and is only in it for vanity. Dont be fooled.1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra. Other than that, they tend to keep quiet. But you can hear the bards blathering about Lorkhan's internal organs in every tavern. So, you've got that going for you.
She was but she's not since a long time ^^During the Dawn Era, Meridia was known as Merid-Nunda, an Aedra. After Lorkhan's true intentions were discovered, Merid-Nunda fled Mundus along with Magnus and became one of the Magna Ge. After consorting with Daedra, Merid-Nunda was cast down, and in turn became the Daedric Prince Meridia.
Everyone is someone in this series.
PS: if you do the Imperial City questline, there are 8 individuals with suspicious personalities in the Noble District.Edited by driosketch on July 29, 2019 3:09PMMain: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
SassiestAssassin✭✭✭This is not new lore. Check out ‘Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi‘, a book found in Morrowind and Skyrim (and UESP, js.) It’s a creation tale of Khajiit.Edited by SassiestAssassin on July 29, 2019 3:09PM*slams a gallon of Respecting Support Roles juice on the table* Take a sip, babes.4 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The common Khajiit populace has mostly stopped believing in Azurah and instead follow Baan Dar, Rahjin etc. I would guess the Trickster God is more exciting than the Cat Mother.
Even still Azurah is one of the benevolent Daedric Princes. She holds no ill intent for Mortals and has a fierce, passionate love for her followers. No need to despise one who doesn't despise you.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!6 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers? Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra. Other than that, they tend to keep quiet. But you can hear the bards blathering about Lorkhan's internal organs in every tavern. So, you've got that going for you.
She was but she's not since a long time ^^During the Dawn Era, Meridia was known as Merid-Nunda, an Aedra. After Lorkhan's true intentions were discovered, Merid-Nunda fled Mundus along with Magnus and became one of the Magna Ge. After consorting with Daedra, Merid-Nunda was cast down, and in turn became the Daedric Prince Meridia.
What is time to a creature that exists outside of our concept of a universe?
Though, also, as recently as the Summerset main quest, Dawnbreaker still counted as an Aedric artifact. So, ****'s weird.
Every thing is always weird with Daedric and Aedric stuff mate ^^'[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Since the Daedra just copy things, it’s hard to imagine them creating something new."Get off my lawn!"1 -
Erelah✭✭✭✭I think the largest thing to remember is that the Adrea and Dadera are both the same sort of creature. The words Adrea being elvish meaning our ancestors and Dadera meaning not our ancestors. Mer claim to come from the Adera (Akatosh in particular). aside from the Dunmer who believe the opposite.
Now all of the Elder Scrolls series takes place after Akatosh is in charge, however before that we know the Mer worshiped all the Dadera. Once the Alessian rebellion was successful Akatosh made a deal with her to keep the Dadera out. This last part is to say at that point in time the Divines took over.
This lays the ground work to answer the OPs first question.
Akatosh is as bad as any Dadera. I think we all agree Akatosh's children the Dragons were horrible creatures and treated everyone badly. Then came the elves (claim to be Akatosh's children but further removed the dragons) treated everyone badly. Then came the Dragoborn Emperors who have the souls of dragons (which makes them children of Akatosh in my book) who ruled over everyone. Akatosh has always ruled over Nirn he doesn't care which breed of his children he is in charge. At last with Azura you know she will rip your face off if you call her stupid. Akatosh will just send a new type of child to liberate you.
So why not help the Kajiti, because the Dadera and Adrea are all alike, just use their pawns diffrently.
@ZOS_GinaBruno would you please send this to the lore master so we can find out if offically Akatosh and the Divines are jerks?0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's a tale. How true it is, is up for debate. There's a line how Azura created the "most beautiful and clever" race. Yeah, neither seem Khajiit more intelligent than Altmer and Dunmer, but I really doubt Azura would have chosen cats, EVER-CHANGING cats as a paragon of beauty. She would have probably made something closer to her preferred appearance. Humanoid, fair, with flowers and pretty lights, good (not fishy) scents. And certainly that appearance would be eternal and not change with the moon.
It's a super biased myth and therefore extremely unreliable. I don't buy into it.
As to why the Aedra are so absent, I can think of three reasons.
They were involved in creating the Mundus and weakened themselves significantly. Therefore, they need to rest in Aetherius.
The agreement to leave Mundus mostly alone has to be upheld. The Aedra came up with this, so they have a responsibility to heed that rule.
Daedra cannot create, only change. It is in their nature to influence things, so meddling into Mundus affairs. Aedra CAN and did create - they've played their role already. It's more fitting to their nature to now just sit back and watch how it plays out.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedra cannot create, only change. It is in their nature to influence things, so meddling into Mundus affairs. Aedra CAN and did create - they've played their role already. It's more fitting to their nature to now just sit back and watch how it plays out.
The thing is, the Aedra do poke their heads in and screw around sometime, but they do it in a very different way from the daedra. The Aedra like to use mortal avatars who are unaware of their own divine nature. Then they run around cleaning up a mess, or turning time into doughnuts, and then go back to whatever they were doing before.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Daedra cannot create, only change. It is in their nature to influence things, so meddling into Mundus affairs. Aedra CAN and did create - they've played their role already. It's more fitting to their nature to now just sit back and watch how it plays out.
The thing is, the Aedra do poke their heads in and screw around sometime, but they do it in a very different way from the daedra. The Aedra like to use mortal avatars who are unaware of their own divine nature. Then they run around cleaning up a mess, or turning time into doughnuts, and then go back to whatever they were doing before.
Mmmh... Donuts... x)"""
Yes, I am aware, they do influence things occasionally. But it's not their only nature, and the scarcity of their affairs reflects that. Imagine having an ant colony. You wouldn't interact with your ants, you got one to watch THEM interact with THEMSELVES. You would only take matters in your hand when... I dunno, the caves are caving in and threaten to kill the colony or something. That's how I interpret the Aedra's bahaviour.1 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭starkerealm wrote: »You won't find Aedra in this game...or any TES game for that matter. The closest you'll get is an avatar of Akatosh in TES IV: Oblivion. There are more reasons for that which I will not spoil for you.
Several of the divines personally show up in TES3, including Talos... if you know what to look for. They're a lot more subtle than the daedra, most of the time. An aspect of Talos also pops up in TES4... though, if you don't know your lore, you'll probably miss that encounter as well.
And then, of course, there's the Shezzarine theory about The Last Dragonborn.
Talos is not an Aedra.
The Shezzarine is not an Aedra.
The OP asked about Aedra, not just divines in general.
Disclaimer: Talos is the only divine that truly matters.
Edit: Azura is okay, too.Edited by The_Lex on July 29, 2019 4:05PM1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Depends.Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Why should i help a bunch of Daedra worshipers?
What are they paying?
Some do, some don't.Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »Daedra do nothing but ruin the lives of mortals.
Some of them were considered "good" at some points in time. Others have helped in the past... even if only to mess with their rival daedric princes.
Play it again, willya?Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »And WHERE oh WHERE are the AEDRA in this game? No where, that's where.
There are -several- instances where you gain aedric assistance! May have to refer to Arkay as Tu'whacca instead to call upon his help in cleansing a temple, may have to sacrifice a companion to chennal the power of the divines against Molag Bal, but they are there.
Of course, the daedric princes have -always- been more active and more hands-on in their activities.
Comes with the whole "didn't expend much of their energy to create the mundus" thing...
That's -very- debatable.starkerealm wrote: »I mean, technically Meridia's an Aedra.
More like... a fallen Magna-ge? At least according to some lore...
That one is slightly incorrect.She was but she's not since a long time ^^During the Dawn Era, Meridia was known as Merid-Nunda, an Aedra. After Lorkhan's true intentions were discovered, Merid-Nunda fled Mundus along with Magnus and became one of the Magna Ge. After consorting with Daedra, Merid-Nunda was cast down, and in turn became the Daedric Prince Meridia.
The divine beings before the creaton of the mundus were collectively referred to as "et'Ada" - from them, they split into the Aedra who created the world (tricked into it by Lorkan, we know how that story went... their power drained to create the place, but Lorkan got his as well for it...), the Magna-ge who fled the draining creation and sort of brought magic and possibly the afterlife into existence, and the Daedra who did nothing but keep messing with the world ever since out of envy at not having made such a neat toy themselves.
And yes, there have been some blurrings of the distinctions... like Meridia falled to "daedra" status, or Trinimac becoming Malacath... but in the end, ALL of them are like divine cousins anyhow as children of Anu and Padomay, so...
Yeah. Exactly.starkerealm wrote: »Daedra cannot create, only change. It is in their nature to influence things, so meddling into Mundus affairs. Aedra CAN and did create - they've played their role already. It's more fitting to their nature to now just sit back and watch how it plays out.
The thing is, the Aedra do poke their heads in and screw around sometime, but they do it in a very different way from the daedra. The Aedra like to use mortal avatars who are unaware of their own divine nature. Then they run around cleaning up a mess, or turning time into doughnuts, and then go back to whatever they were doing before.
A daedric prince will send minions and even personally get their hands dirty - because they still have the power to do so.
Aedric forces gave that option up when they created the mundus. And thus act through mortals, divinely empowered. Some just a little bit (as in, every templar we play or meet as NPC), some a bit more, usually done through ritual and sacrifice (since the power to channel this has to come from somewhere) - see final fight with Molag Bal or the conclusion of TES-IV:Oblivion.
But just because they move in more mysterious ways does not mean they are not there!
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ghastley✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Azura did not "create" the Khajiit, any more than she did the Dunmer. What she did was to change one race to become another. The "forest people" became the Khajitt, and the Chimer became the Dunmer. Whether the changes were positive or not depends on the race and opinions of the person telling the tale.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you want an Aedra taking action, go play the Main Quest and the Imperial City Questline. In both cases, you'll note that they work through avatars, not making direct appearances like the Daedra do.0 -
I am not convinced that Azura created the Khajiit. The Khajiit already existed on Tamriel long before Topal the Pilot first encountered him during his expedition to explore Tamriel.
The fact that Topal's text also mentions encountering the Orcs in High Rock leads me to believe that the Beast races(Orcs, Khajiit, Argonians, Limolthi, etc) are the original natives of Tamriel. However, as it was the elves who first brought sophisticated civilization to the continent, the Orcs and Khajiit found it useful to invent creation myths that could tie themselves to Aldmeri culture. So, the Orcs began to see themselves as the transformed descendants of Triminac's followers while the Khajiit found it convenient to claim kinship with their new Bosmer neighbors. It's mostly about trying to fit in with cultures perceived to be more noble and sophisticated.0 -
UnseenCat✭✭✭✭No Aedra at all?? Maybe...
But it has been speculated the M'aiq the Liar could be Lorkhan reincarnated... But of course he'll never confirm that. "M'aiq knows much, and tells some. M'aiq knows many things others do not."0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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She made Dumer look like they did as an punishment as I understand.The common Khajiit populace has mostly stopped believing in Azurah and instead follow Baan Dar, Rahjin etc. I would guess the Trickster God is more exciting than the Cat Mother.
Even still Azurah is one of the benevolent Daedric Princes. She holds no ill intent for Mortals and has a fierce, passionate love for her followers. No need to despise one who doesn't despise you.
As for Khajiit this was done much earlier.
My guess she is an crazy cat lady since she wanted Khajiit of all shapes.
Good news you can manage that to.
No not become an Daedra
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darios_Heliodromos wrote: »I am not convinced that Azura created the Khajiit. The Khajiit already existed on Tamriel long before Topal the Pilot first encountered him during his expedition to explore Tamriel.
The fact that Topal's text also mentions encountering the Orcs in High Rock leads me to believe that the Beast races(Orcs, Khajiit, Argonians, Limolthi, etc) are the original natives of Tamriel. However, as it was the elves who first brought sophisticated civilization to the continent, the Orcs and Khajiit found it useful to invent creation myths that could tie themselves to Aldmeri culture. So, the Orcs began to see themselves as the transformed descendants of Triminac's followers while the Khajiit found it convenient to claim kinship with their new Bosmer neighbors. It's mostly about trying to fit in with cultures perceived to be more noble and sophisticated.
Except Topal's writings in no way precludes the creation myths of the Khajiit. Azura's existance predates the Dawn Era so the Khajiit existing in Tamriel prior to the arrival of the Aldmer does not in anyway disprove their creation myth. The Bosmer also predate the arrival of the Aldmer in Summerset but that is often overlooked. The idea that Bosmer and Khajiit have a shared ancestry is further reinforced by the fact that both races display a natural affinity for shapeshifting, something that no other races possess.1 -
JamuThatsWho✭✭✭✭✭
✭Aedra and Daedra are not synonymous with conventional ideas of "good" and "evil".
They are simply those that helped create the Mundus, and those that didn't.@JamuThatsWho - PC EU - CP2100
Main:
Vasiir-jo - Khajiit Magicka Necromancer, AD
Alts:Sul-Mael Hlarothran - Dunmer Magicka Sorcerer, EP
Ushaar-Ixaht - Argonian Magicka Nightblade, DC
Rorbakh gro-Khraag - Orc Stamina Templar, AD
Anduuroon - Altmer Magicka Warden, EP
Travanius Braelia - Imperial Stamina Dragonknight, DC
Daeralon - Bosmer Stamina Arcanist, AD4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »You won't find Aedra in this game...or any TES game for that matter. The closest you'll get is an avatar of Akatosh in TES IV: Oblivion. There are more reasons for that which I will not spoil for you.
Several of the divines personally show up in TES3, including Talos... if you know what to look for. They're a lot more subtle than the daedra, most of the time. An aspect of Talos also pops up in TES4... though, if you don't know your lore, you'll probably miss that encounter as well.
And then, of course, there's the Shezzarine theory about The Last Dragonborn.
Talos is not an Aedra.
The Shezzarine is not an Aedra.
The OP asked about Aedra, not just divines in general.
Disclaimer: Talos is the only divine that truly matters.
Edit: Azura is okay, too.
Lorkhan is an Aedra.
Shor is an Aedra. (The same Aedra, just under a different name.)
Shezzarines are avatars of either one.
Tiber Septum mantled and became Lorkhan, under a new name.
Disclamer: **** gets weird.0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a tale. How true it is, is up for debate. There's a line how Azura created the "most beautiful and clever" race. Yeah, neither seem Khajiit more intelligent than Altmer and Dunmer, but I really doubt Azura would have chosen cats, EVER-CHANGING cats as a paragon of beauty. She would have probably made something closer to her preferred appearance. Humanoid, fair, with flowers and pretty lights, good (not fishy) scents. And certainly that appearance would be eternal and not change with the moon.
It's a super biased myth and therefore extremely unreliable. I don't buy into it.
Considering Azura's primary sphere of influence is dawn and dusk it wouldn't surprise me if she considers change more 'beautiful', or more appealing than consistency.
Although the khajiit's creation myth doesn't say Azurah created them from scratch - rather she took some of the 'forest people' (children of Nirni, another khajiiti deity) and changed them. Before that the forest people were constantly changing their form, unable to control it, and Azurah took some of them and fashioned them into the forms they would need.
Interestingly the bosmer have a very similar myth about their own origins - they say that Y'ffre told stories to each life form about itself and that determined it's form and stopped it changing constantly. Although the bosmer retain some limited shape shifting abilities under special circumstances (entirely seperate from were beasts, although bosmer can be infected with lycanthropy too).
Y'ffre, and I think technically Nirni too, are part of another group of et'Ada; the Ehlnofey or Earth Bones who decided to support the creation of the Mundus fully, sacrificing themselves and becoming a permanent part of it and the origin of a lot (possibly all) life, unlike the Aedra who withdrew to keep their own identities and the Daedra who had no part in it.
Which brings me back around to the conclusion I always reach when these debates come up: TES lore is far too complicated for "these deities are always good and these ones are always evil" and the events of the Dawn Era are too disjointed (time didn't exist in the same form then) and poorly recorded for a single clear record of events which would enable us to label different beliefs as true or false.
Normally I'd say your best bet is to stay away from the machinations of both Aedra and Daedra and hope you escape their notice (or pray for them to leave you alone)...but it's a series of fantasy games and you're playing the protagonist so that option's out the window right from the start. So instead I'd say read/listen carefully before accepting any deal involving any divine being, and save regularly or carry plenty of soul gems, as applicable.PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"2
