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Charged or Infused + Disease Enchant for Dueling and small scale pvp?

Nerhesi
Nerhesi
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Thoughts?
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    With no other context or options, id say infused.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    Ok - how about under what context would choose charged over infused? I ask this because my dummy-tests have shown me 75% uptime vs 100% for major defile for example... for Infused vs Charged.

    But then the 25% less debuff uptime seems like a very small price to pay for the increased damage from infused...
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    Charge into battle with your Charged weapon!


    Make sure it’s fully Charged, tho.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Unless you are needing a status effect to proc a skill or ability, id almost never use charged over infused for PVP. But are you using nirhoned anywhere?
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    No nirhoned...

    The reason is, while nirhoned would be a good amount of spell power especially after major spellpower (300+), i'd lose out on the healing reduction from major defile.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Unless your going for some kind of support /debuff build, go nirnhoned + disease. You still can proc defile, but everything else will be more powerful.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    Unless your going for some kind of support /debuff build, go nirnhoned + disease. You still can proc defile, but everything else will be more powerful.

    I thought about it, but the problem is you barely procc disease. so while you may be getting 5% more damage... you'll be missing on 35% healing mitigation on the target.
  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds
  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.
  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on July 21, 2019 2:18AM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    You're correct - doesnt' change the outcome though.

    You should test it :)
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    I do not know how to edit previous posts... I wanted to indicate that quality of weapon (legendary epic etc) affects cooldown. So at the highest end you get 100% debut uptime
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    I do not know how to edit previous posts... I wanted to indicate that quality of weapon (legendary epic etc) affects cooldown. So at the highest end you get 100% debut uptime

    The only thing that affects cooldown is the infused trait.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.
  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.

    I'll take the L, i had no clue. Or the W depending how you look at it, i did learn something new.

    Just tested charged/disease enchantment on a dummy, and the uptime was 89% over two minutes. How come everybody isn't running this? I know i will from now on.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on July 21, 2019 6:57PM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.

    I'll take the L, i had no clue. Or the W depending how you look at it, i did learn something new.

    Just tested charged/disease enchantment on a dummy, and the uptime was 89% over two minutes. How come everybody isn't running this? I know i will from now on.

    because you trading 2572 pen or 200+ weapon damage, that would impact all your skills and targets, where you can only proc diseased on one target at a time, or the enchant itself doing twice as much damage etc etc.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.

    I'll take the L, i had no clue. Or the W depending how you look at it, i did learn something new.

    Just tested charged/disease enchantment on a dummy, and the uptime was 89% over two minutes. How come everybody isn't running this? I know i will from now on.

    because you trading 2572 pen or 200+ weapon damage, that would impact all your skills and targets, where you can only proc diseased on one target at a time, or the enchant itself doing twice as much damage etc etc.

    Plus you or another player on your team can be applying major defile via skills or sets. And even if you don't have as much up time, you'll still occasionally apply major defile just by having the disease enchant.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    Yeah - lots of valid points above.

    Do you trade off that 30%+ healing reduction for increased burst and under what circumstances?

    Nirnhoned helps your shields and heals, whereas the others do not.
    Sharpened gives you the best spike/burst DPS overall at the cost of everything else (At approximately a 4% increase just from that trait)
    Infused is a bit of a middle ground giving you increased DPS over-time due to increased damage and cooldown AND ok uptime on your debuff applied (whether it is concussed or befouled).
    Charged - is the way to go to guarantee the debuff on target and probably worth considering with a dot-build if sustained dot-DPS becomes a viable way to kill someone... rather than the one-dimensional burst/CC thing.

    I'll probably try Charged some more in BGs and such when the dot changes make it live - rather excited about that.

    Good talk guys :)
  • Nerhesi
    Nerhesi
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    Nerhesi wrote: »
    I do not know how to edit previous posts... I wanted to indicate that quality of weapon (legendary epic etc) affects cooldown. So at the highest end you get 100% debut uptime

    The only thing that affects cooldown is the infused trait.

    I'm trying to find that awesome chart that was done before that shows, normal vs infused vs charged , and with or without torugs and with or without some particular passives (I think it was destro skill passives).

    Was really helpful
  • Sun7dance
    Sun7dance
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.

    I'll take the L, i had no clue. Or the W depending how you look at it, i did learn something new.

    Just tested charged/disease enchantment on a dummy, and the uptime was 89% over two minutes. How come everybody isn't running this? I know i will from now on.

    I know the answer and i think many others too!

  • MaxJrFTW
    MaxJrFTW
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    Sun7dance wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Nerhesi wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    For dueling charged is probably the way to go. It guarantees 40% uptime on major defile. I don't have a lot of dueling experience though, so take that with a grain of salt.

    Curious - why do you consider it only 40%? Seems to be 95% plus... as long as you get a LA every 5-6 seconds

    The diseased status effect(major defile) last 4 seconds, and enchantments have a 10 second cooldown.

    I'm talking about charged, not infused. Infused reduces the cooldown of enchantments to 5 seconds, but the chance to proc the status effect is just 20%.

    Yes but you said Charged guarantees a 40% uptime on major defile.

    It would seem that Charged guarantees a near 100% uptime on major defile.
    Infused, is around 75% up time.

    The chance to proc may be 20% but you're definitely attacking/weaving a lot. So the chance to proc isn't synonymous with up time. I believe this also goes up when weaving weapon-attack skills as they have a chance to proc too.

    Enchantments have cooldowns. Once an enchantment goes off, it can't do so again for 10 seconds.

    Damage enchantments, like the disease one you speak of, have a 4 second cool down at base, 2 with infused.

    I'll take the L, i had no clue. Or the W depending how you look at it, i did learn something new.

    Just tested charged/disease enchantment on a dummy, and the uptime was 89% over two minutes. How come everybody isn't running this? I know i will from now on.

    I know the answer and i think many others too!

    Very helpful response. If you were to remove your post from the thread, you'd noticed that absolutely nothing of value was lost because that's exactly what your post provided.
    Edited by MaxJrFTW on July 23, 2019 2:18PM
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    I know everything there is to know about diseases.

    *coughs*
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