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so, after pirate skeleton....
Thrain
✭✭✭✭
i know many of you will now tell me how op pirate skeleton is and that it deserves the incoming nerf. however, calling something op that is in fact a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong WHILE giving you a negative effect on top of the desired bliss hints some serious insanity, considering what blackrose prison dual wield does.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield
- does not come along with a negative bliss stacked to a positive one,
- can be procced by the player with precision, has close to 100% uptime (compared to 80%/50%),
- gets even buffed by making the procc skill cheaper
- requires a procc skill that also grants you 2 positive effects (major expedition and major evasion),
- grants you major protection without blocking your valuable monster gear slots (which means your setup can consist either of 2 5pc sets and a second arena/trial weapon or of a monsterset and 2 whole 5pc sets on the frontbar), and
- will become the only meaningful source of major protection and therefore stamina exclusive, since this bliss was removed from lights champion.
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
24
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Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BRP DW is hidden behind some nasty RNG, but besides that, everything you mentioned is correct.7 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree, Im for nerfing brp dw, the less sources of major protection the better imo.
PC EU
PvP only3 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If BRP DW gets nerfed (which it should), nerf BRP resto staff, which is even better.9 -
darkblue5✭✭✭✭✭I'm all for nerfing BRP DW but this is way overselling how easy it is to get high uptime.2 -
frostz417✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BRP dw with major evasion thanks to blade cloak, troll king with heavy armor is the typical meta stam set up that has hardly received any nerfs.. infact it’s gotten buffed thanks to the vigor change and now all stam gets their own universal fear through the fingers guild. Nice job zos.Edited by frostz417 on July 21, 2019 10:10PM5 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree that BRP resto and dual wield both deserve a nerf.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP5 -
Lord_Sando✭✭✭This is a Troll right? 3 seconds of major protection with a skill cast is not a major issue. Troll king yes needs a cool down I agree STRONGLY. But BRP DW is fine IMO. BRP DW is balanced out by BRP resto, I would like to mention the BRP Resto staff having major mending after a heavy attack into a and major vitality is very strong just like major evasion and major protection. I think the few arena weapons that are actually viable is more an issue. Why run the BRP 2H when the aoe damage is mitagated two time before it reaches the target. BRP Destro is a meme or a zerglings BIS choice. Many other Arena weapon are pointless in pvp and pve keep That in mind when considering nerfing one of the few useful Arena weapons.
BTW if dots stay the same as the are on pts you will wish you had one of these or both if you don't ha access to a purge.4 -
Thrain✭✭✭✭Lord_Sando wrote: »This is a Troll right? 3 seconds of major protection with a skill cast is not a major issue. Troll king yes needs a cool down I agree STRONGLY. But BRP DW is fine IMO. BRP DW is balanced out by BRP resto, I would like to mention the BRP Resto staff having major mending after a heavy attack into a and major vitality is very strong just like major evasion and major protection. I think the few arena weapons that are actually viable is more an issue. Why run the BRP 2H when the aoe damage is mitagated two time before it reaches the target. BRP Destro is a meme or a zerglings BIS choice. Many other Arena weapon are pointless in pvp and pve keep That in mind when considering nerfing one of the few useful Arena weapons.
BTW if dots stay the same as the are on pts you will wish you had one of these or both if you don't ha access to a purge.
nop not a troll at all
blackrose prison dual wield grants you upon skillcast 3 MAJOR BLISSES without any disadvantage, and you get it WHENEVER YOU NEED IT its not a random procc you decide it when to procc and it is available to basically every stambuild.
but pirate skeleton deserves the nerf?
so if blackrose prison dual wield is fine as it is pirate skeleton should remain untouched and therefore a viable option for magbuilds as it is atm7 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭Major Protection is far too prevalent. I don't know if BRP DW is the biggest offender though.
Permafrost / Northern Storm is too overloaded a skill to give Major Protection as well as strong AoE damage + stun.
Also can't overlook Steadfast Hero on templar / magden / necro.
Even Iron blood can be ridiculous with its up time.Edited by cheemers on July 22, 2019 12:17AMYoutube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Major Protection is far too prevalent. I don't know if BRP DW is the biggest offender though.
Permafrost / Northern Storm is too overloaded a skill to give Major Protection as well as strong AoE damage + stun.
Also can't overlook Steadfast Hero on templar / magden / necro.
Even Iron blood can be ridiculous with its up time.
It's also easy to get on a Templar running Bloodspawn and Remembrance. A low cost ultimate that can be animation cancelled and provides the buff for (10s?). I'm not saying cancelling it is the best way to use the ultimate but it's a cheap source.
Steadfast is still the best source for Templar though.
For reference, Nightblade and DK also have a source of lengthy Major Protection with similar costs to the Warden's NS/Perma. They aren't overloaded though and the classes have better ultimate choices so many aren't even really aware of their power.Edited by brandonv516 on July 22, 2019 12:34AM0 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Is it a I got nerfed so I want to pee in everyones cereal post ?
Edited by david_m_18b16_ESO on July 22, 2019 2:41AM6 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭Pirate Skeleton... huge uptime without cost. BRP BW is fine by me, and I don't even have it.2
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is not the first post to complain about that weapon, but you know ZOS will just ignore input on it. It really is dumb for every other major protection source to have a downside, and then this one be left on demand for no reason other than "because stam" or "because arena weapon."
But hey, at least you can slot it if they don't nerf it instead of pirate skeleton and watch the forums continue to explode about magsorc or mag-whatever while pretending stam isn't better now and later...0 -
Thrain✭✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Is it a I got nerfed so I want to pee in everyones cereal post ?
just for the info, im using brp dual wield as well on another char, so coming at me with "i want to pee in everyones cereal because i got nerfed" is pretty unnecessary and has nothing to do with beeing constructive.
pirate skeleton is the only meaningful source of major protection for magicka builds and still underperforming compared to brp dual wield.
theres no reason for nerfing pirate skeleton and letting brp dual wield (wich is stronger) completely untouched (as pirate skeleton is still a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong, as i said before)
it is fact that brp dual wield is overperforming compared to pirate skeleton (as i told you before) so if pirate skeleton "needs" to get nerfed, then brp dual wield shall get its adjustment as well and if you want brp dual wield to stay untouched, then pirate skeleton shouldnt get nerfed at all.
taking away the only meaningful source of major protection from magicka builds, but stamina builds shall keep their (overperforming) source of major protection is pretty senseless.
1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i know many of you will now tell me how op pirate skeleton is and that it deserves the incoming nerf. however, calling something op that is in fact a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong WHILE giving you a negative effect on top of the desired bliss hints some serious insanity, considering what blackrose prison dual wield does.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield- does not come along with a negative bliss stacked to a positive one,
- can be procced by the player with precision, has close to 100% uptime (compared to 80%/50%),
- gets even buffed by making the procc skill cheaper
- requires a procc skill that also grants you 2 positive effects (major expedition and major evasion),
- grants you major protection without blocking your valuable monster gear slots (which means your setup can consist either of 2 5pc sets and a second arena/trial weapon or of a monsterset and 2 whole 5pc sets on the frontbar), and
- will become the only meaningful source of major protection and therefore stamina exclusive, since this bliss was removed from lights champion.
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
Lets compare.
Pirate skele: Free proc, doesn't require a skill slot, doesn't require any resources, longer lasting, does have a big side effect now. Requires head a shoulders.
Blackrose DW: Requires you to slot a specific skill, forces you to go dw, its very expensive, short duration 3s, technically no cooldown if you decide to use the expensive skill 33% of your GCD's. But can be used on demand.
Kind of hard to compare a free proc set with doesn't require a cast or skill to a set that forces to you go a certain weapon type, costs a decent amount of resources, requires an actual cast and has a short duration.
Btw magicka have a better back bar set for protection which can be used when needed and lasts 5s.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »i know many of you will now tell me how op pirate skeleton is and that it deserves the incoming nerf. however, calling something op that is in fact a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong WHILE giving you a negative effect on top of the desired bliss hints some serious insanity, considering what blackrose prison dual wield does.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield- does not come along with a negative bliss stacked to a positive one,
- can be procced by the player with precision, has close to 100% uptime (compared to 80%/50%),
- gets even buffed by making the procc skill cheaper
- requires a procc skill that also grants you 2 positive effects (major expedition and major evasion),
- grants you major protection without blocking your valuable monster gear slots (which means your setup can consist either of 2 5pc sets and a second arena/trial weapon or of a monsterset and 2 whole 5pc sets on the frontbar), and
- will become the only meaningful source of major protection and therefore stamina exclusive, since this bliss was removed from lights champion.
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
Lets compare.
Pirate skele: Free proc, doesn't require a skill slot, doesn't require any resources, longer lasting, does have a big side effect now. Requires head a shoulders.
Blackrose DW: Requires you to slot a specific skill, forces you to go dw, its very expensive, short duration 3s, technically no cooldown if you decide to use the expensive skill 33% of your GCD's. But can be used on demand.
Kind of hard to compare a free proc set with doesn't require a cast or skill to a set that forces to you go a certain weapon type, costs a decent amount of resources, requires an actual cast and has a short duration.
Btw magicka Templar/Necro/Warden have a better back bar set for protection which can be used when needed and lasts 5s.
Fixed.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »i know many of you will now tell me how op pirate skeleton is and that it deserves the incoming nerf. however, calling something op that is in fact a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong WHILE giving you a negative effect on top of the desired bliss hints some serious insanity, considering what blackrose prison dual wield does.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield- does not come along with a negative bliss stacked to a positive one,
- can be procced by the player with precision, has close to 100% uptime (compared to 80%/50%),
- gets even buffed by making the procc skill cheaper
- requires a procc skill that also grants you 2 positive effects (major expedition and major evasion),
- grants you major protection without blocking your valuable monster gear slots (which means your setup can consist either of 2 5pc sets and a second arena/trial weapon or of a monsterset and 2 whole 5pc sets on the frontbar), and
- will become the only meaningful source of major protection and therefore stamina exclusive, since this bliss was removed from lights champion.
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
Lets compare.
Pirate skele: Free proc, doesn't require a skill slot, doesn't require any resources, longer lasting, does have a big side effect now. Requires head a shoulders.
Blackrose DW: Requires you to slot a specific skill, forces you to go dw, its very expensive, short duration 3s, technically no cooldown if you decide to use the expensive skill 33% of your GCD's. But can be used on demand.
Kind of hard to compare a free proc set with doesn't require a cast or skill to a set that forces to you go a certain weapon type, costs a decent amount of resources, requires an actual cast and has a short duration.
Btw magicka have a better back bar set for protection which can be used when needed and lasts 5s.
I can kill Pirate Skeletons, it just takes longer sometimes.
I've run into Blackrose Dual Wielders that were absolutely unkillable 1v1. It's ridiculous, and even the guys wearing it admit it.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
david_m_18b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭david_m_18b16_ESO wrote: »Is it a I got nerfed so I want to pee in everyones cereal post ?
just for the info, im using brp dual wield as well on another char, so coming at me with "i want to pee in everyones cereal because i got nerfed" is pretty unnecessary and has nothing to do with beeing constructive.
pirate skeleton is the only meaningful source of major protection for magicka builds and still underperforming compared to brp dual wield.
theres no reason for nerfing pirate skeleton and letting brp dual wield (wich is stronger) completely untouched (as pirate skeleton is still a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong, as i said before)
it is fact that brp dual wield is overperforming compared to pirate skeleton (as i told you before) so if pirate skeleton "needs" to get nerfed, then brp dual wield shall get its adjustment as well and if you want brp dual wield to stay untouched, then pirate skeleton shouldnt get nerfed at all.
taking away the only meaningful source of major protection from magicka builds, but stamina builds shall keep their (overperforming) source of major protection is pretty senseless.
I just dont think your post is constructive at all. Comparing sets with each other based upon numbers and effect is usualy a poor way to balance things.
Is it over performing ? And well even then eso would need to make synergy with sets and build to see any kind of variety.
Set are classless so everyones can use everything. You post is just going to lead to a wave of nerf. Everytime the meta set get nerfed the next one in line become OP.0 -
Madhatten512✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »
minor defile after the wide spread nerfs to all other sources of defile and the befoul cp made it no cost yes.... You can now safely wear pirate skelton on every single class mag and stam and get huge uptime on major protection for pretty much nothing... I don't agree in the heavy handedness of the nerf, but ZOS cant do minor adjustments there have to either go way over the top OP or completely destroy (see Veiled Heritance) and BRP duel wield while strong isn't as strong as Pirate on live ive tested both and used both regularly blade cloak is an expensive skill and with only 3 seconds of major protection you have to pick and choose when to cast... Its good outnumbered when u get snared and rooted or your trying to make LOS... Its one of the last good tools for outnumbered pvp… Plus the down side to it is u lose a 5 piece set on the back bar so there is some exchange there...1 -
Thrain✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »i know many of you will now tell me how op pirate skeleton is and that it deserves the incoming nerf. however, calling something op that is in fact a whole monsterset and therefore considered to be strong WHILE giving you a negative effect on top of the desired bliss hints some serious insanity, considering what blackrose prison dual wield does.
at first glance, only looking at numbers, pirate skeleton started with an uptime of about 80% and will be altered to 50%. in addition, minor defile will become major defile.
with blackrose prison dual wield you can get almost 100% uptime of major protection without any negative effect.
now going more into detail, blackrose prison dual wield- does not come along with a negative bliss stacked to a positive one,
- can be procced by the player with precision, has close to 100% uptime (compared to 80%/50%),
- gets even buffed by making the procc skill cheaper
- requires a procc skill that also grants you 2 positive effects (major expedition and major evasion),
- grants you major protection without blocking your valuable monster gear slots (which means your setup can consist either of 2 5pc sets and a second arena/trial weapon or of a monsterset and 2 whole 5pc sets on the frontbar), and
- will become the only meaningful source of major protection and therefore stamina exclusive, since this bliss was removed from lights champion.
i know, pirate skeleton deserves the nerf because players who used it killed you so ofc its broken.
if pirate skeleton were really that op then why did the even stronger blackrose prison dual wield not get any adjustment at all?
i request your opinions and insights, and pls remain civil and constructive as im serious about this topic.
Lets compare.
Pirate skele: Free proc, doesn't require a skill slot, doesn't require any resources, longer lasting, does have a big side effect now. Requires head a shoulders.
Blackrose DW: Requires you to slot a specific skill, forces you to go dw, its very expensive, short duration 3s, technically no cooldown if you decide to use the expensive skill 33% of your GCD's. But can be used on demand.
Kind of hard to compare a free proc set with doesn't require a cast or skill to a set that forces to you go a certain weapon type, costs a decent amount of resources, requires an actual cast and has a short duration.
Btw magicka have a better back bar set for protection which can be used when needed and lasts 5s.
well you made a nice list, if you want a complete one have a brief look at my original post.
1 -
Bhelen✭✭✭They approached the nerf the wrong way. The problem isnt pirate skeleton. Its major protection. It could easily be changed to 15 or 20% and still be very viable. Then we wouldn't have to run around removing it from everything.5 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They approached the nerf the wrong way. The problem isnt pirate skeleton. Its major protection. It could easily be changed to 15 or 20% and still be very viable. Then we wouldn't have to run around removing it from everything.
But the buff itself is fine, its strong and before pirate it was rare and hard to get. It used to just be on nova which is a small aoe expensive stationary ult. Then there added it to a easy high uptime proc set.
Zos just ran out of ideas I think and throwing OP buffs everywhere.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1
