WoW introduces drastic changes to gameplay all the time...

Nyladreas · July 2019

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

Siohwenoeht · July 2019

I agree to a point. Most of the changes are either for the better (when something is legit over performing) or something that is easily overcome. I've adapted several builds when things have changed and it's not the end of the world.

The problem is when the changes don't make sense or needlessly hamper something in an attempt to adjust something else (for me this patch: the Ravager changes, never used the armor, but important piece of my stamsorc build as weapons and jewelry frontbar).

But in general, yes folks overreact when things change, in life and in the game lol.

Crixus8000 · July 2019

I have never played wow, but many of the changes in eso make no sense or is usually something getting over nerfed.

Something will be performing too well, or even just be a popular choice and not op at all yet zos just nukes it into uselessness, instead of just changing it slightly and seeing how it goes.

amir412 · July 2019

I dont have a problem with changes, i have a problem with reinventing the core game all over again every 6 months.
It's also stupid to introduce non-stop changes, when the game performance is literally unplayable for years.

Whats the point of trying to balance pvp over and over again, when 70% of the day you cant even play it?

Pops_ND_Irish · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

Should Post this in every topic

MartiniDaniels · July 2019

Pops_ND_Irish wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

Should Post this in every topic

Problem here is that "adapting" is quite time consuming, and majority of people can only play like 10-20 hours per week (which is not that small amount of time actually), and simply can't afford to re-roll several characters after each patch.

And this is if we put aside point that we actually want to play our mains, not a some secondary orc stamsorc which you half-leved just for lulz year ago, and now he becomes a top meta, and here you go for endless trip of grind through guild skill lines, skyshards etc.. if such things happen once a year, that's ok, that's even good to keep game fresh and reduce gap between newbies and veterans. But when this happens EVERY patch, it's simply becomes too boring and tedious.

To the very least ZOS could provided full plan of preliminary changes (class skills, guild skills, passives, sets), so people can at least know what to expect in several patches and build their characters accordingly.

MaxJrFTW · July 2019

WoW players have come to expect a bit of an overhaul with every expansion. That's the method blizzard uses to keep things interesting. A lot of the players are in the same page as the developers and see change as a means to freshen things up. I always saw a fair amount of unhappiness respecting the constant changes though, it's especially more evident as of late.

In the case of ZOS, they just make a lot of silly moves that don't make sense to anyone but themselves. They're constantly angering people by making unjustified decisions. I am fine with change, i was a long time WoW player myself, but the sheer amount of nonsensical changes is too much. The bad changes often are so extreme that they out weight the positive ones, and negativity always comes on top. This is displayed on the forums daily. I have never been a part of a gaming community that is so disconnected with the developers.

Runefang · July 2019

Really? You might be visiting the WoW forums with your rose coloured glasses on.

They complain more than ESO players for sure.

Agobi · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

....But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.....

Disagree........strongly

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

Nyladreas · July 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

I actually played since vanilla until legion.

Perhaps now in BFA it's gotten bad, but before that I've never seen so many complaints on their forums as I see here.

I really think some people might be dragged into the game too deep and won't even realize it, dismissing any even slight attempts at trying to spark their awareness.

Look at how hostile people are here and how they overreact. It's not even funny anymore. I'm genuinely worried about some folks.

MaxJrFTW · July 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

WotLK was released 11 years ago. Get with the program, old timer!

daemonios · July 2019

WoW players also complain. A lot. I've heard complaints from WoW players going as far back as Wrath of the Lich King (2008) and Cataclysm (2010). Right now WoW is said to be at an all-time population low, and the phenomenon has coined the term "WoW refugee" for those players leaving WoW and picking up other games.

Anyway, regarding ESO player complaints, I believe several factors add up to make this a loud community, the main one being what I feel has been a serious lack of vision from ZOS regarding the game and combat in particular. ESO launched with significant balance issues for a game heavily biased towards PvP - the original plan was clearly for players to level up to 50 doing whatever, then duke it out among themselves in Cyrodiil. Not only did ZOS find that the community didn't take up PvP as much as they probably hoped, which must have upended their plans for the game, but they failed to regain their focus. Since then, changes to combat, skills and gear have been (in my opinion) mostly reactive and detached from a larger vision for the game. I am very hopeful that the new combat team have managed to turn this around and now have a clear plan. For all the drama the changes currently on the PTS have caused, I see reason to believe this is the case.

Apart from that lack of vision, I think there are two other main factors that drive complaints. Firstly, the rapid deployment of sweeping changes. This is an MMO. People will chase the meta. But sometimes the meta will change back and forth in the space of a few months as previous changes are reversed. Players don't all gear up for the new meta on day 1 after an update. Game-changing nerfs or buffs should be doled out sparingly, with smaller adjustments issued as necessary.

Secondly, I strongly believe ZOS have catered to a style of play that is very averse to any changes. Reading the forums, some of the complaints seem to take issue with the fact that the meta should change at all. It needs to change, otherwise the game will die very quickly out of players leaving in boredom. The sets you farmed in 2015 can't still be BiS in 2019. There needs to be something to work towards *if* you want to be at the very top of the meta (the game is perfectly playable in all its aspects even without using gold gear from the latest trial). Other games are much more stifling in this regard, forcing you to farm the last expansion's raid for new gear if you want to stand a change in the current expansion's raid.

Devanear · July 2019

WoW players complain A LOT about the changes but it's not comparable. First of all, the changes here are about balance, in WoW we get complete class overhauls regularly and players sometimes miss their old playstyle. I know I still miss my shadow priest and ret paladin from WoD. Balance changes though, are accepted by the WoW community without much drama.

I'll give a specific example of this, survival hunter. If you never played WoW you might not be aware of this, but in WoW choosing a class and a specialization locks you into a specific play style. If you played survival hunter before the Legion expansion you were playing a ranged dot-based class. You used a bow, there was no other weapon you could use.

However, if you logged in to your hunter during Legion you would find a much different toon. You were now melee not ranged, you used polearms and swords not bows, your dots were replaced with a very punishing mechanic of ever increasing damage if you kept a decent to almost perfect rotation. It was the best spec the game ever had, FOR ME, because I didn't play survival hunter before that. The people that did though were livid. There was almost nothing of the old spec there, it certainly didn't play anything like before. Of course people complained. Wouldn't you?

Nothing like that is happening here though, so you cannot compare the two situations.

Skitamine · July 2019

I'm playing Bfa and classes are currently in dire need to change, Blizzard agreed they f***ed hard and we will have to wait for the next expansion. I think the class having it the worst is Warlock (demonology), from Pandaria to Warlord then Legion. Just when you begin to really figure out how to play it at his best, poof new design. It's like everytime they use it to experiment then give it to new classes (looking at you demon hunter).

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

People have stuff to do I guess in games like wow. No time for forums.
With eso people are bored of the dailies routine and come here to end game.
Personally I can say that I never bothered visiting forums on other mmorpgs.

1)My class was my class, chosen based of weapon usage and role in game. It would never change. Couldent care less about what other classes were getting from their skills or weapons. No metas.
2)New gear was tied to additional content and level. There were selections for playstyle. Not numbers crunching every 3 months.
3)Open world adventure, leveling, wars and meaningful PvP overall.

Eso is all about: will I enjoy my game or will Zos hit me with the next OP gear set and ping increase with their next dlc? Lemme communicate in forums....

Eso has:
Classes
Magika
Stamina
Weapons
Other skill lines and instead of regulating those conflicts of interest throw in the mix ridiculous new 5th bonuses, monster sets and weapon sets that only a few are useful.
Oh well. How else will you sell a boooooooring overland experience, a laggy PvP and a PvE community that wants their DK to be a viable healer or NB tank. Does sorc have 2k more dps than NB? Rage.....
Ye that's it. Ridiculous gear sets so that crutch lovers can rage at each other in forums.

If only gangers realized that people need to be able to react.
If only tanks realized that you cant deal solid dmg.
If only bleeders realized that there has to be counterplay.
If only endless resources came at a cost, maybe forums could get more civil and devs manage to control some aspects that are out of hand.

But no. How else will people make stamNB and magSorc 1vX videos if there was a balance. No videos no streamers. Oh well Crown Store houses and skins.
Eso forums.
Going to go play some Cyro now with aussie ping 356. Later.

Edit 2 mins later.
Well cursed weapons HAD TO take down walls. It was necessary. Ask for nerf? Dare I? BG? Some1 declined. Placed Q

barney2525 · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

I actually played since vanilla until legion.

Perhaps now in BFA it's gotten bad, but before that I've never seen so many complaints on their forums as I see here.

I really think some people might be dragged into the game too deep and won't even realize it, dismissing any even slight attempts at trying to spark their awareness.

Look at how hostile people are here and how they overreact. It's not even funny anymore. I'm genuinely worried about some folks.

IMHO - It's the Meta-Psychosis.

First - Players want to be successful. They don't want to Feel useless in PvP or PvE dungeons/trials. So they do their homework, do the research, find out what the most effective builds and gear are.

Second - Players put in the work and resources to build that meta with that gear. Then they study the 'How' to use the build successfully. They learn the timing on the rotations. They learn exactly what to do at specifically what moments to maximize their effectiveness.

Third - They go out and play in PvP and/or PvE dungeons and trials - And they find out that all their work has borne fruit. They are very effective in every aspect that they worked toward. There is a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction and they continue to be successful every time they play.

Fourth - And then Zos changes something that affects their build

Fifth - All that work attaining their goal goes up in smoke. It does not matter that what they have built is still very good. It is no longer at the level that they had worked for, and in effect, Earned. They feel that what they have Earned has been taken away.

So they vent on Forums. Can't say that I blame them or disagree with them.

IMHO

Censered · July 2019

Not only do they complain more but the drastic changes causes them to quite more starting at Cataclysm which is the point when the drastic changes started.

Its dropped so much that they stopped reporting their pop numbers. I remember a constant flow of "You are killing wow and I'm quitting!" threads every since BC over every bad decision they made.

When people complain and quite mmos its normally for good reasons.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

The majority of the people on the forums and in game that I run across in game started between in vanilla and wotlk.

Sergykid · July 2019

u can't call it balance if something changes its usage from everyone to nobody

NeroBad · July 2019

I heard from others that compared to other MMOs ESO is very casual friendly. Altough at the beginning PvP was the main selling point, now it is not. So now most of the players I assume are not that hardcore players, who are unlike other MMO players aren't that into farm new sets because their old set gets into garbage category. Also reading other threads ESO players are more likely to focus on one character, so if their main's class "balanced" heavily then they more likely to have a break or leave the game then other MMO players.

If they want to jump back to competitive PvP focus, then they should not be surprised that after 4 years of heavy PvE focus the PvE heavy playerbase are dissatisfied. I know PvP players are dissatisfied from the beginning, and the for good reasons, but now from marketing view these kind of turn is not wise in my experience.

Also I agree that the main reason for playing should be having fun, but the way OP asks those questions are very condescending. And there is no definitive way to look at changes, some likes them for the reasons you pointed out, some hate them, because they find many objectives to chase and farming new sets, and experimenting new playstyles every 3-6 months are boring.

Legate_Lanius · July 2019

Censered wrote: »

Not only do they complain more but the drastic changes causes them to quite more starting at Cataclysm which is the point when the drastic changes started.

Its dropped so much that they stopped reporting their pop numbers. I remember a constant flow of "You are killing wow and I'm quitting!" threads every since BC over every bad decision they made.

When people complain and quite mmos its normally for good reasons.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

cuz most of WoW player base right now is made of underaged kids...so they have no idea whats going on most of the time since the real players of WoW quit after Wotlk...so if you are going to use a behemoth as ur example, you should 1st get ur facts straight.

The majority of the people on the forums and in game that I run across in game started between in vanilla and wotlk.

It’s funny to see people talk bad about another playerbase without having any clue about it, at all.

Tessitura · July 2019

amir412 wrote: »

I dont have a problem with changes, i have a problem with reinventing the core game all over again every 6 months.
It's also stupid to introduce non-stop changes, when the game performance is literally unplayable for years.

Whats the point of trying to balance pvp over and over again, when 70% of the day you cant even play it?

They haven't really re-invented anything though. The core of the game remains the same. A large majority of these changes are damage adjustments, and the one that arn't don't exactly turn anything on its head out side of the healing changes, If they had re-invented the core game, we would see a new game entirely. Its still three stat based, it's still weapon swapping, its still 7 hotbars, excluding sorc, it's still armor and champion point builds, its still everything it was just with new values and changed abilities.

Czekoludek · July 2019

1. That's not true.
2. Tell me about WoW condition now and how introducing many drastic changes over the years help wow grow... Oh wait, it doesn't

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

im agree 100% with you about the changes is good for the game.

I just would like to ask for a bit more of balance, that´s it. Specially when we see patch after patch that same stat/classes get free of changes/nerfs while others keep getting it.

srfrogg23 · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

Um... you don't read the WoW forums much, do you? That is literally all that people do on WoW's forums.

Is this a case of selective amnesia for the sake of standing on your soap box? Because, that's what this sounds like.

The_Lex · July 2019

I honestly don't give a damn what happens in WoW.

Eraldus · July 2019

"Blizzard makes so that WoW deletes all your characters with each new update, so ZOS should do the same!"

It might come as a complete surprise and shock to someone like you, but... Just because WoW does something awful, it doesn't means ZOS needs to do the same.

Also f*** WoW.

Kel · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

What is the problem here?

Are some of you perhaps taking the game too seriously? Are some of you perhaps addicted?

Are some of you just lazy to adapt?

It's a game and changes should be viewed as fresh opportunities to experiment and change things up, no matter how drastic those changes are.

Whatever the reason may be, I'd like to remind people to take and do everything with moderation. If you feel like the game has a negative impact on your life or mental balance and happiness, please don't be afraid to seek help. These things happen.

Maintain a healthy ego, be above things and think outside the box. Don't worry about some stupid changes. Soon you'll see that there are many fun, albeit different ways to enjoy the game still.

Blizzard does change things all the time. And this time, players complained so much that they came out and admitted that they actually took some of these changes too far.

https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/22/blizzard-on-world-of-warcraft-class-pruning-weve-gone-too-far/

Take off your rose colored glasses, please.

Also, I too played WoW from BC up until the end of Legion.

Warcraft is the most toxic game in history, the forums are no exception.
ESO forums are tame by comparison. There's actually moderation here.

OP talks about awareness and being blind...uses WoW as an example and doesn't mean it with any sort of irony....lmao 🤣🤣🤣

Navras · July 2019

WoW also lost 7 or 8 milion subscrbrers during the last few years. Of corse not only because of class changes, but they are a factor as well.

Fleshreaper · July 2019

I imagine it's the stagnant mire of progression in this game. When your character has been the same level and power for years, when you finally get some glimmer of upgrade in skill, it's hard to see that little character progression being ripped away in the name of balance. Stopping the CP increases is bad IMO. If ZoS is worried about the power creep, then fix the rate at which character catch up, don't stop character progression. It should take but a day or two at most to get to 160 CP IMO, then from there, start scaling the progression. Just increase the catch up of CP even more than it is now, up to a point and then start tapering the increase off.

KerinKor · July 2019

Nyladreas wrote: »

But nobody over there ever complained even half as much as people cry here on the forums.

LOL, I see assertions being made to support an agenda here .. anyone who's played BFA knows the reason for the massive decline in player numbers is exactly this issue: the way the character progression system was changed in BFA to the Azerite grind.

It's ridiculous to try to say that there was less complaining on the WOW forums than on here right now!