The forum leaves a terrible impression on new joiners

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2019

I dont rly know what this hustle is all about. It is PTS "season", and we are ate week 1 (there are 4 weeks in total usually).

Every time, the first round of PTS is usually the worst, as it contains almost always a lot of controversial changes. And since we have a new lead combat designer, there are a lot of changes. And I mean like A LOT this time.

So obviously there are things that people wont like.

I for example, If I were to be honest, I think, 60 - 70% of changes are good. But there are also those small changes that were handled badly. Like Werewolf for example. "Overall" changes done to WW are more or less "ok", but changes done to Pack Leader will cause this morph to simply disappear from the game, as no one will use it (yes it is that bad).

Also, I dont understand this people saying, that 90% of forums are toxic. This "toxicness" in basically maybe 10 - 20 people in total (yep, same ppl) just spamming forums with it. It is a shame that others have to suffer because of that.

When I watched last Alcast video on PTS, this dude said: "Don't go to forums"
And I am like... What ? Excuse me ? Where else could I go to give feedback ? ?

So imho, ppl who says, forums are toxic are simply exaggerating. I have read PTS feedback threads and maybe 10 - 15% are ppl bashing non-constructive gibberish.

tl;dr :
Ppl simply point out all the bad stuff, and almost no one says that good changes are good, because it would be waste of time, hence all the "negativity".

KappaKid83 · July 2019

Since this is the official forum and you get an invite for signing up I feel like this may be a lot more accurate of a feel to the community on average than on reddit. The people who post on here a good amount are people who have poured hours and hours into this game and the ones who are disgruntled are the ones who are not seeing the changes that have been promised over and over and over but have never come to fruition. If you want to see cool houses and outfits and pets and screen shots, reddit is your go to. If you want to actually sense how the community is and how they feel about the state of the game, come here.

Aurie · July 2019

Sylosi wrote: »

The ESO reddit leaves a far worse impression...

...to anyone with an IQ out of double digits.

Which is only 50% of the population.

DaveMoeDee · July 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Not only that but it seems to get progressively worse - compare it to the eso reddit (of all places) that is mostly constructive and positive.

The only impression you get here is that the game is horrible, p2w and basically 5min away from dying...

I understand people want to voice mostly their perceived grievances but a) do we really need the 50th qq thread about the same topic instead of fewer bigger and better once? and b) cant everyone also always think about the gamewide impact of their complaint as well as formulate a qualitative feedback on how to improve things - having everyone else in mind?

More and more of my friends - long time players - dont visit the forums at all anymore because of these reasons...

It isn't getting progressively worse. It has always been horrible like that. That is why there are so many running jokes about the game "dying" again.

rfennell_ESO · July 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Not only that but it seems to get progressively worse - compare it to the eso reddit (of all places) that is mostly constructive and positive.

The only impression you get here is that the game is horrible, p2w and basically 5min away from dying...

I understand people want to voice mostly their perceived grievances but a) do we really need the 50th qq thread about the same topic instead of fewer bigger and better once? and b) cant everyone also always think about the gamewide impact of their complaint as well as formulate a qualitative feedback on how to improve things - having everyone else in mind?

More and more of my friends - long time players - dont visit the forums at all anymore because of these reasons...

It's sort of a fool's paradox.

Sometimes heavy handed moderation (the ninja deletion of things devs don't want to see) leads to people thinking that deletion was read or the acknowledgment that it's an issue that they don't want to see or deal with so they must have read your cleverly crafted flamebaiting.

OwnerOfSuccuby · July 2019

Make game better and all be fine. Do you people liy to others? If i will not log ing 20 minutes some days ago i will not write about it.

Ahtu · July 2019

It's an open forum where anyone can say anything they want. You can't compare it to Reddit as the top threads are voted and not simply just there chronologically. It's the same thing in any forum not just here.

The minority of vocal players always flock to the forums while the majority are happily playing the game.

FakeFox · July 2019

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Ccompare it to the eso reddit (of all places) that is mostly constructive and positive.

There isn't anything constructive about this fanboy echochamber. The DDR would have been proud.

DaveMoeDee · July 2019

And let's not forget that there are lots of curmudgeons everywhere. The Internet makes it easy for them to be their worst and get exposure. IRL, everyone just turns their backs and they end up isolated, while everyone else gets to enjoy their interactions.

On reddit, the people no one wants to be around and who suck the energy out of the room may never have their posts upvoted enough to be heard. Eventually, they call everyone else "fanboys" and leave reddit to come to forums where they can't be downvoted.

I do think it is valuable for them to have a place to rant. Usually what they are blowing out of proportion IS a legitimate concern that deserves attention. They just might not have the emotional maturity to discuss it in a productive manner.

Edited typos

Giraffon · July 2019

It does leave a rough impression I have to agree. I think the frustration after all these years is that some things that are brought up over and over never get acknowledged. Zos has a bad habit of remaining silent (Dark Brotherhood?) about things. This tends to enrage people as far as I can tell. Do that long enough and you have a whole forum full of enraged people.

kongkim · July 2019

Just too many whiners on the forum.
ZOS should close the forum access for people that have not been online for a time.

BNOC · July 2019

redgreensunset wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

The majority of comments on this post demonstrates OP's point brilliantly. I've be playing MMOs since EQ and usually frequent the official forum(s) for thr game(s) I'm playing. This forum is definitely on the top 5 of most toxic forums I've ever seen and imo the mods are far too lenient on toxic behavior and negative but unconstructive threads and posts. For one thing the gaslighting from the toxic elements of anyone witj a dissenting opinion or view is left to run rampant with very little counter from the mods.

Here's a direct quote from a Reddit ESO Moderator:
"One of the big advantages is that we’re not bound to a company policy. We can filter morons out of this reddit as much as we like."

What that means is, anyone with a "dissenting opinion or view" is silenced or downvoted until they only see what the Reddit majority agree on.

What has been said in here that highlights OP's point?

And that's different from the Wailing Brigade on here who will pile on a post or comment they disagree with until the original poster/commentor leaves in disgust or exhaustion?
In my experience all that quote from the reddit mod means is that the toxic people on here aren't allowed to spread on the reddit. And in their usual MO of utter self entitlement and toxity they get pissy about it.

Yes, it's so different. In my experience, nobody here is forcibly removed against their own will just for having a different opinion to the masses, discussions happen, people agree and disagree but the posts stay there for readers to make their own minds up - They're only policed when needed in extreme cases by ZOS, rather than at any time by someone with a personal agenda.

Chill out with the buzz words bro.

BomblePants · July 2019

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

And let's not forget that there are lot's of curmudgeons everywhere. The Internet makes it easy for them to be their worst and get exposure. IRL, everyone just turns their backs and they end up isolated, while everyone else gets to enjoy whatever they are doing interactions.

On reddit, the people no one wants to be around and who suck the energy out of the room may never have their posts upvoted enough to be heard. Eventually, they call everyone else "fanboys" and leave reddit to come to forums where they can't be downvoted.

I do think it is valuable for them to have a place to rant. Usually what they are blowing out of proportion IS a legitimate concern that deserves attention. They just might not have the emotional maturity to discuss it in a productive manner.

Best post ever.....

redlink1979 · July 2019

Rake wrote: »

Forums are better than Cyro performance

Agree with OP.

Grandma · July 2019

BNOC wrote: »

That's just today but it never changes - There's literally no meaningful discussion on Reddit away from Lore.

Edit: Not bombing on creativity, I appreciate that stuff, but not much else over there.

reddit doesn't operate on some kind of secret agenda, it isn't rocket science. people just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there, whereas people on this forum- who i recommend nobody ever visit under any circumstances- is just a cess pool of everyone who thinks their opinion is unique/new on making the same topic for the 89th time in the week about an issue zos already commented on / fixed in a patch note, or heaven forbid the endless p2w topics. there's just nothing inherently good about the forums. The game has issues, yes, but the forum goers vastly blow them out of proportion and make them sound like end of the world deals, like how the game crashing for them once makes them quit the game after 4 years of spending 1000s of dollars on the game and then continue to haunt the forums for a few years after for no apparent reason.

There are also some meaningful discussions on the reddit, and i'm sick of "look at this generic screencap!" posts as much as the next grandma, but the daily topics are usually a pretty good center for creative discussion.

FakeFox · July 2019

Grandma wrote: »

People just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there.

If "the game" means painting, crafting, cosplay, fan fiction and other things that aren't the game and sometimes superficial in game activities, sure.

MartiniDaniels · July 2019

Grandma wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

That's just today but it never changes - There's literally no meaningful discussion on Reddit away from Lore.

Edit: Not bombing on creativity, I appreciate that stuff, but not much else over there.

reddit doesn't operate on some kind of secret agenda, it isn't rocket science. people just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there, whereas people on this forum- who i recommend nobody ever visit under any circumstances- is just a cess pool of everyone who thinks their opinion is unique/new on making the same topic for the 89th time in the week about an issue zos already commented on / fixed in a patch note, or heaven forbid the endless p2w topics. there's just nothing inherently good about the forums. The game has issues, yes, but the forum goers vastly blow them out of proportion and make them sound like end of the world deals, like how the game crashing for them once makes them quit the game after 4 years of spending 1000s of dollars on the game and then continue to haunt the forums for a few years after for no apparent reason.

There are also some meaningful discussions on the reddit, and i'm sick of "look at this generic screencap!" posts as much as the next grandma, but the daily topics are usually a pretty good center for creative discussion.

People are different, some prefer truth and full picture instead of hiding bad sides behind good sides. And there a lot of creativity here, that screenshot with comments on reddit topics is masterpiece btw

Ogou · July 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

That's just today but it never changes - There's literally no meaningful discussion on Reddit away from Lore.

Edit: Not bombing on creativity, I appreciate that stuff, but not much else over there.

reddit doesn't operate on some kind of secret agenda, it isn't rocket science. people just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there, whereas people on this forum- who i recommend nobody ever visit under any circumstances- is just a cess pool of everyone who thinks their opinion is unique/new on making the same topic for the 89th time in the week about an issue zos already commented on / fixed in a patch note, or heaven forbid the endless p2w topics. there's just nothing inherently good about the forums. The game has issues, yes, but the forum goers vastly blow them out of proportion and make them sound like end of the world deals, like how the game crashing for them once makes them quit the game after 4 years of spending 1000s of dollars on the game and then continue to haunt the forums for a few years after for no apparent reason.

There are also some meaningful discussions on the reddit, and i'm sick of "look at this generic screencap!" posts as much as the next grandma, but the daily topics are usually a pretty good center for creative discussion.

People are different, some prefer truth and full picture instead of hiding bad sides behind good sides. And there a lot of creativity here, that screenshot with comments on reddit topics is masterpiece btw

If the forums were representative of the truth the game would have been long dead by now.

satanio · July 2019

No, not really.

Kagukan · July 2019

So many complainers and yet everyone is still here. Hmmmmm....

MartiniDaniels · July 2019

Ogou wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

That's just today but it never changes - There's literally no meaningful discussion on Reddit away from Lore.

Edit: Not bombing on creativity, I appreciate that stuff, but not much else over there.

reddit doesn't operate on some kind of secret agenda, it isn't rocket science. people just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there, whereas people on this forum- who i recommend nobody ever visit under any circumstances- is just a cess pool of everyone who thinks their opinion is unique/new on making the same topic for the 89th time in the week about an issue zos already commented on / fixed in a patch note, or heaven forbid the endless p2w topics. there's just nothing inherently good about the forums. The game has issues, yes, but the forum goers vastly blow them out of proportion and make them sound like end of the world deals, like how the game crashing for them once makes them quit the game after 4 years of spending 1000s of dollars on the game and then continue to haunt the forums for a few years after for no apparent reason.

There are also some meaningful discussions on the reddit, and i'm sick of "look at this generic screencap!" posts as much as the next grandma, but the daily topics are usually a pretty good center for creative discussion.

People are different, some prefer truth and full picture instead of hiding bad sides behind good sides. And there a lot of creativity here, that screenshot with comments on reddit topics is masterpiece btw

If the forums were representative of the truth the game would have been long dead by now.

I just looked today's main page of general discussions - I don't see wall of toxicity and qq posts... basically this thread is only toxic thread at the moment

P.S. i don't mean comments in this thread are toxic, original post is classical toxic input.

It misinform users that all forums topics are bad which is obviously a lie - there are build discussions, costume and oitfit threads, there was "event" of voting for favorite character, etc, etc, etc

Thorvik_Tyrson · July 2019

I recently joined ESO, and this was after I spent several months doing research and trying to find a "new to me" MMO to go play next. I did go and read some of the ESO forums posts prior to signing up and playing the game. The sheer volume of posts told me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the game was still very much alive and kicking.

Every MMO forums out there that I looked at had posts about lag, performance, and how the game was dying (Or going to die if you make this change). And lets not forget the posts about "No, its not a good time to start and/or return to playing this game. Those give me a good laugh every time.

One big difference that I noticed with the ESO forums was that you couldn't just make a forums account and start posting. You had to have purchased the game in order to get a forums account. This seems to have eliminated the garbage posts that I saw in several forums.

After I finish the ESO content/story line, my interest in ESO may change as I have already noticed several similarities and limits in ESO that are the reasons that I left other MMO's after finishing the content and story lines.

SweepsAllClowns · July 2019

My Xbox EU account has been completely stuck exactly for 4 months today, I haven't been able to log in at all after Wrathstone arrived. I could post on Reddit about it and it's still as negative or positive thing depending how one sees it. At this point I don't have any hopes for it working again so basically the results are exactly the same for me now as for someone getting account permabanned. How would you feel and how positive would it be, if similar suddenly happened for you some day when trying to log in? No one cares how much time or money I've spent on this game, only thing left is to move on and pick some new favorite game to play.

Ruvalie · July 2019

I'm a relatively new player, and what I consider toxic is not complaining about the game, but hostility towards other players. The extent to which people respond to their fellow players by being sarcastic, ad hominem attacks like calling people whiners or children, and acting as though everyone who disagrees with them is either malicious or stupid, is how I measure toxicity. So far I consider this forum slightly less toxic than the WoW forum, but only slightly.

Varaug_Gaming · July 2019

you think this forum is accessible for new people?

West1389 · July 2019

Giraffon wrote: »

It does leave a rough impression I have to agree. I think the frustration after all these years is that some things that are brought up over and over never get acknowledged. Zos has a bad habit of remaining silent (Dark Brotherhood?) about things. This tends to enrage people as far as I can tell. Do that long enough and you have a whole forum full of enraged people.

This sums it up, people want to be heard and just a simple sentence can calm everyone down. Zos has not learned that yet, this is why people threaten to quit all the time. They threaten thinking that zos will get scared and say no, and just issue a reply.

Reality is people dont want to quit, they spent so many hours in the game, just to throw it away. Then what angers them more are the fanboys who tell them nothing is wrong, and find a new game.

The toxic people are more of the fanboys and zos. The fanboys are happy to get you out until there is no more game.

Ogou · July 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

That's just today but it never changes - There's literally no meaningful discussion on Reddit away from Lore.

Edit: Not bombing on creativity, I appreciate that stuff, but not much else over there.

reddit doesn't operate on some kind of secret agenda, it isn't rocket science. people just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there, whereas people on this forum- who i recommend nobody ever visit under any circumstances- is just a cess pool of everyone who thinks their opinion is unique/new on making the same topic for the 89th time in the week about an issue zos already commented on / fixed in a patch note, or heaven forbid the endless p2w topics. there's just nothing inherently good about the forums. The game has issues, yes, but the forum goers vastly blow them out of proportion and make them sound like end of the world deals, like how the game crashing for them once makes them quit the game after 4 years of spending 1000s of dollars on the game and then continue to haunt the forums for a few years after for no apparent reason.

There are also some meaningful discussions on the reddit, and i'm sick of "look at this generic screencap!" posts as much as the next grandma, but the daily topics are usually a pretty good center for creative discussion.

People are different, some prefer truth and full picture instead of hiding bad sides behind good sides. And there a lot of creativity here, that screenshot with comments on reddit topics is masterpiece btw

If the forums were representative of the truth the game would have been long dead by now.

I just looked today's main page of general discussions - I don't see wall of toxicity and qq posts... basically this thread is only toxic thread at the moment

P.S. i don't mean comments in this thread are toxic, original post is classical toxic input.

It misinform users that all forums topics are bad which is obviously a lie - there are build discussions, costume and oitfit threads, there was "event" of voting for favorite character, etc, etc, etc

That is unusual. There's usually one or two sneaking around waiting for the nods to notice.

My comment was just referring to how often people on the forums claim that the game is about to die.

goldenflameslinger · July 2019

I usually leave the forums depressed. A lot of doom and gloom and salt.

DaveMoeDee · July 2019

FakeFox wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

People just enjoy the game and are simply happy over there.

If "the game" means painting, crafting, cosplay, fan fiction and other things that aren't the game and sometimes superficial in game activities, sure.

All in-game activities are superficial.

redgreensunset · July 2019

BNOC wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

The majority of comments on this post demonstrates OP's point brilliantly. I've be playing MMOs since EQ and usually frequent the official forum(s) for thr game(s) I'm playing. This forum is definitely on the top 5 of most toxic forums I've ever seen and imo the mods are far too lenient on toxic behavior and negative but unconstructive threads and posts. For one thing the gaslighting from the toxic elements of anyone witj a dissenting opinion or view is left to run rampant with very little counter from the mods.

Here's a direct quote from a Reddit ESO Moderator:
"One of the big advantages is that we’re not bound to a company policy. We can filter morons out of this reddit as much as we like."

What that means is, anyone with a "dissenting opinion or view" is silenced or downvoted until they only see what the Reddit majority agree on.

What has been said in here that highlights OP's point?

And that's different from the Wailing Brigade on here who will pile on a post or comment they disagree with until the original poster/commentor leaves in disgust or exhaustion?
In my experience all that quote from the reddit mod means is that the toxic people on here aren't allowed to spread on the reddit. And in their usual MO of utter self entitlement and toxity they get pissy about it.

Yes, it's so different. In my experience, nobody here is forcibly removed against their own will just for having a different opinion to the masses, discussions happen, people agree and disagree but the posts stay there for readers to make their own minds up - They're only policed when needed in extreme cases by ZOS, rather than at any time by someone with a personal agenda.

Chill out with the buzz words bro.

Lol, man. Your attention seem to be a bit selective. Anyone who dares post anything positive about the game gets dogpiled by the Wailing Brigade until they shut up. It is all but impossible to say you like anything about this game and "get away with it". I know, I've seen it happen a good number of times in the short time I've been here.
Oh and not to mention that this loud mouth brigade is far too busy whining to help out the random newcomer that miight find their way here to ask a question, and they drown out that question with their whining so that any helpful soul that may still reside here are unlikely to ever see it and resond. No wonder if the subreddit tries to keep a positive environment where newcomers can ask questions and get an actual answer, and where people who like the game and have positive experiences can talk and share without getting shouted down (a good deal of the time by comments irrelevant to the topic at hand). But you do you, personally I ask my questions over on reddit, I've iven up on getting anything useful out of this forum. Apart from those one and a half useful answers I got at the very beginning, which I am grateful for but they were clearly attypical for this place.