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90% of the ultimates have cast times
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Saelent✭✭✭✭✭prototypefb wrote: »Eso is moving towards turn based game more and more
How? Is animation cancelling a thing in games like Guild Wars 2 or (dare I mention it) World of Warcraft? They aren’t turn based but they have cool downs, if anything eso is moving towards cool downs, but they’re putting in cast times instead of straight cool downs.2 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭prototypefb wrote: »Eso is moving towards turn based game more and more
How? Is animation cancelling a thing in games like Guild Wars 2 or (dare I mention it) World of Warcraft? They aren’t turn based but they have cool downs, if anything eso is moving towards cool downs, but they’re putting in cast times instead of straight cool downs.
Ultimates do in fact have a cool down.
The only thing I see problematic with this is it will actually empower the seasoned vets more in PvP. They will very easily block, dodge, or escape from almost all ultimates now. If this change is to allow counter play, I somewhat agree with it. But if it’s actually to help newer players enter the PvP space it will likely have quite the opposite effect.PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.4 -
omegatay_ESO✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »What's this about problems with weapon swapping?
There is a delay on that as well
I guess it's good I learned to play with only one bar. Yes, I am very casual player, but I still easily complete the content I want to play. I found swapping all the time awkward as hell, at least to me.0 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »
Not sure with a straight face how you can make that argument...Edited by jadarock on July 12, 2019 12:45PM1 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭omegatay_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »What's this about problems with weapon swapping?
There is a delay on that as well
I guess it's good I learned to play with only one bar. Yes, I am very casual player, but I still easily complete the content I want to play. I found swapping all the time awkward as hell, at least to me.
Not crashing your playstyle, but you don't even use a bar just for buffs or mount speed?1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Why is this a good idea? Not only are the ultimates having cast times but weapon swapping is unreliable now since it seems like it also has a cast time or no longer able to animation cancel via weapon swap? Idk it just feels janky as hell. Slowing down combat, what is the combat team thinking?
The counter is: if they have animations that can be eliminated entirely why did they bother making animations?1 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭The barswap issue is totally different to the cast time on ultis.
The problems with barswapping on the PTS are a bug, the inability to ani cancel dawnbreaker is an intentional change to give the option of counterplay. The have changed Dawnbreaker so that the damage hits at the end of the animation so you have the option to dodge it in the same way that you can dodge the Dk leap, or block Meteor.2 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »The barswap issue is totally different to the cast time on ultis.
The problems with barswapping on the PTS are a bug, the inability to ani cancel dawnbreaker is an intentional change to give the option of counterplay. The have changed Dawnbreaker so that the damage hits at the end of the animation so you have the option to dodge it in the same way that you can dodge the Dk leap, or block Meteor.
Wow,and the pve side should really be concerned this crap.As I've said before they are avoidable when cancelled,so really what more do you even need.it's not like it's an invisible attack.0 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apparently it was done purely for visual purposes...PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade1 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »
No it's not.
Aoe, ani, spam, and many other things combat & non combat related are. It's long past due to start trimming the fat from this game.
You can deny & argue your point all you like, this is happening.
Usually getting rid of fat makes something faster.
No. Trimming the fat means making something more efficient. While this sometimes means making something faster, efficiency and speed are not always causated. In the context of ESO server performance, efficiency would be reduced workload (and increased stability) for similar end result.
No comment on if these changes would held accomplish that. Just laying out the logic.Edited by Vandril on July 12, 2019 6:37PM0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Why is this a good idea? Not only are the ultimates having cast times but weapon swapping is unreliable now since it seems like it also has a cast time or no longer able to animation cancel via weapon swap? Idk it just feels janky as hell. Slowing down combat, what is the combat team thinking?
The counter is: if they have animations that can be eliminated entirely why did they bother making animations?
Easy answer: So you can string your attacks together into a sexy flowing combo. Animation canceling is not required in combat, except for when you need to block or dodgeroll and you've already fired off a skill.Edited by D0PAMINE on July 12, 2019 11:23PM3 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭NeillMcAttack wrote: »prototypefb wrote: »Eso is moving towards turn based game more and more
How? Is animation cancelling a thing in games like Guild Wars 2 or (dare I mention it) World of Warcraft? They aren’t turn based but they have cool downs, if anything eso is moving towards cool downs, but they’re putting in cast times instead of straight cool downs.
Ultimates do in fact have a cool down.
The only thing I see problematic with this is it will actually empower the seasoned vets more in PvP. They will very easily block, dodge, or escape from almost all ultimates now. If this change is to allow counter play, I somewhat agree with it. But if it’s actually to help newer players enter the PvP space it will likely have quite the opposite effect.
Now people will cast incap, then block animation cancel, you will still hear the incap sound and see the telegraph and roll dodge.
Now you can bait people into roll dodging with ult cancel1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Why is this a good idea? Not only are the ultimates having cast times but weapon swapping is unreliable now since it seems like it also has a cast time or no longer able to animation cancel via weapon swap? Idk it just feels janky as hell. Slowing down combat, what is the combat team thinking?
I agree with slowing down ultimate usage. The instant burst damage that's capable when multiple people dump their ultimate abilities at the same time is just too much. Players need to be given more time to react to that crap.
I can sympathize about weapon swapping being janky though. They need change the coding or w/e to prioritize weapon swapping over everything else. When a player hits his or her button to swap weapons - that ought to happen. Nothing should prevent that from happening.Edited by Jeremy on July 13, 2019 2:36AM2 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭prototypefb wrote: »Eso is moving towards turn based game more and more
next, they'll introduce the eso version of v.a.t.s.
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Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would be happy if ultimates cost less energy and had cast times that could make them interruptable. Then they could be used more often and poeple would be rewarded for having interrupting skills and using them on an ultimate.0 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »that getting DBOS should atleast be seen in PvP. That was the reason.
You mean aside from- dropping your health bar
- knocking your character to the ground
- locking your abilities/actions via CC
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 2, 2025 7:40PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden4 -
Neophyte✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Why is this a good idea? Not only are the ultimates having cast times but weapon swapping is unreliable now since it seems like it also has a cast time or no longer able to animation cancel via weapon swap? Idk it just feels janky as hell. Slowing down combat, what is the combat team thinking?
Its probably their way of fixing the servers. Slow the game right down so the server can handle it. Then after that it will be tab targeting 1 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »I don’t think we need a new thread on this, @Micah_Bayer.
There are at least 3 of them in the PTS forums that players can comment in ...
I didn't know, well now they can see that a lot of players hate this change.
A lot? Most players are happy. It's just some 500ish people active on the forums that are mad af.
A lot of people left the game cause of combat.
I don't support their change btw, I'm indifferent to it.
What’s your evidence for most people being happy? Because almost everyone who has experience on PTS that has spoken about it has hated them. You don’t think people who like the change would not say that on feedback threads do you?
And a lot of people left after Morrowind combat changes, which were nerfs and sustain hits like this patch. Making combat deliberately slower and harder was what put people off. Whilst I’m sure you can find the ‘I quit because of ani cancelling’ people, it is the heart and soul of ESOs combat feel and without it the combat would be lifeless and dull.
Cast times suck, why do you think all but one cast time ability (Channeled Accel) aren’t used by most builds. The only other one that is (Crystal frags) is used only when it gives instant cast. People don’t like them, they make key things like weapon swap and weaving unreliable and generally screw up rotations. Very few people like this change.4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »that getting DBOS should atleast be seen in PvP. That was the reason.
You mean aside from- dropping your health bar
- knocking your character to the ground
- locking your abilities/actions via CC
[snip]
He was obviously talking about seeing the dawnbreaker animation before you get hit by the damage, but of course you knew that, [snip]
And yes, with human reaction time being ~215ms, an extra 400ms will definitely allow for counterplay.
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 2, 2025 7:41PM2 -
Neophyte✭✭✭prototypefb wrote: »Eso is moving towards turn based game more and more
next, they'll introduce the eso version of v.a.t.s.
LMAO2 -
TheYKcid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »that getting DBOS should atleast be seen in PvP. That was the reason.
You mean aside from- dropping your health bar
- knocking your character to the ground
- locking your abilities/actions via CC
[snip]
He was obviously talking about seeing the dawnbreaker animation before you get hit by the damage, but of course you knew that, [snip]
And yes, with human reaction time being ~215ms, an extra 400ms will definitely allow for counterplay.
Irrelevant. Competent players don't win or lose fights by margins of 400ms, and especially not in CP scenarios where all the added mitigation means killing combos are far more elaborate (occurring over several GCDs).
Counterplay in the ESO combat system (niche cases like like Dizzying Swing and Meteor aside) is and has always been proactive. You don't mitigate just as the burst is about to land, because by then it's probably too late, especially given the innate lag in most encounters. Good players are already holding block or initiating a roll almost a full second in advance, immediately following the previous GCD which was used to set-up said burst combo. If you're not capable of that, 400ms won't save you, especially under lag.
All this does is make combat clunkier and less reliable for proficient players. Bads who never understood how to ani cancel won't even notice the difference on the user's end.
I also wasn't going to make this personal, but seeing as I was labelled a [snip], I just thought I'd mention that I still remember our past interactions arguing over the Wings issue (and guess how that turned out, heehee), where you made your flimsy grasp of PvP combat dynamics very apparent, so I'm not particularly surprised at your stance on the issue. You probably also think ani-cancelling makes abilities resolve faster on live (hint: they don't).
You also made your status as a one-class DK main pretty clear, so it's even less surprising you support these changes. After all, Leap is the one burst ult that didn't have a cast-time added to it. Nerf everyone except me, amirite? But hey, I'm rolling a stamDK for that very reason, so what do I care.
[edited to remove quote & for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 2, 2025 7:42PMPC/NA — Daggerfall Covenant — BGs, Kaalgrontiid
Kalazar Chalhoub — Redguard Nord Stamplar
Kalaron Caemor — Altmer Magsorc
Kalahad Cirith — Dunmer Magden2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Counterplay in the ESO combat system (niche cases like like Dizzying Swing and Meteor aside) is and has always been proactive.
If that was the case abilities would not have telegraphs in this game.
People are expected to see and be able to react to incoming damage, and the PTS changes making it impossible to anim cancel high-powered ultimates like DBoS confirm it.You also made your status as a one-class DK main pretty clear, so it's even less surprising you support these changes.
The only class i haven't player regularly during those 5+ years is a sorcerer, but don't let that stop you from making assumptions about people you don't know.Edited by Sharee on July 13, 2019 10:48AM0 -
sweatapodimas✭✭✭Terrible change, everyone concerned should get on the PTS and see for themselves. Even those that think they like it will scratch their heads...
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa0 -
nexxus_ESO✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »
The counter is: if they have animations that can be eliminated entirely why did they bother making animations?
So the potatoes can make sound effects and watch pretty sparkles while they die. Duh!
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CambionDaemon✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »I would be happy if ultimates cost less energy and had cast times that could make them interruptable. Then they could be used more often and poeple would be rewarded for having interrupting skills and using them on an ultimate.
I would prefer the cost of Ultimates to be increased dramatically, around 350+ to all of them with corresponding buffs/damage increases.0
