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Grindy Skill Lines: Why Pay?
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DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »or just grind them?
I did the skill lines on 12 characters so far it's not that hard...
Some people have life and besides eso isn't the only game in the whole universe.
Yeah. And my boss should pay me for a 40 hour week even though I only worked 20. After all, I have two other part time jobs.
Why are you comparing work/job with a game? You pay to play a game to have fun. You get paid for a job because most likely no one would agree to do the job for free.
It isn't even about "having a life." It is about the game being enjoyable. Any reduction in mindless, repetitive grinding is a good thing. If people want that, there are loot shooters that are build around a mindless, repetitive grind.3 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So what's the absurd cost?PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade3 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I already bought one car at the dealership, I shouldn’t have to pay for or work for another one..."Get off my lawn!"2 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭HappyLittleTree wrote: »or just grind them?
I did the skill lines on 12 characters so far it's not that hard...
Some people have life and besides eso isn't the only game in the whole universe.
I play for 3 years now on console so i took my time.
also why hurry ?Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU4 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭If you want to grind them, go for it. I can’t stand doing the mage guild line, and I can’t wait to buy it for my magcro.1 -
Number_51✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »HappyLittleTree wrote: »or just grind them?
I did the skill lines on 12 characters so far it's not that hard...
Some people have life and besides eso isn't the only game in the whole universe.
Yeah. And my boss should pay me for a 40 hour week even though I only worked 20. After all, I have two other part time jobs.
Why are you comparing work/job with a game? You pay to play a game to have fun. You get paid for a job because most likely no one would agree to do the job for free.
It isn't even about "having a life." It is about the game being enjoyable. Any reduction in mindless, repetitive grinding is a good thing. If people want that, there are loot shooters that are build around a mindless, repetitive grind.
The comparison is irrelevant. I could have just as easily have used "I collected 10 bottle caps, but you should give me the other 20 I need for my free t-shirt. There are other drinks I enjoy ya know". The comment is about the recurring trend of people to want more and more for doing less and less.
I'm not opposed to people voicing their opinions about things they think need to change. Please, speak up, let your opinion be known. I'm am opposed to pretty much any "X needs to be account-wide" changes. That's just my opinion. I know I'm not alone in that for me the game is about character progression, but I'm fairly certain that we're in the minority, so I'm making my voice heard. Given the option, I would vote for CP (and pretty much anything else) to be earned on individual characters rather than be account-wide. And this is coming from someone has more then 30 characters currently and who leveled 3 characters to V14 and 2 to V16 when vet levels actually were per character.
As to the topic of the discussion, I absolutely do agree with "why pay?" I generally fall on the side of if you want the reward, put in the effort. I absolutely disagree with "we should just automatically get the skill lines". And if someone wants to pay for the "convenience" of not playing the content they already payed for, that's fine with me.3 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only really grindy skill line is Psijiic and why would anyone pay real money for that."The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***0 -
Numerous skill lines are for sale next patch.
#1 the cost is absurd
#2 if we’ve already grinded through the skill lines on one character. We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Come on community! Don’t just roll over and take it. Pay to win is a slippery slope. And don’t get charged for something you already earned!
Um. No.
You didn't earn jack on alts. You earned those skill lines on the character you played through with-once. Just because your Templar finished everything in the game once (let's say for example), doesn't mean your Warden (or 32 other alts) shouldn't have to. What other Western MMO does that? Even the ones (MMOS) that give you max level boosts don't max-out everything on the character - they give you max level and then you have to re-earn the other stuff. That's asking and expecting waayyy too much on a single play through of a game. Any game.
Or at least, any MMORPG that doesn't care about alt-play.
They want people to grind. They want avatars running around in their game, to encourage other avatars to run around in the game. They want the game to look populated. If the game LOOKS dead when new player A is running around, for any reason, then new player A will be more likely to quit for games that LOOK successful/more populated. If everyone and their 14 insta-capped alts are now all focused on end game (because max-covered-everything else on alts leaves nothing else but end game) raid/pvp/dungeons then every other zone in the game looks *more* dead.
They'd be shooting their own cash's foot off to say "ok level any skill line in game only once - every alt will be included now!" It would severely curtail the longevity of play for tons of players (whether they realized it was a pro or con or not). Whether you like the artificial time sinks or not, the fact is, that time you grind on screen is nothing but benefit for dev companies.
Unless they build the game model upon "one and done" - you are either going to pay out the arse for skipping alt-grinding (as you should) so you can cover the $$ loss from EVERYTHING ELSE that effects for the company -- or you are going to grind it yourself. But to make it a given, or to make it cheap - would be financially stupid and short-sighted for any company.
...your sense of entitlement with this would only end up bankrupting the game you want to play so bad you want to skip playing it.
If you think its a grind - don't grind up alts. Duh. If its not worth it to you to work on those skill lines again, then don't!
But it ain't never gonna be "all inclusive forever". And it ain't never gonna be cheap. At least, not without it being a cash grab before things go belly up.8 -
JadonSky✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Why? That's never happened in any other MMO I've played, so where does this idea even come from?
This isn't anything remotely like "achievements should be account-wide", it's much more entitled than that.
This comes from the "I should get a participation trophy" attitude of the new generation. The new generation of gamer are just lazy and its making games too easy and boring.4 -
FelixTheCatt✭✭✭It's the same thing I felt when WoW offered pay-to-level characters. Doesn't really affect me or my account really. It may benefit players that have extremely limited play time. Especially on alts. Only real negative I could see being a potential issue is someone gaining skills they don't know how to use which ultimately only hurts them. Someone paying for levelling in a skill line doesn't diminish your accomplishments.Xbox - Kuchini07
Eso - FaCoffinDye (EP)1 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
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Funny thing, the same people who say that are OK with paid services which boost characters. Hypocrisy at its finest.Kiralyn2000 wrote: »We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Why? That's never happened in any other MMO I've played, so where does this idea even come from?
This isn't anything remotely like "achievements should be account-wide", it's much more entitled than that.
This comes from the "I should get a participation trophy" attitude of the new generation. The new generation of gamer are just lazy and its making games too easy and boring.1 -
MyKillv2.0✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blah. Nevermind. Not worth the effort.Edited by MyKillv2.0 on July 11, 2019 4:00PM0 -
Gariele✭✭✭✭✭Instant gratification: is the desire to experience pleasure or fulfillment without delay or deferment. Basically, it's when you want it; and you want it now.
Entitlement: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privilegesPC/EUWinter Rose Autumn Rose Summer Rose Pacific Rose Midnight RoseRoseESO DiscordRoseESO Website3 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Numerous skill lines are for sale next patch.
#1 the cost is absurd
#2 if we’ve already grinded through the skill lines on one character. We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Come on community! Don’t just roll over and take it. Pay to win is a slippery slope. And don’t get charged for something you already earned!
Every time this IMHO ridiculous request comes across, it just amazes me. I don't understand the logic. You make a character, you level up the character doing a lot of stuff and hit level 50. You make a second, completely separate character. You level them by doing other things - (there are a LOT of ways to earn XP in this game ).
And without doing Any of the requirements, you just want Every character to " poof " be Gifted skills and skill points that that character did not earn. Don't hand me this ' It's all Me' nonsense, because it's Not. You are the Director of the character. You are Building a unique item. Item One you build a specific way. Item two you build in a different way, so it has different components. There is no Magic that suddenly adds components from one onto the other, and vice versa.
You knew how things were when you started playing the game. Maybe you didn't know how long it would take to max a character, or some specific skill line. But this is the game. You make one character at a time and you develop skills on each character from the ground up.
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Why? That's never happened in any other MMO I've played, so where does this idea even come from?
This isn't anything remotely like "achievements should be account-wide", it's much more entitled than that.
Other MMOs make old content obsolete and irrelevant, keeping the time to max out a new char fairly constant. In ESO if you want to max out your char, you have to do ALL of the content, because the Psijic skill line was not made obsolete by the Elsweyr release, and neither were the skill points you get there. And after 5 years of DLCs, there is a hell of a lot of such content. This makes it harder and harder for me to justify buying an additional char slot to level an alt.
There needs to be a catch-up mechanism that doesn't involve paying real money. It doesn't have to be an automatic unlock, but there has to be something that you can reasonably do in-game to gain those things faster once you've done the content with one char.
Completely disagree. IMHO - There is no basis for having any new system applied to level up/gain skills "faster" simply because - You did it once on a character.
Other MMOs may have content that became obsolete, but you Still Must start Every character from ground zero and EARN all the xp and skills you need for EVERY character you want to make. Maybe you decide not to bother with a skill line you consider obsolete, but that skill line is still available and some people probably use it. You don't get it for free just because you got it once.
You say you want a 'catch up' mechanism - yet do not explain exactly what you are 'catching up' TO. How many people on these forums have declared how quick and easy it is to reach l;evel 50? Had a person post at the start of this most recent event that they ran a character up For the event and got it to 50 in 24 hours.
There is also no justification to giving skills to characters that have not earned them. Example - your first character is an AD Altmer magplar DPS . So you build the character to that max. Then you want an AD Kajiit stamblade ganker with a bow. WHY would ANY skills from the first character be automatically applied to the second character?
Especially, since, as has been noted, this concept is Not used in other mmos?
Yeah, mmos like SWTOR and ARC games have coins where you can start with a level 50 or 60 character - mostly if you want to skip story and go right into PvP. But those skills are locked in. There is not the diversity of skills available to the character that we have here in ESO.
And then again, Luke Skywalker would not be allowed to be in SWTOR. Jedi are not ALLOWED to pick up a blaster and fire it. Every class has ONLY the specific weapon skills assigned to that class. Is that what you want? No more freedom to choose what weapons and skills your characters can use? But you can 'get them' on the next character of the same type faster? Edited by barney2525 on July 11, 2019 5:18PM4 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fighter's Guild is a grind. Psijic Order is a grind. Mages Guild is just plain cruel.
Other than those 3, "grinding" to level 50 on any other skill line is a joke. At this point, why not demand ZOS sell you a pre-made character with all the skyshards, attributes, skills, and morphs you desire? Then pay someone to play that character for you as the grind of playing the actual game is too much to bear.3 -
FelixTheCatt✭✭✭For someone that has never gotten an opportunity to do group situations , it could be a benefit for lines that pretty much require it like Undaunted.Xbox - Kuchini07
Eso - FaCoffinDye (EP)0 -
Huyen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Loads of discussion going on, still no pricetag...Huyen Shadowpaw, dedicated nightblade tank - PS4 (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, nightblade dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Lightpaw, templar healer - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, necromancer dps - PC EU (Retired)
Huyen Swiftpaw, dragonknight (no defined role yet)
"Failure is only the opportunity to begin again. Only this time, more wisely" - Uncle Iroh2 -
Vandril✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Numerous skill lines are for sale next patch.
#1 the cost is absurd
#2 if we’ve already grinded through the skill lines on one character. We should just automatically get the skill lines max level when a new character gets to level 50.
Come on community! Don’t just roll over and take it. Pay to win is a slippery slope. And don’t get charged for something you already earned!
Every time this IMHO ridiculous request comes across, it just amazes me. I don't understand the logic. You make a character, you level up the character doing a lot of stuff and hit level 50. You make a second, completely separate character. You level them by doing other things - (there are a LOT of ways to earn XP in this game ).
And without doing Any of the requirements, you just want Every character to " poof " be Gifted skills and skill points that that character did not earn. Don't hand me this ' It's all Me' nonsense, because it's Not. You are the Director of the character. You are Building a unique item. Item One you build a specific way. Item two you build in a different way, so it has different components. There is no Magic that suddenly adds components from one onto the other, and vice versa.
You knew how things were when you started playing the game. Maybe you didn't know how long it would take to max a character, or some specific skill line. But this is the game. You make one character at a time and you develop skills on each character from the ground up.
When I roll an alt, I'm not rolling it for the idea of having a different character to play, I'm rolling it because I want access to another class. I want access to all classes, and I'd certainly love to have them all on the same playing field when it comes to non-class skill availability. If I had my way, you'd be able to change classes in-game at an NPC in every major city. But you can't do that, and it would likely be difficult to recode a base feature of the game to allow for that. So, in the effort to strive for simplicity in how to accomplish what I wish to have, I instead desire my alt classes to have access to those skill lines I've earned.
Yeah, I get that rolling another character from an RP standpoint only makes sense if you DON'T have shared skills. Otherwise it ruins a sort of essential immersion. I do get that, and I do sometimes roll characters for that reason.
The reality is that class choice and character choice shouldn't even be connected. It's an arbitrary, antiquated game design decision that doesn't really make sense in any way other than "it's always been that way". Give me a non-crown way to change classes on my main, and you can keep your lack of skill-sharing without a peep from me.
I'd wager that, if they sit and consider for a while, many proponents for account wide skill progress would admit to feeling the same as I do.0 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
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@gonzoDonny_Vito wrote: »Harrdarrzarr wrote: »What is it that you win that others won't get by paying for those skill-lines?
PvP potentially, specifically for lower level characters. You could make a new character, get him to level 10, buy all the Skill Lines, and then go dominate Under-50 BGs and PvP.
So what? I can get psijic and mages guild at level 10 If i would grind it there. Undaunted is just passive wise and wont make you automaticly "dominate".
They only problem is fighters guild with dawnbreaker. But i dont think this is a big deal tbh.
Yes, maybe the word dominate was too strong. But the original question was how would buying these skill lines give you an advantage? You even stated two yourself: undaunted (6% more resources and resource gain on synergize) and fighters guild (dawnbreaker and weapon damage bonus passives). So yes, it sounds like we're both in agreement that there is an advantage....we just disagree on how large the potential advantage is.0 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ppl already grind and have db by lvl 4, some get meteor, soul assault line, and psijic. I've even seen destro ult, s&b ult, bow ult, 2h ult etc in under 50.
What exactly would it stop if they didn't offer these in the crown store @Donny_Vito?2 -
Attackfrog✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »
Too much! Lower!!!"You can have fun or you can have safety, but you can't have them both"
-A ten-year-old0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Harrdarrzarr wrote: »What is it that you win that others won't get by paying for those skill-lines?
PvP potentially, specifically for lower level characters. You could make a new character, get him to level 10, buy all the Skill Lines, and then go dominate Under-50 BGs and PvP.
Undaunted is not required for anything, it's just a luxury min/max boost. I could dominate under 50 bg's on a lowbie while only spamming sweeps. Any decent player could do the same as well.2 -
Donny_Vito✭✭✭✭✭
✭Donny_Vito wrote: »Harrdarrzarr wrote: »What is it that you win that others won't get by paying for those skill-lines?
PvP potentially, specifically for lower level characters. You could make a new character, get him to level 10, buy all the Skill Lines, and then go dominate Under-50 BGs and PvP.
Undaunted is not required for anything, it's just a luxury min/max boost. I could dominate under 50 bg's on a lowbie while only spamming sweeps. Any decent player could do the same as well.
I wasn't arguing that certain players are always going to be better than others, regardless of what skill lines they can buy. My point was simple: if two new characters are the same skill, gear, and class....and one buys all the skill lines and the other does not, then it's obvious that the person who bought the skill lines has an advantage over the other. Whether you think it's a significant advantage or just a minor one, you can't even try to argue that there isn't an advantage. That was all.
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