LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Yes I really think this will cripple average players. I've seen this happening already, and so did other players who have been around during Morrowind patch.

Yes, 3 dd meta in 4 man content is already a thing. Healers are not really needed in dungeons. This situation should be fixed (so that healers can enjoy the content too), it certainly shouldn't be made even worse.

And if vet trial healing is so easy and effortless, then why so few people manage to clear them? Why don't you have Zmaja's skin, for example? Or maybe it's not so easy after all?
Thing is, if you look at the best score runs on Youtube, there's a lot of insane healing and dps going on. That's because those players are literally the best of the best. But if you tried joining progression groups, you'd see that it's not the case for average players. Youtube videos and public eso logs are only a tip of the iceberg and are not representative of the majority of playerbase. There's so many videos of people getting 90-100+k parses on a trial dummy... But we both know very well that those players are part of a very small minority. Same with healing, average progression groups do wipe in execute phase of vHoF, for example, and even have to use Novas to reduce incoming damage (which means that even now their healing is not enough).

First of all, I dont actively play in PvE anymore and only enjoy PvP pretty much since Cloudrest was released. This is due to me not being able to dedicate enough time to play in both PvP and PvE raids, and not due to the content being too hard. I am in contact with several end-game people who easily clear this content every day and I´m pretty sure I could get in there and not take too long to get on their level and clear it as well.
Sure, progression groups have bigger problems, but what is the problem if they have to use more support mechanics like Novas to reduce damage or stam dds slotting vigor to survive? I dont see how that is a bad thing. People progress, at the beginning you will need to sacrifice damage for more healing and sustain, and the better you get the less of that stuff you need. This is the most normal thing in the world and totally fine as is.
Also, I dont support the idea of everyone being able to clear the HMs and No-Death Speedrun achievements in Trials. Elite players also need a challenge, thats what the hard modes are for. In my opinion its totally fine if only a small percentage of people clear these trials (imo its already too many)

I am just done with all the people whining on PTS before even testing the new stuff and just crying. It makes no sense.

It was the same with the resource changes in morrowind patches, people just dont like being nerfed even though everyone must have known that resource management before that was just a joke.

Converting my healer over to DPS and done with it. Hybrids are no good and I'm not wasting what little time I do get relearning class mechanics. Just means solo more.

N/A

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

NaranjaIslands wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NaranjaIslands wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

You use it multiple times. Even before - it only targeted two people at a time. I'd rather have to cast the spell twice and gain double the potency personally. This new regeneration should out perform the older regeneration in any context.

Have you tried it yet?

In this specific example as Group healer in vAS you cannot Keep the new Regeneration up. It lasts 10 seconds. You have 8 dps that want it. You only hit 1 per cast. You might hit your offtank once. If you want to Keep it up on dds you literally cannot do anything beyond spamming Regeneration since you will also have to move into range of Position 1 and 8. If you knew vAS you would know this.
So using orbs multiple times or god forbid healing springs is bad but spamming Regeneration until out of magicka is our very salvation?

Agree I find that funny how they contradict themself every post.
Blaming ppl about no skill cuz spam orb/grand healing (which is not the case, they'll know that if they were really healing period) but spamming Regen or Blessing/prayer make us skillful player ?

Geez that so stupid...

Show me one post where I blamed any healer for not having any skill?

I'll wait.

It's funny cuz I'm sure I've not say your name once in my post and was not even a reply to your post.
That just a general fact than you can find in any healing change related thread.
You're not the center of the world buddy.

You didn't say anyone's name.

I was just making it clear I never did that. And considering your post was in response to a post directed at me - it certainly wasn't an unreasonable assumption to consider you might have been referring to me. So I just wanted to make it crystal clear I was never questioning the skill of anyone.

I dunno who you are, but posting your needlessly combative responses in this thread *over the span of multiple days now* is not the best look for you.

A lot of us have other things to do, so when we do find the time to come back to this thread only to have to scroll through your posts derailing the discussion it just wastes even more time. You're being extremely inconsiderate. Bye

Ironic considering your own post is needlessly combative because I've said nothing inconsiderate to you.

If you don't like reading through my comments - simply put me on ignore and that should fix that problem for you.

Spinning the blame onto the accuser? Check.

Telling multiple people to "just put me on ignore." Check.

I see a pattern here. Your argument doesn't hold weight. It's one thing to offer constructive feedback, but to dedicate so many posts to defending your own ego? That's unnecessary, and a waste of time.

It may be time to take a step back and ask yourself *why* so many people aren't keen on tolerating your presence here. Try using a more constructive, less condescending tone. You'll see a lot better results. Good luck to you, and I hope that you feel better soon.

If people want me to use a more constructive tone - then they should adopt a more constructive tone themselves. Go re-read that post I was responding to. It was anything but constructive. I was actually far more polite and restrained that I should have been - especially considering I had said nothing even remotely rude to that poster.

As far as "tolerating" me...I'll just tell you the same thing I told those other posters. If you have a problem with my comments simply put on ignore. Problem solved. Then you will no longer have to "tolerate" me. Because it's getting very tedious reading all these meaningless post attempting to lecture me about how awful I am. I don't know why some forum posters seem think othes are suppose to care what they think of them personally. That's always been odd to me.

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

The changes to orbs affect healers and their ability to use them as layered HoTs over a large area. They do not reduce their necessity for resource return. If anything, the changes made elsewhere seem intent on exacerbating that issue. You're reveling in our frustration for naught, bros. You're still gonna be expected to run orbs in veteran content, because that's part of the job there.

Why do you not like orbs, by the way? It occurs, I don't think anyone ever actually asked you. Is it specifically because other people like them? Or is it all based in the one strange falsehood that you were supposed to spam them (which you weren't, and no one who knew what they were doing did)? Or is there something else altogether?

I have no problem with healers who use orbs. I've tried to make that clear, though obviously not with success.

My issue is more with end game conformity and how it trickles down on the rest of the community. It's become one of those weird obsessions like Retribution used to be - or Spell Power cure. That's where my disdain for orbs comes from. I've literally seen people demanding orb spam in Fungal Grotto 1 before.

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

The changes to orbs affect healers and their ability to use them as layered HoTs over a large area. They do not reduce their necessity for resource return. If anything, the changes made elsewhere seem intent on exacerbating that issue. You're reveling in our frustration for naught, bros. You're still gonna be expected to run orbs in veteran content, because that's part of the job there.

Why do you not like orbs, by the way? It occurs, I don't think anyone ever actually asked you. Is it specifically because other people like them? Or is it all based in the one strange falsehood that you were supposed to spam them (which you weren't, and no one who knew what they were doing did)? Or is there something else altogether?

Well actually with new monster set + the change to soul trap + te buff to mystic orb (so mDPS can use it) they don't really need healer anymore for that too.
If this patch hit, healer have no reason to exist anymore.

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

Converting my healer over to DPS and done with it. Hybrids are no good and I'm not wasting what little time I do get relearning class mechanics. Just means solo more.

I also retired my healer and went full DPS. Before I did both.

I never trust a healer. I self medicate.

Jeremy wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

I never trust a healer. I self medicate.

I don't blame you, really. And there is good reason for that.

When a healer has to locate you and then face in your direction first to heal you - that's never going to be able to compete with someone who can simply push a button on the keyboard to instantly heal themselves in an emergency. Especially on a chaotic fight that involves a lot of moving around.

It's a fundamental flaw when it comes to healing on this game generally. Healers need the capability to effectively and reliably replace self healing to be effective. Otherwise players will wisely opt just to heal themselves instead. That's what causes the role of healer to become largely situational and essential mostly just during times of consistent wide spread damage.

Healers can't replace self healing in this game simply because of the any class any role. So everyone has "self heals" available to them in their kit. So by your logic, you want to take everyone's heals away from them and only have 1 class able to heal, seems a bit extreme.

still grumbling about the orbs even though the devs made it so one orb can be synergised by multiple people. being able to throw a few orbs here and there was a great way to HEAL multiple people spread out all over the place, especially as a non templar

Just going to re-post this here from another thread:

Some of my logs for those who are saying that all end game healers currently do is spam Orbs and Springs:



Yes, there are 56 Orb casts, but look at all else that is being done as well: casting many Vigors to proc PA; many Harvests for synergies for Major Slayer; Blockade for Off-Balance; many Combat Prayers for Berserk; Enchanted Growth for Minor Endurance; other skills for other buffs. I hardly cast any Illustrious Healing at all.

Yes, Orbs dominate in that they are the skill I cast most frequently, but this is because 1 Orb offers sustain to 1 DD at a time, whereas all my other skills offer sustained buffs for multiple people at a time. Most Orbs are necessary casts to provide 8 DDs with sustain, not "mindless spam". The overhealing is simply a side effect of needing to throw many Orbs so that my DDs have the necessary resources to do damage.

I do not mention this to say that the current system is flawless, but to drive home that end game healers do more than spam Orbs, and that we throw them largely out of necessity. I hope that if the one Orb change comes to pass, we are given something else to do in between keeping up all of these other long-lasting buffs, and now even longer-lasting HoT that is Grand Healing. Please keep in mind that sustained healing over time is NOT necessary in most raid encounters-- there are short bursts where intensive healing is needed, and then phases where little to no incoming damage happens at all. I would like to still be able to contribute to the group in ways other than "just" healing, or waiting around for healing these high damage moments.

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

The changes to orbs affect healers and their ability to use them as layered HoTs over a large area. They do not reduce their necessity for resource return. If anything, the changes made elsewhere seem intent on exacerbating that issue. You're reveling in our frustration for naught, bros. You're still gonna be expected to run orbs in veteran content, because that's part of the job there.

Why do you not like orbs, by the way? It occurs, I don't think anyone ever actually asked you. Is it specifically because other people like them? Or is it all based in the one strange falsehood that you were supposed to spam them (which you weren't, and no one who knew what they were doing did)? Or is there something else altogether?

I have no problem with healers who use orbs. I've tried to make that clear, though obviously not with success.

My issue is more with end game conformity and how it trickles down on the rest of the community. It's become one of those weird obsessions like Retribution used to be - or Spell Power cure. That's where my disdain for orbs comes from. I've literally seen people demanding orb spam in Fungal Grotto 1 before.

I did not say you had a problem with healers who use orbs. Stop strawmanning lol. I asked why you said, in the post I quoted, "I didn't like [orbs] either."

So just to recap, you don't actually think there's anything wrong with the skill existing, you just "have disdain" for them because other people like them and appreciate their resource return, and that just .. rubs you the wrong way, based on sheer principle?

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

The changes to orbs affect healers and their ability to use them as layered HoTs over a large area. They do not reduce their necessity for resource return. If anything, the changes made elsewhere seem intent on exacerbating that issue. You're reveling in our frustration for naught, bros. You're still gonna be expected to run orbs in veteran content, because that's part of the job there.

Why do you not like orbs, by the way? It occurs, I don't think anyone ever actually asked you. Is it specifically because other people like them? Or is it all based in the one strange falsehood that you were supposed to spam them (which you weren't, and no one who knew what they were doing did)? Or is there something else altogether?

I have no problem with healers who use orbs. I've tried to make that clear, though obviously not with success.

My issue is more with end game conformity and how it trickles down on the rest of the community. It's become one of those weird obsessions like Retribution used to be - or Spell Power cure. That's where my disdain for orbs comes from. I've literally seen people demanding orb spam in Fungal Grotto 1 before.

I did not say you had a problem with healers who use orbs. Stop strawmanning lol. I asked why you said, in the post I quoted, "I didn't like [orbs] either."

So just to recap, you don't actually think there's anything wrong with the skill existing, you just "have disdain" for them because other people like them and appreciate their resource return, and that just .. rubs you the wrong way, based on sheer principle?

It wasn't a "strawman".

I was attempting to explain to you it's not really orbs itself or healers using orbs that I dislike. It's the weird obsession for it that has been cultivated on the game.

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

snarkomatic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

I'm glad I won't be forced to equip Orbs anymore. They didn't fit into my Warden healer flavor and style.

I didn't like them either. I'm hoping these changes will stop all the nagging for them.

The changes to orbs affect healers and their ability to use them as layered HoTs over a large area. They do not reduce their necessity for resource return. If anything, the changes made elsewhere seem intent on exacerbating that issue. You're reveling in our frustration for naught, bros. You're still gonna be expected to run orbs in veteran content, because that's part of the job there.

Why do you not like orbs, by the way? It occurs, I don't think anyone ever actually asked you. Is it specifically because other people like them? Or is it all based in the one strange falsehood that you were supposed to spam them (which you weren't, and no one who knew what they were doing did)? Or is there something else altogether?

I have no problem with healers who use orbs. I've tried to make that clear, though obviously not with success.

My issue is more with end game conformity and how it trickles down on the rest of the community. It's become one of those weird obsessions like Retribution used to be - or Spell Power cure. That's where my disdain for orbs comes from. I've literally seen people demanding orb spam in Fungal Grotto 1 before.

I did not say you had a problem with healers who use orbs. Stop strawmanning lol. I asked why you said, in the post I quoted, "I didn't like [orbs] either."

So just to recap, you don't actually think there's anything wrong with the skill existing, you just "have disdain" for them because other people like them and appreciate their resource return, and that just .. rubs you the wrong way, based on sheer principle?

It wasn't a "strawman".

I was attempting to explain to you it's not really orbs itself or healers using orbs that I dislike. It's the weird obsession for it that has been cultivated on the game.

Why do you see it as an obsession? What about all the other spells that every healer is expected to run, e.g. Combat Prayer, Elemental Blockade, Elemental Drain, etc.?

Why are you not campaigning just as rabidly against every other utility spell we all run? Why do orbs, specifically, trigger you so hard? I genuinely want to know.

Oh I campaigned heavily against Retribution back in the day - also that Spell Power Cure set. This is nothing new for me don't worry. Anytime there is some skill or set the masses demand or else I quickly develop contempt for them.

I don't know if "trigger" is the right word. But it certainly strikes me as ludicrous when nearly every healer I play with is either shooting orbs at me none stop or getting ridiculed and told off by the rest of the party for not doing so. This obsession for obs has gotten way out of hand - even to the point people are demanding it in Fungal Grotto 1. I mean give me a break.