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Let's talk about the healing changes...
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iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?I put on my robe and wizard hat3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 9:57AM0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning.
Positioning too difficult for you?
I asked the other dude how he's healing vet trials, but I noticed that his experience is pretty much limited to someone like an armchair healer.
2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning.
Positioning too difficult for you?
I asked the other dude how he's healing vet trials, but I noticed that his experience is pretty much limited to someone like an armchair healer.
Sometimes yeah - especially in pugs and on fights where everyone is spread out and running all over the place. IN my experience - it's just not feasible to expect everyone to either be standing near you or in front of you. In organized Trial Runs where everyone is communicating and corrdinated it's less of a concern. But for those of us who pug dungeons a lot it can be a nightmare. And having a more potent heal independent of positioning would help me a lot.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 10:12AM0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I put on my robe and wizard hat6 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Did a vet dungeon, heal was more or less the same. Did about 20% of the group dps too. Tank build for being tanky, dps @50-60k each. I heal as normal really.
1) the Orbs don't have a cool down, they dissappear when you cast a new one. Same goes with springs.
2) I used mutagen instead of rapids so my view might be skewed. But it does target the lowest health ally, albeit I keep my allies in front of me so I didn't know if it does target allies behind me.
3) healing ward is an excellent stop gap now, since it heals for the remaining amount as long as its up. We purposely let the tank take some hits, and back to full health with 2 1/2 buttons, why 1/2? Because I basically keep mutagen up at all times. Once the health drops, a ward then a prayer and boom, he is back to full health.
4) I was also using a sorc healer, no pets. Quick Siphon, Orbs, empowered ward, liquid flood, shattering prison, destroy staff back bar. Mutagen, healing ward, prayer, springs, ring of preservation, resto front bar.
I have to say though, ive used matriarch for the heals before but it's... Buggy at best since they can actually bug out events and also their positioning can be abit dicey. (it's not whether they can attack the boss well but more so to grab the majority of allies in the burst heal).
Hope this helps.
While I appreciate the post and view from the 4 man content on the pts, the problem is in the vet trials area mostly.
I would like to also add that this is the same healer that I go to trials for. The problem with pts is that it's hard to grab people to test a trial.
While I might not agree with some of the changes, I do think that these will galvanise players to have a fresh perspective in terms of their healing gameplay, group dynamics or even group setup. This has the same outcry for the loss of sap tanks but, its already 3 years ahead and we are still here.
Analyse, adapt and act upon the changes, that's my call.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Did a vet dungeon, heal was more or less the same. Did about 20% of the group dps too. Tank build for being tanky, dps @50-60k each. I heal as normal really.
1) the Orbs don't have a cool down, they dissappear when you cast a new one. Same goes with springs.
2) I used mutagen instead of rapids so my view might be skewed. But it does target the lowest health ally, albeit I keep my allies in front of me so I didn't know if it does target allies behind me.
3) healing ward is an excellent stop gap now, since it heals for the remaining amount as long as its up. We purposely let the tank take some hits, and back to full health with 2 1/2 buttons, why 1/2? Because I basically keep mutagen up at all times. Once the health drops, a ward then a prayer and boom, he is back to full health.
4) I was also using a sorc healer, no pets. Quick Siphon, Orbs, empowered ward, liquid flood, shattering prison, destroy staff back bar. Mutagen, healing ward, prayer, springs, ring of preservation, resto front bar.
I have to say though, ive used matriarch for the heals before but it's... Buggy at best since they can actually bug out events and also their positioning can be abit dicey. (it's not whether they can attack the boss well but more so to grab the majority of allies in the burst heal).
Hope this helps.
While I appreciate the post and view from the 4 man content on the pts, the problem is in the vet trials area mostly.
I would like to also add that this is the same healer that I go to trials for. The problem with pts is that it's hard to grab people to test a trial.
While I might not agree with some of the changes, I do think that these will galvanise players to have a fresh perspective in terms of their healing gameplay, group dynamics or even group setup. This has the same outcry for the loss of sap tanks but, its already 3 years ahead and we are still here.
Analyse, adapt and act upon the changes, that's my call.
How do you think you'll make it through the heal checks in vCR +3 and vHoF HM executes with the changes on a sorc healer without orbs or springs spam? Honestly curious, cause that's one of my main concerns with the changes is that I don't think there will be healing classes that will be able to do them anymore if the changes go through.I put on my robe and wizard hat6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 10:29AM0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?I put on my robe and wizard hat0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 10:43AM0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.I put on my robe and wizard hat10 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning.
Positioning too difficult for you?
I asked the other dude how he's healing vet trials, but I noticed that his experience is pretty much limited to someone like an armchair healer.
Sometimes yeah - especially in pugs and on fights where everyone is spread out and running all over the place. IN my experience - it's just not feasible to expect everyone to either be standing near you or in front of you. In organized Trial Runs where everyone is communicating and corrdinated it's less of a concern. But for those of us who pug dungeons a lot it can be a nightmare. And having a more potent heal independent of positioning would help me a lot.
One of the most important healing skills that I learned asap back in the days when I still pug and don't belong to any highly operational guild was positioning. Anyone who asked me about healing, that's the first thing I usually point out. You sound like you need to pick up that healer more and actually learn positioning, which by the way does not mean simply chasing around people.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 10:58AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning.
Positioning too difficult for you?
I asked the other dude how he's healing vet trials, but I noticed that his experience is pretty much limited to someone like an armchair healer.
Sometimes yeah - especially in pugs and on fights where everyone is spread out and running all over the place. IN my experience - it's just not feasible to expect everyone to either be standing near you or in front of you. In organized Trial Runs where everyone is communicating and corrdinated it's less of a concern. But for those of us who pug dungeons a lot it can be a nightmare. And having a more potent heal independent of positioning would help me a lot.
One of the most important healing skills that I learned asap back in the days when I still pug and don't belong to any highly operational guild was positioning. Anyone who asked me about healing, that's the first thing I usually point out. You sound like you need to pick up that healer more and actually learn positioning, which by the way does not mean simply chasing around people.
There is no "position" in the world you can put yourself in to heal people scattered and running in all directions.
There is a reason you see healers so often begging for people to stack on them. So any change that will help me heal in situations like that I'm going to be supportive of.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 11:01AM0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Did a vet dungeon, heal was more or less the same. Did about 20% of the group dps too. Tank build for being tanky, dps @50-60k each. I heal as normal really.
1) the Orbs don't have a cool down, they dissappear when you cast a new one. Same goes with springs.
2) I used mutagen instead of rapids so my view might be skewed. But it does target the lowest health ally, albeit I keep my allies in front of me so I didn't know if it does target allies behind me.
3) healing ward is an excellent stop gap now, since it heals for the remaining amount as long as its up. We purposely let the tank take some hits, and back to full health with 2 1/2 buttons, why 1/2? Because I basically keep mutagen up at all times. Once the health drops, a ward then a prayer and boom, he is back to full health.
4) I was also using a sorc healer, no pets. Quick Siphon, Orbs, empowered ward, liquid flood, shattering prison, destroy staff back bar. Mutagen, healing ward, prayer, springs, ring of preservation, resto front bar.
I have to say though, ive used matriarch for the heals before but it's... Buggy at best since they can actually bug out events and also their positioning can be abit dicey. (it's not whether they can attack the boss well but more so to grab the majority of allies in the burst heal).
Hope this helps.
While I appreciate the post and view from the 4 man content on the pts, the problem is in the vet trials area mostly.
I would like to also add that this is the same healer that I go to trials for. The problem with pts is that it's hard to grab people to test a trial.
While I might not agree with some of the changes, I do think that these will galvanise players to have a fresh perspective in terms of their healing gameplay, group dynamics or even group setup. This has the same outcry for the loss of sap tanks but, its already 3 years ahead and we are still here.
Analyse, adapt and act upon the changes, that's my call.
How do you think you'll make it through the heal checks in vCR +3 and vHoF HM executes with the changes on a sorc healer without orbs or springs spam? Honestly curious, cause that's one of my main concerns with the changes is that I don't think there will be healing classes that will be able to do them anymore if the changes go through.
Its my concern as well. As of right now, my thoughts are
1) a defensive ult, like absorption field or bolstering darkness.
2) having at least one or two dps slot an aoe or utility heal. As far as I have tested, multiple players can 'stack' springs but it wouldn't be efficient. Ring of preservation is an excellent utility heal, so is bone shield by a healer (for utility, not heals though.)
3) I believe there is a reason why one of the new tank sets were based on healing received. The problem is, for a coordinated group, rearranging and reshuffling gear shouldn't be a problem. It's when progression groups that might be abit hindered because of their limited group setup.
My two cents.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!2 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.I put on my robe and wizard hat6 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I just hope these changes don't scare people away from healing in vet PvE content. We need people to want to take support roles. If it becomes more sweaty and stressful, why the *** would people do it?
I know these forums are fully of flexbois and PvP egos who happily say good riddance, and love to smack nubs with git gud memes but we need to maintain the playing population.
Fact is, some people will leave for whatever reason, we need others to step up. They won't if we and the game make it too hard and frustrating to do so. Think beyond your 6 man tower crew and your rusted on elite trial guild.
It sure has scared me off it. Stress is not fun.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.0 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.
Seriously tho, how much of a pain is it to really turn a direction? You must be the single laziest person in the entire world to think that turning a direction (even if it's behind you) is a pain. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it when people are behind the healer anymore than you do and I'm sure most people would agree to that, doesn't mean we just applaud a healing nerf because of 1 ability got a buff so you can keep being extra lazy....I put on my robe and wizard hat8 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.
"cone" is a bit of misnomer, it is really a semicircle. literally half a circle, you really just have to glance your toon in their direction to heal them.
the "cone" of breath looks like this-
9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.
Seriously tho, how much of a pain is it to really turn a direction? You must be the single laziest person in the entire world to think that turning a direction (even if it's behind you) is a pain. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it when people are behind the healer anymore than you do and I'm sure most people would agree to that, doesn't mean we just applaud a healing nerf because of 1 ability got a buff so you can keep being extra lazy....
If it was just one person - probably not so bad. But when you have multiple people scattered all over the place taking damage it's a pain. I can only look in one direction at a time - assuming I even know where they have run off too to begin with.
It drives me crazy.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 11:29AM0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
Edited by hasi on July 11, 2019 11:32AM28 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
I don't remember calling anyone's argument "invalid". That's actually what people have been doing to me.
So it seems to me you should be directing this at them instead of us.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 11:42AM1 -
hasi✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
I don't remember calling anyone's argument "invalid". That's actually what people have been doing to me.
So it seems to me you should be directing this at them instead of us.
I don't have to talk to someone, who is more stubborn than a mule and has to find a way to argue about every choice of word. Stop being so picky, you'd do a lot of people a favor. Thanks.10 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
I don't remember calling anyone's argument "invalid". That's actually what people have been doing to me.
So it seems to me you should be directing this at them instead of us.
I don't have to talk to someone, who is more stubborn than a mule and has to find a way to argue about every choice of word. Stop being so picky, you'd do a lot of people a favor. Thanks.
I'm not arguing about every choice of word. But I am correcting the part where you gave the impression I was trying to tell everyone their argument was invalid. Because I never did that. That's actually what your side of this debate was doing.Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 11:53AM1 -
hasi✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
I don't remember calling anyone's argument "invalid". That's actually what people have been doing to me.
So it seems to me you should be directing this at them instead of us.
I don't have to talk to someone, who is more stubborn than a mule and has to find a way to argue about every choice of word. Stop being so picky, you'd do a lot of people a favor. Thanks.
I'm not arguing about every choice of word. But I am correcting the part where you gave the impression I was trying to tell everyone their argument was invalid. Because I never did that. That's actually what your side of this debate was doing.
I am sorry if I offended you there. Anyway I gave you a ton of reasons why People want Orbs/Springs to either stay unchanged or less heavily changed. So could you please do me the favor and not bother me with such little things, unless you have something constructive to say. Thanks.5 -
iLLcrime✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.
Seriously tho, how much of a pain is it to really turn a direction? You must be the single laziest person in the entire world to think that turning a direction (even if it's behind you) is a pain. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it when people are behind the healer anymore than you do and I'm sure most people would agree to that, doesn't mean we just applaud a healing nerf because of 1 ability got a buff so you can keep being extra lazy....
If it was just one person - probably not so bad. But when you have multiple people scattered all over the place taking damage it's a pain. I can only look in one direction at a time - assuming I even know where they have run off too to begin with.
It drives me crazy.
But you don't do trials, so at most (your multiple people) you'd have 2, running all over the place.. assuming the tank isn't one of them. Come on man!I put on my robe and wizard hat5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, I stopped writing in this thread as I already read about the Healing Opinion of @Jeremy in an older one, and I couldn't be bothered to argue with him like the People there. But honestly after reading all this BS from him and @Seraphayel, I have to tell you two something. Excuse my choice of words, but I can't define your arguments for your opinion better.
First of all, I don't care if people have another opinion, but if they start to argue with others of another opinion, trying to tell them how "invalid" their arguments are, but not considering how invalid their own are, I could just explode.
Your Arguments are often followed by "I did heal Trial/Vet DLC Content" - obviously not all, else you would have had to use Orbs/Springs[-"Spam"] for example at some time.
And there it already starts, where we can possibly limit your experience to Craglorn Trials, maybe with Hms, and maybe even Vmol - as you do not say yourself which Raids exactly you have cleared.
I am limiting your experience to these Trials, as in others people would be most likely not in PUGs, but Guilds.
And I can't imagine a Guild accepting a Healer, who doesn't want to use Orbs[/Springs] aka denies to be a Support for the Group. FYI, Support is far more than "Orb Spamming", it also consists of using Elemental Blockade to set Enemies Off-Balance, Ele Drain, special Synergies(Spiders, Bone Shield..), War Horn and far more - so please, do not only consider the only Support of a Healer being to spam Orbs, lmao.
[Also, VAA can be run with just one Healer, meaning it's not such a Challenge. Plus I can imagine if you did heal this Trial, that you had a 2nd Healer in your Pocket, who spammed Orbs for two. To say the least, you can pretty much come through all Craglorn Raids, even with Hm, without a lot of Bubble Support aka one Healer denying to make use of it.]
And generally at this point I start to question, what you guys do as Healers if you call them a Role, which is only intended to Heal.
I already know @Seraphayel will say now "I never said, that I don't use these Skills.", but you did say, what I mentioned in the sentence before.
So why don't you do that? Why don't you just heal? But with what would you mindlessly heal? Healing Springs aren't allowed, it would be considered "Spamming" plus you are against Healers using it as Main Heal. What would you do? Spam Combat Prayer, Regeneration? Oh, wait... I forgot, you are against the "braindead spamming" of a Skill.
But honestly, what do you do in the Poison Phase in VSO Hm at the Last Boss? Or VAA Hm, when the Atros explode or in the Execute? Do you want to tell me, that you spam your "Oh-Damn-Heal"[BoL, Shrooms in Warden, Twilight on Sorc..] or do you just let People die? Or do you just let the other Healer carry you in that Section?
_______
In the end both of you will end up spamming/mainly using another Skills, which is less effective than Orbs/Healing Springs, which limits yourself to exactly that, what you don't want to do as a Healer.
Or does it matter so greatly to you whether a Person "spams" Healings Springs or Combat Prayer? Apropos "spamming" - did you ever consider, that people use so many Orbs because all DDs want to get one? And the Tank with Alkosh on Top?
Orbs aren't mainly used for their Heals - in my opinion they could nerf their Heal to the Ground, I couldn't care less -, but for the Synergie they give. There is no other Skill like Orbs in the game, no Skill, which can be constantly thrown out several times in Practice and giving every Group Member an effective Synergy. A Synergy, that proccs Sets like Alkosh and the StamDD [META] Set Lokkestiz. [Plus gives Ressources.]
For Example:
1)Spider Synergy can only be used, when the DD is far enough away from the Target.
2)Bone Surge can only be used, when the Healer pretty much stacks on that DD.
3)Warden Flower Field can only be used, when a DD/Tank stands in the Middle of it before it runs out.
4)Templar Ritual can only be used once during the Duration and no one really wants to spam it, let's be real.
5)Sorc Healer's Liquid Lightning is only likely to be activated by the person wearing Alkosh.
6)Templar Shard needs to be thrown properly, and has to be "Spammed". The thing is tho, that you do not see, when someone took the Synergy plus you can't spam it like Orbs as it would just disappear & then reappear.
As you see, there isn't much left, which could provide useful Synergies for these Sets.
Last, but not least, Healing Springs are the only effective Way to outheal certain Mechanics until another Hits. BoL Spam or such would cost a Healer too many Ressources and thus would leave them unprepared for the next incoming Damage Tick. Combat Prayer wouldn't hit all People, especially not in Situations like in Vhof Execute/Vmol Execute for example, where you can't Position on top of each other. The new Regeneration would also cost quite a lot and it would have to be used multiple times to apply on all People damaged. Warden Blossom Field[Comes to the Point, which Morph you use], if you even have a Warden with you, needs to be activated by someone standing in it. And you can't "layer" it. And so on. I think you get my Point.
Looking at what I wrote, even you should somehow see, that there are no Skills like Orbs/Springs available. No one tells you to use either of them, but please let us use them for our own willing and fun. Don't try to talk us out of it. Thanks.
[BTW: I don't fully disagree with the Changes, and I think Stileanima's/Tabatta's Ideas for a Solution of this Change are great. Limiting the Orbs to 4 per Healer, leaving Springs, so that they can be layered still, but with every Spring the Cost Increases...]
I don't remember calling anyone's argument "invalid". That's actually what people have been doing to me.
So it seems to me you should be directing this at them instead of us.
I don't have to talk to someone, who is more stubborn than a mule and has to find a way to argue about every choice of word. Stop being so picky, you'd do a lot of people a favor. Thanks.
I'm not arguing about every choice of word. But I am correcting the part where you gave the impression I was trying to tell everyone their argument was invalid. Because I never did that. That's actually what your side of this debate was doing.
I am sorry if I offended you there. Anyway I gave you a ton of reasons why People want Orbs/Springs to either stay unchanged or less heavily changed. So could you please do me the favor and not bother me with such little things, unless you have something constructive to say. Thanks.
You didn't offend me, but It wasn't a "little thing" to me either and was worth pointing out. But I"ll drop it and try to be constructive and say I was never trying to give you the impression I did not think your concerns were valid. I just believe these changes - at least on paper - look good for the game is all. And I've tried to explain why.
If it turns out your concerns are warranted and healers are unable to successfully heal trials with these changes I'll happily support you on your efforts to ask for improvements. Just so long as those improvements don't involve bringing back orb spamming. ^^Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 12:28PM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »The changes are bad in your opinion. They’re good in mine. Your standpoint has many supporter, mine has too. Maybe both sides shouldn’t be so focused on their own view and be open for the other side? I’ll try to.
This is like saying, "I oppose vaccinations. You support vaccinations. I have people who agree with me, you have people who agree with you. Our opinions are on equal footing."
No. One side has the backing of expertise. The other is fueled by ignorance and misconception.
The point was there is more to this game than AoE phases during a veteran trial. That is not the only realm of expertise that matters.
There are many healers who may benefit from these changes depending on the content they are involved in. Your side seems to believe everything revolves around 12 people during an AoE phase in a trial. And while it's fine to bring that up - it's not fine to dismiss everyone else who likes these changes because it benefits the content they are involved in as ignorant and misconceived.
How was the pre-nerf healing causing issues for you?
This is mostly a player issue - but often times healing styles developed by the Veteran Trial crowd are expected to be replicated by the community abroad. There is a trickle down effect - and healers are thus perceived as buff bots or orb spammers and that kind of play is demanded of others, even in a non Veteran trial situation.
I still remember back when retribution and spell power cure were popular among the Veteran Trial crowd and healers in pugs were routinely savaged and kicked from groups for not conforming to those styles. So it can have an affect in that way - and this orb nonsense was starting to approach that level. So I suppose you could say it causes issues in that way.
But honestly that doesn't have a whole lot to do with why I support these changes. I support them mainly because I like the changes to regeneration - which should make it a more potent and reliable heal that isn't reliant on specific positioning. I don't really support these changes because pre-nerf healing was causing issue for me. I dislike the way healing functions on this game generally and believe it needs an overhaul in it 's totality.
And you think that somehow this is going to fix those issues for you? Sure, regeneration will still be a decent option in 4 man content assuming you're lucky enough to not get voted out for another DPS that can do your job plus actual DPS on top of that. If anything these changes will make your pug life harder as people won't want a healer for them anymore more so than before.
I"m not really worried about being voted out for another DPS. That's not a concern of mine - because that has literally never happened to me before.
What I am interested in though is having a better non-positional heal that might actually keep someone alive. It would make my job as a healer a lot more enjoyable and I see this change as having the potential to do that.
What class are you healing on?
Templar - which I used to enjoy healing on until they made my breath of life only target players in front of me. It's very annoying for me to try to heal DPS who are taking damage when they are behind me or to the side of me - and no where near my ritual. Often times regeneration is really the only spell I can effectively target wayward players with. So I am hoping I can use this new regeneration to heal players with instead of trying to chase them down with breath of life - which I can reserve for the tank who I can actually position to heal reliably.
I'm sorry, but you're on a Templar and can't be bothered to turn a certain direction to use a BoL? You also said you haven't used your healer in like a year but now you said you liked healing on it until they made it so you had to be looking in the proper direction for the BoL to hit, having said that.. that change was made with the Elsweyr update, which wasn't a year ago.
The Elsewyre update only changed the secondary heal on Breath of Life. The main heal was changed to frontal awhile ago. If it wasn't a year - it was close to it.
But yes - it can be a huge pain to run in the direction of the person who needs healing sometimes. Especially when they running all over the place.
It's a 28m cone if I remember correctly, so you shouldn't be running after anyone. Just slightly move your mouse the direction they are running around and use the skill... I don't know what kind of people you run with or 4 man content that are more than 28m away from you and the tank. If people want to do that stuff, let them die.. They don't deserve the heal anyways.
Often I do have to let them die. It is a cone - but when they are behind you or way off to the side cone or no cone, it's a pain.
Regeneration is one of the few healing spells that you can instantly heal people from any direction and at good range.
Seriously tho, how much of a pain is it to really turn a direction? You must be the single laziest person in the entire world to think that turning a direction (even if it's behind you) is a pain. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it when people are behind the healer anymore than you do and I'm sure most people would agree to that, doesn't mean we just applaud a healing nerf because of 1 ability got a buff so you can keep being extra lazy....
If it was just one person - probably not so bad. But when you have multiple people scattered all over the place taking damage it's a pain. I can only look in one direction at a time - assuming I even know where they have run off too to begin with.
It drives me crazy.
But you don't do trials, so at most (your multiple people) you'd have 2, running all over the place.. assuming the tank isn't one of them. Come on man!
Unfortunately it wasn't uncommon for my tank to be running around either back when I healed regularly in pugs. At least half the time they were fake and kited everything that came their direction. It was hell.
I've never played an MMORPG where you had to look at the person you want to heal anyway. I think it's utterly stupid to be frank with you and can't stand it - and I enjoyed healing way more before they changed that.
Edited by Jeremy on July 11, 2019 12:27PM0
