leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gotta love all the people saying 'It doesn't matter just run X food if you pick Y race' you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence. If the racial matters so much that I need to run a different consumable if I'm not playing a Magicka Breton THEN YES THEY MATTER.

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, the fact this is an Elder Scrolls game but so utterly limited because of just how powerful/important racials are SUCKS. The fact I can only play an Altmer or Breton as a MAGICKA character or otherwise actively gimp myself is so stupid. Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter? Why not give everyone the freedom to play any class/attribute with any race they want?

And it's not just that you can say 'Well if you go Altmer you just won't be the best stamina nightblade' No no no, this isn't about being 'BEST' you'll be USELESS, you'll have ZERO bonuses compared to others that scale up.

You already changed the racials once why not just freaking end this? And Khajit being the only ones with sneak bonus, honestly URGH

Because ESO is a TES universe game and TES games are openworld RPG'S and where you come from is important to your character, it helps define your build, it adds depth. If racials were just "flavor and didn't matter" what would be the point?

I'm not really for just pushing lore aside and dumbing down the game. If you want dumbed down go play WoW or something, everyone has the same builds there pretty much.

Gotta love this in particular, you imply there is no point if the racials were just for for 'flabour and didn't matter' then literally go on to say you don't want lore pushed aside. Since when the hell exactly has lore=gameplay in this game before? Have you even played the game lately? The classes are all very lore accurate are they? Get out.

Well actually I was just quoting you there, you asked "Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter"? And I was explaining why we need them. As a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) notice the RPG part, role playing game. ROLE PLAYING. Racial traits add a level of depth to the role playing element.

Pretty clear and simple really. For example, in the lore, dunmer have always had a natural resistance to fire. It makes perfect sense they get this in eso. Redguard have always been amazing sword fighters and warriors, so it makes sense they have good stamina. etc etc.

Remove racials and just make everyone the same and you take something away from the game. So no. You "get out"

OP:

I think the recent racials overhaul made this a lot better and I really like where it is now. I play an imperial magplar. Not top tier DPS but the extra health and stamina is a little survivability cushion that I welcome, especially in pvp.

I would guess that race typically only affects DPS by like 5% anyway... Anyone know a more concrete number?

Lots of reasons for playing a particular MMO. There's lore, flavour, art style.. story, whatever. Racial passives and abilities are important in the setting. It's what makes things different (otherwise, why bother with races at all, we could all be grey things with the appropriate number of limbs to attach weapons to).

Whatever your playstyle, either pick what you like, or min/max and pick what's most effective (coz if you're only after scores/maxing.. what doe's it matter what you look like).

TBH, I rather have birthsigns(Stars?) like other TES games and put the racials in there. Just keep the flavors that aren't really combat related on the races. argonians swimfaster orcs are good at blacksmithing.exp. Let cosmetic be cosmetic choices and combat choices be combat. No race is incapable lore wise between mag and stam.

But I think orc shouldn't get tank size health and the best damage passives. That doesn't make since combat wise there is no balance on that scale. I hate that sustain classes can't run bi-stat but over sustain on normal sustain foods. That bothers me as well.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gotta love all the people saying 'It doesn't matter just run X food if you pick Y race' you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence. If the racial matters so much that I need to run a different consumable if I'm not playing a Magicka Breton THEN YES THEY MATTER.

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, the fact this is an Elder Scrolls game but so utterly limited because of just how powerful/important racials are SUCKS. The fact I can only play an Altmer or Breton as a MAGICKA character or otherwise actively gimp myself is so stupid. Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter? Why not give everyone the freedom to play any class/attribute with any race they want?

And it's not just that you can say 'Well if you go Altmer you just won't be the best stamina nightblade' No no no, this isn't about being 'BEST' you'll be USELESS, you'll have ZERO bonuses compared to others that scale up.

You already changed the racials once why not just freaking end this? And Khajit being the only ones with sneak bonus, honestly URGH

Because ESO is a TES universe game and TES games are openworld RPG'S and where you come from is important to your character, it helps define your build, it adds depth. If racials were just "flavor and didn't matter" what would be the point?

I'm not really for just pushing lore aside and dumbing down the game. If you want dumbed down go play WoW or something, everyone has the same builds there pretty much.

Gotta love this in particular, you imply there is no point if the racials were just for for 'flabour and didn't matter' then literally go on to say you don't want lore pushed aside. Since when the hell exactly has lore=gameplay in this game before? Have you even played the game lately? The classes are all very lore accurate are they? Get out.

Well actually I was just quoting you there, you asked "Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter"? And I was explaining why we need them. As a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) notice the RPG part, role playing game. ROLE PLAYING. Racial traits add a level of depth to the role playing element.

Pretty clear and simple really. For example, in the lore, dunmer have always had a natural resistance to fire. It makes perfect sense they get this in eso. Redguard have always been amazing sword fighters and warriors, so it makes sense they have good stamina. etc etc.

Remove racials and just make everyone the same and you take something away from the game. So no. You "get out"

The current racials don’t add depth they add restrictions. And if this was an rpg the racials would reflect the games lore, for many races they do not.

It's an MMORPG. The MMO part means there needs to be balance. Because people are playing with other people. So they can't be full out traits like the single player games, but it does go with the general theme of their lore racial traits. I already gave examples which you seem to have ignored when you implied the racials don't reflect the lore. They do, just not as full in your face as say, skyrim for example where dunmer have an ancestral ghost to fight with them in combat as well. Would be nice, but would also be an unfair advantage. But they do have the fire passives as i mentioned, which is lore friendly.

Orcs, good fighters, strong, they have good stamina, so their racials reflect that, bretons are known for good magic resistance, and it shows in eso, nords can deal with the cold, their racial reflects that. I could go on for all the races. So you are basically wrong.

Racials are only as important as you make them. I have a Nord ice mage(warden) that melts in pvp and pulls enough DPS in pve to not be ineffective in endgame content

Neoealth wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gotta love all the people saying 'It doesn't matter just run X food if you pick Y race' you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence. If the racial matters so much that I need to run a different consumable if I'm not playing a Magicka Breton THEN YES THEY MATTER.

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, the fact this is an Elder Scrolls game but so utterly limited because of just how powerful/important racials are SUCKS. The fact I can only play an Altmer or Breton as a MAGICKA character or otherwise actively gimp myself is so stupid. Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter? Why not give everyone the freedom to play any class/attribute with any race they want?

And it's not just that you can say 'Well if you go Altmer you just won't be the best stamina nightblade' No no no, this isn't about being 'BEST' you'll be USELESS, you'll have ZERO bonuses compared to others that scale up.

You already changed the racials once why not just freaking end this? And Khajit being the only ones with sneak bonus, honestly URGH

Because ESO is a TES universe game and TES games are openworld RPG'S and where you come from is important to your character, it helps define your build, it adds depth. If racials were just "flavor and didn't matter" what would be the point?

I'm not really for just pushing lore aside and dumbing down the game. If you want dumbed down go play WoW or something, everyone has the same builds there pretty much.

Gotta love this in particular, you imply there is no point if the racials were just for for 'flabour and didn't matter' then literally go on to say you don't want lore pushed aside. Since when the hell exactly has lore=gameplay in this game before? Have you even played the game lately? The classes are all very lore accurate are they? Get out.

Well actually I was just quoting you there, you asked "Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter"? And I was explaining why we need them. As a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) notice the RPG part, role playing game. ROLE PLAYING. Racial traits add a level of depth to the role playing element.

Pretty clear and simple really. For example, in the lore, dunmer have always had a natural resistance to fire. It makes perfect sense they get this in eso. Redguard have always been amazing sword fighters and warriors, so it makes sense they have good stamina. etc etc.

Remove racials and just make everyone the same and you take something away from the game. So no. You "get out"

The current racials don’t add depth they add restrictions. And if this was an rpg the racials would reflect the games lore, for many races they do not.

It's an MMORPG. The MMO part means there needs to be balance. Because people are playing with other people. So they can't be full out traits like the single player games, but it does go with the general theme of their lore racial traits. I already gave examples which you seem to have ignored when you implied the racials don't reflect the lore. They do, just not as full in your face as say, skyrim for example where dunmer have an ancestral ghost to fight with them in combat as well. Would be nice, but would also be an unfair advantage. But they do have the fire passives as i mentioned, which is lore friendly.

Orcs, good fighters, strong, they have good stamina, so their racials reflect that, bretons are known for good magic resistance, and it shows in eso, nords can deal with the cold, their racial reflects that. I could go on for all the races. So you are basically wrong.

Oh boy. I hope you are sitting down.

Imperials are not supposed to have a better stealth passive than wood elves, dark elves, or argonians.

Argonians are supposed to be poison resistant not disease.

Wood elves should have the disease resistance trait.

Orcs traditionally wear heavy armor and use shields, this game encourages them to wear medium and dps. (Also they are supposed to be good at melee, so why are they better at bows then wood elves?)

Nords are supposed to be like bezerker Vikings, so why are they encouraged to be tanks?

High elves are not supposed to great mages, so they get a buff to offspec regeneration? What?

And this is all off the top of my head as I am at work. If ZOS can’t do the racials correctly don’t have dps related racials hard wired in.

ImSoPro wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Gotta love all the people saying 'It doesn't matter just run X food if you pick Y race' you literally contradict yourself in the same sentence. If the racial matters so much that I need to run a different consumable if I'm not playing a Magicka Breton THEN YES THEY MATTER.

Neoealth wrote: »

leokafilyeb17_ESO wrote: »

Seriously though, the fact this is an Elder Scrolls game but so utterly limited because of just how powerful/important racials are SUCKS. The fact I can only play an Altmer or Breton as a MAGICKA character or otherwise actively gimp myself is so stupid. Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter? Why not give everyone the freedom to play any class/attribute with any race they want?

And it's not just that you can say 'Well if you go Altmer you just won't be the best stamina nightblade' No no no, this isn't about being 'BEST' you'll be USELESS, you'll have ZERO bonuses compared to others that scale up.

You already changed the racials once why not just freaking end this? And Khajit being the only ones with sneak bonus, honestly URGH

Because ESO is a TES universe game and TES games are openworld RPG'S and where you come from is important to your character, it helps define your build, it adds depth. If racials were just "flavor and didn't matter" what would be the point?

I'm not really for just pushing lore aside and dumbing down the game. If you want dumbed down go play WoW or something, everyone has the same builds there pretty much.

Gotta love this in particular, you imply there is no point if the racials were just for for 'flabour and didn't matter' then literally go on to say you don't want lore pushed aside. Since when the hell exactly has lore=gameplay in this game before? Have you even played the game lately? The classes are all very lore accurate are they? Get out.

Well actually I was just quoting you there, you asked "Why can't the racials just be flavour stuff that don't matter"? And I was explaining why we need them. As a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) notice the RPG part, role playing game. ROLE PLAYING. Racial traits add a level of depth to the role playing element.

Pretty clear and simple really. For example, in the lore, dunmer have always had a natural resistance to fire. It makes perfect sense they get this in eso. Redguard have always been amazing sword fighters and warriors, so it makes sense they have good stamina. etc etc.

Remove racials and just make everyone the same and you take something away from the game. So no. You "get out"

The current racials don’t add depth they add restrictions. And if this was an rpg the racials would reflect the games lore, for many races they do not.

It's an MMORPG. The MMO part means there needs to be balance. Because people are playing with other people. So they can't be full out traits like the single player games, but it does go with the general theme of their lore racial traits. I already gave examples which you seem to have ignored when you implied the racials don't reflect the lore. They do, just not as full in your face as say, skyrim for example where dunmer have an ancestral ghost to fight with them in combat as well. Would be nice, but would also be an unfair advantage. But they do have the fire passives as i mentioned, which is lore friendly.

Orcs, good fighters, strong, they have good stamina, so their racials reflect that, bretons are known for good magic resistance, and it shows in eso, nords can deal with the cold, their racial reflects that. I could go on for all the races. So you are basically wrong.

Oh boy. I hope you are sitting down.

Imperials are not supposed to have a better stealth passive than wood elves, dark elves, or argonians.

Argonians are supposed to be poison resistant not disease.

Wood elves should have the disease resistance trait.

Orcs traditionally wear heavy armor and use shields, this game encourages them to wear medium and dps. (Also they are supposed to be good at melee, so why are they better at bows then wood elves?)

Nords are supposed to be like bezerker Vikings, so why are they encouraged to be tanks?

High elves are not supposed to great mages, so they get a buff to offspec regeneration? What?

And this is all off the top of my head as I am at work. If ZOS can’t do the racials correctly don’t have dps related racials hard wired in.

Well Argonians are immune/resistant to that Knahaten flu so they should probably be resistant to both. They come from a filthy swamp land. Also Nords are supposed to be Vikings in general. Not any specific type but regardless, Vikings historically are definitely known to be fierce and beastlike in combat so tanking definitely makes sense there. The High Elf and Imperial passives are kind of dumb though so you’re right there. Imperials are just a bland race though 🤷🏾‍♂️

Argonians should be resistant to both, but if you can only choose one you might as well choose the one the game itself highlights.



Going back to Skyrim, nords highest starting skill was in 2-handed weapons and had no bonus to heavy armor, but did have a bonus to light (which in eso translates to leather armor).

While orcs highest was in heavy armor with a minor in block, 2 handed and one handed weapons. This makes sense with their background of smithing, they use what they make (or rather they got good in smithing because they prefer heavy armor and melee weapons). In ESO these two racials (Nords and Orcs) might as well be mostly flipped. It would fit the lore better.

And don't get me started on the wood Elf racials and lore. First they drink fermented blood, that is what the have for alcohol. You can't tell me that is not swimming with diseases. Secondly there is a whole quest chain where you learn about how some wood elves POISONED THEMSLEVES so that when a rival wood elf clan won and canabalized them, the rival clan would die of POISON. That quest chain alone should block giving wood elves a poison resistance racial.

Also;

Problem with the current racial passives is that everyone has that is an absolute joke.This is of course what happens when you try the swiss army knife approach or refuse balance pve and pvp separately.Not really too many choices for a " pure" dps race any more. Wheeler watered that down too much.Look at what happened to Altmer. Such a disgrace.

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

Since when are racials that important it's like the post before me said around 1-2% difference.

I have 8 argonians dd/heal/tank and still did most content +hm with them.

So that is utter nonesense

He is right.

I'm not taking an Imperial to do a Magicka based character
I'm not taking a wood elf to be a Magicka based character
I'm not taking a Breton or Altmer to be a stamina based character

To do any of the above would just be Stupid. It's not a question of dps. It's a question of sustain and dps and overall effectiveness.

You do Not select a race, whose passives do Not benefit the overall character At All. To do so, IMHO, is just plain stupid. No different than playing cards with only 45 cards in the deck. You do Not Intentionally Gimp the character by selecting a race that you will Not use any of the passives.

IMHO

Vlad9425 wrote: »

I like them. They make every race unique and I don’t care if I’m being gimped if I don’t pick the most OP race for what I’m doing. So far I’ve been able to complete most of the end game content as a wood elf nightblade.

Oh well then case closed. Nevermind everyone! Shut the thread down! This one person doesn't care being gimped and likes it! My apologies.

Race does not matter as much as you're claiming it to be.

Here's Raid Buffed DPS comparisons for some of the highest DPS players back when the racial rework was happening earlier this year.

Magicka Nightblade:



Altmer (Highest) - 60,383.8
No Racial (Lowest) - 58,399.75

Difference: 1,984.05 Less DPS on Average

Magicka Dragonknight



Altmer (Highest) - 58,115.45
No Racial (Lowest) - 55,684.45

Difference: 2,431 Less DPS on Average

Stamina Nightblade



Orc (Highest) - 61,695.55
No Racial (Lowest) - 59,287.85

Difference: 2,407.7 Less DPS on Average

Stamina Dragonknight



Orc (Highest) - 60,134.95
No Racial (Lowest) - 56,003.25

Difference: 4,131.7 Less DPS on Average

Total Average: 2,739 Less DPS on Average between Meta Race and No Racial Race

That's an average of less than 5% difference if you choose a meta race or the worst possible race, I don't think that qualifies as making an Altmer Stamina Nightblade or an Orc Magicka Sorcerer as "useless". Especially when considering that this is at the highest levels of DPS, so if you:

-Don't do that much DPS
-Aren't in a fully optimized raid
-You're not doing trials
-You're not the worst possible race, just not the best one (E.G., Argonian instead of Altmer, Argonian still gets some magicka DPS benefits)

Then that difference becomes even less, potentially significantly so, to the point that on a run-by-run scenario, two equally skilled players of the same class/spec, 1 of the meta race and 1 of the worst race, the worse race could actually end up doing better than the meta race because of crit luck. If you are better at DPS than the other player then obviously you'll always do better than them regardless of race.

Then throw in the fact that if you're particularly skilled at DPS, and you'll end up mopping the floor in DPS races with 99% of Altmer Magicka DPS that you come across even when you're an Orc - which may even make it feel better for you because then you have the bragging rights to say "I'm the worst race for Magicka/Stamina and I still do more DPS", whether out loud or just in your mind lol.

Then of course, DPS is isn't the only thing to think about in the game, there's healing, tanking, PvP, all of which are less quantifiable to compare but in the same vein, even less dependant on race, because your build could objectively benefit more from a usually non-meta race than it could from a meta-race in those scenarios. (E.G. You use ultimates a lot so the Nord benefit helps you more in PvP than being an Altmer glass cannon, despite still being magicka-based)

So basically in the end, if you're going for Vet trial leaderboard scores then yeah, your race matters - if every DPS in a trial were the worst possible race then there would be a significant difference between a trial of meta-races, but if you're doing literally anything else, then the difference is negligible.