Do you want to see the balance team run vet trials on the PTS?

abigfishy · July 2019

Yes

I am sure the devs do play the game and want it to be good, but I want to see how they cope with a single orb, weak Healing Springs and the huge nerfs to AOE DPS.

CleymenZero · July 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Given that @ZOS_BrianWheeler says that his balance team has a "vision" for the game, I wanted to see that vision in action.

Who else would like to see the balance team at ZOS run vSS, vCR, vAS, and vHoF on the PTS? Show us how great your vision is guys! I want to see how much fun you'll be having. I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun.

I'd also love to see all the classes represented on your team. Some DK healers, some NB tanks, some magicka warden DDs. Show us how great this balance patch is at creating class parity!

Its wtv... The patch is not as bad as everyone thinks...

darthgummibear_ESO · July 2019

Yes

When it becomes patently obvious that they are designing by metrics and spreadsheets instead of what it actually feels like to play the game, yes...I'd love to see them try.

srfrogg23 · July 2019

No

rotaugen454 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I would probably be as lost as them. "They seem to be doing ok and they're having fun. Only a few deaths here and there but no major roadblocks. I don't know why people wanted to see this so much. /shrug"

Meanwhile, min/maxers and parsers are losing their minds, "OMG DIDN'T YOU GUYS SEE THE MAG DK DID 5% LESS DPS THAN THE MAGBLADE??!?! WHY AREN'T YOU FIXING THIS??! COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE THAT THE BALANCE TEAM WON'T FIX THEIR GAME!!!!"

The point people are making is that they wouldn’t clear it, not that they do 5% less DPS. They would be a better indicator of the majority of the player base, as opposed to elite trial guilds that have been working together for years.

They might clear it. They might not. That content wasn't really meant to be completed on the first try, or the second...or, the tenth. It's a throwback to progression raiding. Obnoxiously challenging, long-term content meant to bring a sense of satisfaction that cannot be found in other types of content.

So, even if they didn't clear it, they will probably still say "working as intended" and y'all will still be as dissatisfied as ever. That content is intended for coordinated trial guilds who have been practicing and working together for a long time. It's not really meant for randos to just jump into and clear in an evening.

Er go, I am not interested in watching them run that content. I'd rather just play.

Eraldus · July 2019

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

Not really, as I said in another thread I don't think it would give a clear indication of the systems.

I would rather see player trials guilds of various levels play it and see if they can still clear the content and where the issues are. They're the ones with hundreds of hours of gameplay invested into trials to gain the knowledge and skill not the devs.

Asking devs to play content is just a gotcha so people can go "well devs can't do it, so it's bad game design"

If they can't play the game based on their own balancing decisions, then it's bad game design.

Eraldus · July 2019

Yes

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

no, they dont have to cuz they know what they are doing...people need to stop being little !#$%es and adapt...eso is finally taking a step towards the right direction regarding tanks and healers since this is the only mmo I ever played who made tanks and healers the dps buff !#$%^es with no actual reason to ever use anything defensive at all...finally that its going to change.

Yeah, and now it's becoming just like every single generic MMO out there... GREAT CHANGES INDEED!

Screw the freedom of playing as you want in a series that's known for giving the players that freedom, simply because PVP whiners not being able learn to play and get kills, so they want certain playstyles nerfed, so that they can standarlize the whole game into a generic MMO crap and finally be able to be "good" at the game, because now everything is handled to them.

Tommy_The_Gun · July 2019

Yes

It will be THE show of the Century...

SidraWillowsky · July 2019

No

....there's actually a balance team in this game? LOLOLOLOL

But no, what I WANT to see is them actually paying attention to the mid-tier players. You know, the ones who aren't Liko et al., who AREN'T hitting 100k on the raid dummy, AREN'T LA weaving perfectly, AREN'T in fully optimized vet trial groups. The ones who aren't at the tippy top in terms of DPS who would be able to make ANYTHING work because they're just THAT damn good.

How about they worry about the other 80-90% of the player base who are trying to do well (I'm not talking about the RPers or filthy casuals; I'm referring to a subset of players who DO want to hit high DPS numbers and run vet content) but just not the Alcasts and Likos of the world- maybe they're in vet trial progression groups or groups that aren't going to have flawlessly coordinated War Horns, or don't LA weave perfectly all the time, or don't have fully optimized gear, whatever, the point is that they still want to do the best that they can but aren't THE best. THESE people are going to be hit the hardest by these changes. And yet... it seems like the "balance" team makes decisions based on the fact that the top players/guilds can make things work and be ok. But the point is that THEY'LL ALWAYS BE OK. It's the rest who are going to be struggling, and the rest are the majority.

I just want them to actually see and absorb the fact that these changes are just going to widen the gap between the very best players and everyone else and that everyone else is going to be negatively affected in a much greater fashion.

AFTER that yeah, I'd love to see them try to get through vet trials on the PTS :P

Hallothiel · July 2019

Yes

Just for [snip] & giggles.

But actually @SidraWillowsky I agree with you about NOT listening to the very small elite who can do vet hm trials with ease, but to those who try to, not with always bis gear or perfect rotations, but who work together to get it done.

Think there is quite a number of players in this category. May not be the best, but do their best. Not chasing leaderboards but quite like the challenge.

Want to see how its affects this type of player.

[edited for circumventing profanity filter]

Rake · July 2019

Yes

Would be fun to watch

yodased · July 2019

No

I want them to play it as much as I want you to code it.

DjMuscleboy02 · July 2019

Yes

What if the devs are all just the members of Hodor, don't be fooled by the system

ezio45 · July 2019

Yes

Huyen wrote: »

To the OP: so you want a group of people to be coordinated in a vet trial, where guilds take weeks, if not months to be adjusted to each other just this once? I see your point but what you are asking is not doable. Asking for a fail for the sake of the fail is insane.

they designed it. they should know all the mechanics and how to execute them. Dont have to be god tier. Just average player

ezio45 · July 2019

Yes

srfrogg23 wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I would probably be as lost as them. "They seem to be doing ok and they're having fun. Only a few deaths here and there but no major roadblocks. I don't know why people wanted to see this so much. /shrug"

Meanwhile, min/maxers and parsers are losing their minds, "OMG DIDN'T YOU GUYS SEE THE MAG DK DID 5% LESS DPS THAN THE MAGBLADE??!?! WHY AREN'T YOU FIXING THIS??! COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE THAT THE BALANCE TEAM WON'T FIX THEIR GAME!!!!"

The point people are making is that they wouldn’t clear it, not that they do 5% less DPS. They would be a better indicator of the majority of the player base, as opposed to elite trial guilds that have been working together for years.

They might clear it. They might not. That content wasn't really meant to be completed on the first try, or the second...or, the tenth. It's a throwback to progression raiding. Obnoxiously challenging, long-term content meant to bring a sense of satisfaction that cannot be found in other types of content.

So, even if they didn't clear it, they will probably still say "working as intended" and y'all will still be as dissatisfied as ever. That content is intended for coordinated trial guilds who have been practicing and working together for a long time. It's not really meant for randos to just jump into and clear in an evening.

Er go, I am not interested in watching them run that content. I'd rather just play.

doesnt have to be vhof or vmol, or vcr +3.

Lets just see them do vcr +0 With things in there current state. Oh and they should have to it with a mixed group of classes. Lets see them a group with magbade or magden or magcro or nonpet magsorc. If all those classes are within a competitive range they should be able to do that.

RedTalon · July 2019

Yes

Yes devs should test their own stuff instead of relaying solo on play testing should be both

SirLeeMinion · July 2019

No

No. It would just be painful to watch and confirm what we already suspect: 1) These changes were made for some reason other than enjoyable game play. 2) Their vision for the game is different from that of the average mid-tier player. 3) The people who made the changes will not succeed in the difficult content they are putting in front of their player base.

Though a bit off-topic, it rather reminds me of the time CCP games hosted an event for players in EVE online. It pulled a bunch of unsuspecting (primarily PvE) players into PvP space where they got slaughtered by the PvPers waiting in ambush. The icing on the cake was the video of the devs laughing as the PvE players took huge real money losses because their ships were permanently destroyed. https://www.gameskinny.com/euksz/eve-online-live-event-bleating-of-the-lambs

Historically, ZOS does not do much alteration of patch changes once the initial notes are released, and like the CCP devs, they have mocked, rather than listened to, their player base as they react to the sucker punch: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6193929#Comment_6193929

P.S. CCP games was sold this past year and that event was in 2013, so I guess you can ignore your player base for some time before they go away.

yRaven · July 2019

Yes

I want to see they run vMoL with this new 25K DPS meta

Fivefivesix · July 2019

Yes

Yep lets see it and they should also have to deal with terrible rng just like we do. So they should run it 15 - 20 times

Turelus · July 2019

No

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Not really, as I said in another thread I don't think it would give a clear indication of the systems.

I would rather see player trials guilds of various levels play it and see if they can still clear the content and where the issues are. They're the ones with hundreds of hours of gameplay invested into trials to gain the knowledge and skill not the devs.

Asking devs to play content is just a gotcha so people can go "well devs can't do it, so it's bad game design"

I'd like to see the Dev Run 2019 for the fun of it, but this quote is spot on. This is supposed to be the purpose of the PTS: real players run the same trials again and give feedback about how the respective changes affect them. But the problem with the PTS.....well that's a different thread.

Agreed. I would enjoy watching it for entertainment purposes, but we all know that's not why people are asking for this.

Turelus · July 2019

No

Eraldus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Not really, as I said in another thread I don't think it would give a clear indication of the systems.

I would rather see player trials guilds of various levels play it and see if they can still clear the content and where the issues are. They're the ones with hundreds of hours of gameplay invested into trials to gain the knowledge and skill not the devs.

Asking devs to play content is just a gotcha so people can go "well devs can't do it, so it's bad game design"

If they can't play the game based on their own balancing decisions, then it's bad game design.

They might be able to play it, but at what level.

People want HODOR level skill and completion from them without giving them the years of invested practice, team building and such.

As I said, people want it as they know they'll fail and can say "gotcha, it's a bad change as you can't do it" seeing if actually skilled players can do it would be a far better test of the changes.

Ashtaris · July 2019

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

Not really, as I said in another thread I don't think it would give a clear indication of the systems.

I would rather see player trials guilds of various levels play it and see if they can still clear the content and where the issues are. They're the ones with hundreds of hours of gameplay invested into trials to gain the knowledge and skill not the devs.

Asking devs to play content is just a gotcha so people can go "well devs can't do it, so it's bad game design"

The problem is by the time the devs get the feedback from the trial guilds on a normal PTS cycle, it will probably be too late and the nerfs will be set in stone. Too bad, so sad. What I feel ZOS should do is coordinated testing among the trial guilds of various skill levels a week before the normal PTS cycle, make adjustments based on the feedback of those tests AND normal playing, plus extend the PTS cycle a week or two if needed to make sure they get it right.

As it stands right now, I’m afraid they are going to shove this patch down our throats, like it or not.

SirAndy · July 2019

Yes

Actually, i want each of them to make a video of them soloing, let's say Darkshade Caverns I or City of Ash I on vet on the PTS.

No need for hard mode, i'm more interested to see their use of shields/healing/aoe/dot/sustain during a solo dungeon run.

I think that would be much more telling ...

Moloch1514 · July 2019

Yes

We just want the devs to balance game to mid-tier players, not the elites like Hodor. Dev team needs to stop watching Twitch and over-reacting to the few groups that will always crush their new content. Remember the rest of us who get knocked down everytime they do a patch.

Vlad9425 · July 2019

Yes

I have a better idea. Have them go into Cyrodiil at prime time and have them experience how shockingly bad and unplayable the game really is.

MehrunesFlagon · July 2019

Yes

If any of you remember seeing a video of Fengrush being carried in vMOL. I could actually imagine Wheeler's performance to be even more hilarious regardless of the trial.

HelixUnited · July 2019

Yes

yes but one healer at least has to NOT be a templar

Fortunatto · July 2019

Yes

With non-templar healers and magicka dps
on hardmode as well

idk · July 2019

This seems rather pointless and I’ll thought.

For this to be a worthwhile thought the balance team would have to be able to clear those same trials on live and do pretty good. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t fare very well in at least some of those trials.

Its well knows they don’t play their game to the higher lvls.

SassiestAssassin · July 2019

Yes

Yes, because I want proof that some devs actually PLAY PvE content. With the current nerfs, I’m not sure they do.

zaria · July 2019

Yes

Mitrenga wrote: »

Meanwhile the balance team.

We stick to PvDoor as its already hard enough