Please Remain Composed Until Full Patch Release

Burgererer · July 2019

First off, this post is going to be entirely subjective, as all the skills I plan to discuss are solely ones I use. However, I'm going to try to steer the conversation in a direction that can apply to everyone who's aware of the most recent PTS notes. Next, I main a stamden that rocks a bow on both bars (crazy, I know). Coming off maining a stamplar tank for the first 1.5 years or so of playing is quite the change, but glad I can say I pull +25k dps in vet dungeons as a filthy casual, and rarely die.

With that said, if all the listed changes go into effect as they are right now, I'll be down 2k dps or so, which is fine (I'm still wearing all purples, except all green jewelry). I use caltrops, so I plan to weigh in mathematically before morphing to the go-to of razor, as sub assault gives me all the major fracture I need. Just like caltrops, volley will be cheaper in stam costs, but reduced overall damage. Heck, I might even consider barrage this time around for the increased radius. Poison injection will still probably be my best choice, as the nerf isn't too bad IMO.

As for my other bar (I use bull netch and green lotus on the first, and sub assault, cutting dive, bombard and bird of prey on the second, all untouched by patch

), only vigor is affected. And with it's changes on resolving vigor, the math says I'll heal more for a reduced cost.

So overall, my sustain and survival chances are getting buffed, but damage is getting nerfed by a little. Really, I think I can make up for the damage nerf through spamming dive and sub assault more, due to the reduced costs of other skills. My honest thoughts are that ZoS might be regretful of the changes Morrowind brought with forced animation canceling through weaving lights. I could be wrong about this. I could be wrong about everything I've written. However, this could also give people a chance to change their builds a little, adapt, and triumph, considering all the changes go through. And about the orbs, well I'm not a healer. So please discuss this somewhere else.

This wasn't meant to be a smug brag post, nor a fanboy culling. My thoughts are the patch isn't even dropped yet, and if it does, we can voice our complaints then. Try to think of the positives, and ways to adapt, rather than get further entrenched in how broken your +30k dps burst gank build is, before it actually is. I honestly look forward to any patch notes, it reminds me I play an ever-changing MMORPG that challenges me to think and devise creative ways to do better. Plus, there's always going to be nerfs and buffs, so don't be sad about these notes forever, if you are. And finally, no need to threaten to quit, because I doubt you will.

TL;DR Changes bring my build more sustain, survival chances, and slightly lower dps. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Sanguinor2 · July 2019

I´d rather we voice our concerns before the patch Drops, otherwise we´ll have to live with them for Minimum 3 months (assuming that Zos actually cares enough to review pts).

Eraldus · July 2019

Please stop

Zacuel · July 2019

GAME OVER MAN! GAME OVER!!

Burgererer · July 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

I´d rather we voice our concerns before the patch Drops, otherwise we´ll have to live with them for Minimum 3 months (assuming that Zos actually cares enough to review pts).

I agree. I shouldn't have said don't say anything now. Rather, don't be an overly dramatic cynic about it, like +75% of the community right now. Use facts and conceptual thinking, rather than fearful emotion to explain why you think a specific change is bad?

Halcyon_blue · July 2019

I couldn't agree more burgerer, very well said thank you.

Are there concerns, of course. And there are measured, fact based responses based on testing that can provide useful feedback for zos.

Histrionics, abuse and with us or against us ad hominem attacks simply crowd this out and leverage of the worst aspects of social media.

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2019

If you dont want to see the outcry from the playerbase, dont come to the very place that exists for the outcry. These threads should really be locked because they serve no purpose beyond telling others how they should handle themselves as if youre an authority on how people should spend their time on here. Its really just an opportunity to draw people in to argue with them.

Burgererer · July 2019

Never said I don't want to see outcry. But it's how the outcry is worded and what's fueling it. Thought should take precedent over emotion in these cases. And I'd like to think being constructive in your argument is less likely to get the thread locked, as we've seen towards less positive threads. You can be positive and critical at the same time, as it's all about one's outlook.

But I'm not telling anyone how to handle themselves, nor consider myself any type of authority over anyone, but don't complain when all the "Zo$ is trash" topic threads get closed; these don't do anything but sow discord between devs and players.

Getting back to the topic, does anyone care to share any pro's about their build, concerning the update? I just keep thinking about how much more I'll be able to spam single target skills, due to reduced AOE costs lol.

Firstmep · July 2019

Erm PTS is LITERALLY for testing and feedback.
Nuff said.

buttaface · July 2019

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

If you dont want to see the outcry from the playerbase, dont come to the very place that exists for the outcry. These threads should really be locked because they serve no purpose beyond telling others how they should handle themselves as if youre an authority on how people should spend their time on here. Its really just an opportunity to draw people in to argue with them.

^^

But am actually looking forward to an easy mode quad dot heavy attack spam build that does acceptable dps for mid level things without all the clicks. Some of the buffs look good, esp on underused mage guild and soul magic skills, but far more of the nerfs look way overdone, some head-scratching.

The "cataclysmic upheaval" approach this company engages in too frequently on what should be a polished game that gets minor tweaks instead of pendulum swings looks more and more like a purposeful sharp business practice time/gold/crown sink than the "conforming to some nebulous standards" lie they serve up over and over. They are calculating that more will keep playing and spend time/money to adapt than leave. It's probably a good bet on their part, but transparent. I subbed for 3 months just before this latest cataclysmic change to the game was disclosed. Would not have done so and moved on to more even-handed, better games had I known. Probably won't play through the full 3 months.

LadyNalcarya · July 2019

The whole point of pts is getting feedback, positive or negative.
So if someone cares about the game, they should voice their opinions and concerns. That's how it should be.

Pallio · July 2019

So basically, don't worry our RP guild will survive.

Varana · July 2019

You do realise that most of the outcry is about the healer's role which you conveniently ignored in your post?

ezio45 · July 2019

Burgererer wrote: »

First off, this post is going to be entirely subjective, as all the skills I plan to discuss are solely ones I use. However, I'm going to try to steer the conversation in a direction that can apply to everyone who's aware of the most recent PTS notes. Next, I main a stamden that rocks a bow on both bars (crazy, I know). Coming off maining a stamplar tank for the first 1.5 years or so of playing is quite the change, but glad I can say I pull +25k dps in vet dungeons as a filthy casual, and rarely die.

With that said, if all the listed changes go into effect as they are right now, I'll be down 2k dps or so, which is fine (I'm still wearing all purples, except all green jewelry). I use caltrops, so I plan to weigh in mathematically before morphing to the go-to of razor, as sub assault gives me all the major fracture I need. Just like caltrops, volley will be cheaper in stam costs, but reduced overall damage. Heck, I might even consider barrage this time around for the increased radius. Poison injection will still probably be my best choice, as the nerf isn't too bad IMO.

As for my other bar (I use bull netch and green lotus on the first, and sub assault, cutting dive, bombard and bird of prey on the second, all untouched by patch ), only vigor is affected. And with it's changes on resolving vigor, the math says I'll heal more for a reduced cost.

So overall, my sustain and survival chances are getting buffed, but damage is getting nerfed by a little. Really, I think I can make up for the damage nerf through spamming dive and sub assault more, due to the reduced costs of other skills. My honest thoughts are that ZoS might be regretful of the changes Morrowind brought with forced animation canceling through weaving lights. I could be wrong about this. I could be wrong about everything I've written. However, this could also give people a chance to change their builds a little, adapt, and triumph, considering all the changes go through. And about the orbs, well I'm not a healer. So please discuss this somewhere else.

This wasn't meant to be a smug brag post, nor a fanboy culling. My thoughts are the patch isn't even dropped yet, and if it does, we can voice our complaints then. Try to think of the positives, and ways to adapt, rather than get further entrenched in how broken your +30k dps burst gank build is, before it actually is. I honestly look forward to any patch notes, it reminds me I play an ever-changing MMORPG that challenges me to think and devise creative ways to do better. Plus, there's always going to be nerfs and buffs, so don't be sad about these notes forever, if you are. And finally, no need to threaten to quit, because I doubt you will.

TL;DR Changes bring my build more sustain, survival chances, and slightly lower dps. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Here is the problem. You yourself said you would have approximately 2k dps. Lets double that for adding in more sub assaults and dive, 4k (probably a generous estimation). Ok now double it again for you perfecting your rotation, 8k. Now lets double that for gold gear, 16k. You are still 9k short for what the nicest trials guilds want for the easiest trial.

Thats only in your situation. Other classes got screwed on sustain, survivability and damage that were under preforming stamden this patch. Alot of classes were under preforming stamden this patch. do you see the problem yet?

There are alot of classes, mostly mag, that cannot handle these changes and preform whats required of them.

Huyen · July 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

Burgererer wrote: »

First off, this post is going to be entirely subjective, as all the skills I plan to discuss are solely ones I use. However, I'm going to try to steer the conversation in a direction that can apply to everyone who's aware of the most recent PTS notes. Next, I main a stamden that rocks a bow on both bars (crazy, I know). Coming off maining a stamplar tank for the first 1.5 years or so of playing is quite the change, but glad I can say I pull +25k dps in vet dungeons as a filthy casual, and rarely die.

With that said, if all the listed changes go into effect as they are right now, I'll be down 2k dps or so, which is fine (I'm still wearing all purples, except all green jewelry). I use caltrops, so I plan to weigh in mathematically before morphing to the go-to of razor, as sub assault gives me all the major fracture I need. Just like caltrops, volley will be cheaper in stam costs, but reduced overall damage. Heck, I might even consider barrage this time around for the increased radius. Poison injection will still probably be my best choice, as the nerf isn't too bad IMO.

As for my other bar (I use bull netch and green lotus on the first, and sub assault, cutting dive, bombard and bird of prey on the second, all untouched by patch ), only vigor is affected. And with it's changes on resolving vigor, the math says I'll heal more for a reduced cost.

So overall, my sustain and survival chances are getting buffed, but damage is getting nerfed by a little. Really, I think I can make up for the damage nerf through spamming dive and sub assault more, due to the reduced costs of other skills. My honest thoughts are that ZoS might be regretful of the changes Morrowind brought with forced animation canceling through weaving lights. I could be wrong about this. I could be wrong about everything I've written. However, this could also give people a chance to change their builds a little, adapt, and triumph, considering all the changes go through. And about the orbs, well I'm not a healer. So please discuss this somewhere else.

This wasn't meant to be a smug brag post, nor a fanboy culling. My thoughts are the patch isn't even dropped yet, and if it does, we can voice our complaints then. Try to think of the positives, and ways to adapt, rather than get further entrenched in how broken your +30k dps burst gank build is, before it actually is. I honestly look forward to any patch notes, it reminds me I play an ever-changing MMORPG that challenges me to think and devise creative ways to do better. Plus, there's always going to be nerfs and buffs, so don't be sad about these notes forever, if you are. And finally, no need to threaten to quit, because I doubt you will.

TL;DR Changes bring my build more sustain, survival chances, and slightly lower dps. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Here is the problem. You yourself said you would have approximately 2k dps. Lets double that for adding in more sub assaults and dive, 4k (probably a generous estimation). Ok now double it again for you perfecting your rotation, 8k. Now lets double that for gold gear, 16k. You are still 9k short for what the nicest trials guilds want for the easiest trial.

Thats only in your situation. Other classes got screwed on sustain, survivability and damage that were under preforming stamden this patch. Alot of classes were under preforming stamden this patch. do you see the problem yet?

There are alot of classes, mostly mag, that cannot handle these changes and preform whats required of them.

Then those guilds have to accept that they need to follow tactics for a change instead of burning everything to the ground. Good riddance I say.

rotaugen454 · July 2019

I’m curious, how many of the people saying don’t panic have been running vet dungeons and trials, or even VMsA? I’m not in panic mode yet, but I still have to get on PTS and see how much it affects me in actual gameplay.

WuffyCerulei · July 2019

I’m gonna be letting Zos know how I feel about various changes after some testing, as that’s what the PTS is about.

zaria · July 2019

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

The whole point of pts is getting feedback, positive or negative.
So if someone cares about the game, they should voice their opinions and concerns. That's how it should be.

PTS is mostly an marketing tool and finding bugs

It might be some smaller adjustments in stuff like boss difficulty but only possible way to get them to modify combat changes is massive outcry.

ezio45 · July 2019

Huyen wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Burgererer wrote: »

First off, this post is going to be entirely subjective, as all the skills I plan to discuss are solely ones I use. However, I'm going to try to steer the conversation in a direction that can apply to everyone who's aware of the most recent PTS notes. Next, I main a stamden that rocks a bow on both bars (crazy, I know). Coming off maining a stamplar tank for the first 1.5 years or so of playing is quite the change, but glad I can say I pull +25k dps in vet dungeons as a filthy casual, and rarely die.

With that said, if all the listed changes go into effect as they are right now, I'll be down 2k dps or so, which is fine (I'm still wearing all purples, except all green jewelry). I use caltrops, so I plan to weigh in mathematically before morphing to the go-to of razor, as sub assault gives me all the major fracture I need. Just like caltrops, volley will be cheaper in stam costs, but reduced overall damage. Heck, I might even consider barrage this time around for the increased radius. Poison injection will still probably be my best choice, as the nerf isn't too bad IMO.

As for my other bar (I use bull netch and green lotus on the first, and sub assault, cutting dive, bombard and bird of prey on the second, all untouched by patch ), only vigor is affected. And with it's changes on resolving vigor, the math says I'll heal more for a reduced cost.

So overall, my sustain and survival chances are getting buffed, but damage is getting nerfed by a little. Really, I think I can make up for the damage nerf through spamming dive and sub assault more, due to the reduced costs of other skills. My honest thoughts are that ZoS might be regretful of the changes Morrowind brought with forced animation canceling through weaving lights. I could be wrong about this. I could be wrong about everything I've written. However, this could also give people a chance to change their builds a little, adapt, and triumph, considering all the changes go through. And about the orbs, well I'm not a healer. So please discuss this somewhere else.

This wasn't meant to be a smug brag post, nor a fanboy culling. My thoughts are the patch isn't even dropped yet, and if it does, we can voice our complaints then. Try to think of the positives, and ways to adapt, rather than get further entrenched in how broken your +30k dps burst gank build is, before it actually is. I honestly look forward to any patch notes, it reminds me I play an ever-changing MMORPG that challenges me to think and devise creative ways to do better. Plus, there's always going to be nerfs and buffs, so don't be sad about these notes forever, if you are. And finally, no need to threaten to quit, because I doubt you will.

TL;DR Changes bring my build more sustain, survival chances, and slightly lower dps. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Here is the problem. You yourself said you would have approximately 2k dps. Lets double that for adding in more sub assaults and dive, 4k (probably a generous estimation). Ok now double it again for you perfecting your rotation, 8k. Now lets double that for gold gear, 16k. You are still 9k short for what the nicest trials guilds want for the easiest trial.

Thats only in your situation. Other classes got screwed on sustain, survivability and damage that were under preforming stamden this patch. Alot of classes were under preforming stamden this patch. do you see the problem yet?

There are alot of classes, mostly mag, that cannot handle these changes and preform whats required of them.

Then those guilds have to accept that they need to follow tactics for a change instead of burning everything to the ground. Good riddance I say.

that is following mechanics, your not skipping them with 25k dps. 50k maybe.

regime211 · July 2019

Burgererer wrote: »

First off, this post is going to be entirely subjective, as all the skills I plan to discuss are solely ones I use. However, I'm going to try to steer the conversation in a direction that can apply to everyone who's aware of the most recent PTS notes. Next, I main a stamden that rocks a bow on both bars (crazy, I know). Coming off maining a stamplar tank for the first 1.5 years or so of playing is quite the change, but glad I can say I pull +25k dps in vet dungeons as a filthy casual, and rarely die.

With that said, if all the listed changes go into effect as they are right now, I'll be down 2k dps or so, which is fine (I'm still wearing all purples, except all green jewelry). I use caltrops, so I plan to weigh in mathematically before morphing to the go-to of razor, as sub assault gives me all the major fracture I need. Just like caltrops, volley will be cheaper in stam costs, but reduced overall damage. Heck, I might even consider barrage this time around for the increased radius. Poison injection will still probably be my best choice, as the nerf isn't too bad IMO.

As for my other bar (I use bull netch and green lotus on the first, and sub assault, cutting dive, bombard and bird of prey on the second, all untouched by patch ), only vigor is affected. And with it's changes on resolving vigor, the math says I'll heal more for a reduced cost.

So overall, my sustain and survival chances are getting buffed, but damage is getting nerfed by a little. Really, I think I can make up for the damage nerf through spamming dive and sub assault more, due to the reduced costs of other skills. My honest thoughts are that ZoS might be regretful of the changes Morrowind brought with forced animation canceling through weaving lights. I could be wrong about this. I could be wrong about everything I've written. However, this could also give people a chance to change their builds a little, adapt, and triumph, considering all the changes go through. And about the orbs, well I'm not a healer. So please discuss this somewhere else.

This wasn't meant to be a smug brag post, nor a fanboy culling. My thoughts are the patch isn't even dropped yet, and if it does, we can voice our complaints then. Try to think of the positives, and ways to adapt, rather than get further entrenched in how broken your +30k dps burst gank build is, before it actually is. I honestly look forward to any patch notes, it reminds me I play an ever-changing MMORPG that challenges me to think and devise creative ways to do better. Plus, there's always going to be nerfs and buffs, so don't be sad about these notes forever, if you are. And finally, no need to threaten to quit, because I doubt you will.

TL;DR Changes bring my build more sustain, survival chances, and slightly lower dps. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Ain't nobody reading that long ass paragraph.

Chadak · July 2019

ZOS gives us the actual patch notes

Fools: "Gosh , just wait and see"

ZOS puts it on the pts

Fools: "Gosh, just wait and see"

Waited. Saw. It's trash.

The end.

rfennell_ESO · July 2019

People want to make as big a sensationalist splash as they can to attempt to thwart change.

So "waiting" isn't something they intend on doing... classic narcissism at work, they think they can make vague threats and the old kicker line of "me and my many friends will quit" and stave off what they don't like (which is always a change to their meta choice).