I wish I had a dollar for every salty Patch Note tear.

PvE is bonkers right now. The power creep is crazy. 100k dps top players, 50-60 good players, 5-10 casual players is not sustainable. True, I think ZOS also have to make an effort to bring the lower-end of that scale up quite a bit, but the gap is simply too wide to be able to design content in any kind of sensible manner. In the mean time, tanks and healers are written off as worthless apart from trials and some vet DLC content.

Also, I support making everyone share the burden of group utility. There used to be a time when sorc dds used negates for group protection in trials, nightblades used veil, templars used novas, dragonknights used standards... Nowadays DDs only use damage ultimates exclusively, while tanks and healers are expected to coordinate as close to 100% aggressive warhorn uptime as possible. Every. Single. Fight. Sorcs can and do provide tanks with synergies through lightning splash, other DDs can slot abilities with synergies to make up for fewer orbs.

I'm curious and optimistic, and I get a sense that I didn't for a very long time, that the combat team finally have a plan and are following through.

Well my casual vet trial group just became a casualty of the changes. We cleared some (not nearly all) vet trials and was basically a “no pressure, just friends” group of around 16 players. We hung around in discord and just talked. I was a substitute dps for the main group.

We went from;

Bring any normal build you want;

(Then racial passive changes);

To restricting racial choices on some roles (my Bosmer lost their dps spot for example);

(Then proposed class changes);

To now, we are just giving up when these go live.

One issues is about the healers. I am not 100% sure what the healing changes exactly means, but 2 of our healers are sorcs and they are throwing in the towel.

So now a subset of them are researching what we are to do now. Looking at other games etc.
We are still doing trials until the patch, but it sort of feels like going to a favorite hangout spot that will be under new management soon.

At least it was fun until they started changing things against pve play.

NeroBad wrote: »

Let the money speak for it self. I can be wrong, I know my ingame friends are similar to me in many reagrds so it is a biased pool, but what you suggested with the PTS patch is so tryhard to please loud PvP groups, that is is laughable. PvP server Caps lowered in the past, rooms been closed (except holiday event which is now delayed because of Performance issues), yet Steam chart numbers increased in past months, altough it can be that BG is popular, but I cant imagine that PvP heavy players are close to casual and hardcore PvE players.

We (me and many of my friends) with this patch got a little detouched from the game, even without implementation. Many canceled subscription, and will miss out some goodies from Crown Store.

I think ZOS can't handle balancing, escpecially PvE and PvP together. If my hope comes true please consider some serious change to how you handle your PvE players, because this game had/ will have great potential in PvE area, and as I heared main PvPers aren't that willing to spend money on the game (they less likely to roleplay, they have less benefits from ESO+, they are more bitter to the game in general (for reasons))

I'm truly sorry PvP players, I know it is a speach against you, but the patches are mostly against PvE players so I will express it, and sadly I don't have a good solution for both group.

P.S: For "Git gud" commenters, I have to say that if ZOS will focus on elite players, then I will have a sad laugh that how little money will they earn from that big group.

Don't worry, the Company as a whole is feeling a lot of weight for their actions, with the introduction of new items in the crown store for people to buy and sub money. That weight you speak of isn't of people leaving the game in droves, but of a company banking money from virtual items to make your character look pretty and new mounts to ride around on.

LOL, PVPers are some of the biggest whales out there. This is readily apparent by the number of flashy apex and radiant apex mounts you see around Cyrodiil. I’m a PVPer, and I also border on whale territory at times. You should see my house! I’ve put more cash into that than my IRL house this past month.

More people PVP in this game than you think, so please don’t imply that we don’t deserve balance changes, or that we don’t support the game.

Rampeal wrote: »

What this boils down to is

"My Meta cookie cutter face roll build is ruined!!! You really expect us(Me and my friends) to follow mechanics and spend more than 5 mins on a boss fight!!! This is a outrage I will quit...for a whole day, but mark my words I will be super mad and flood your forums everyday!!!"

I love this

Agree. Look at all the patches for the last two or three years. The majority of changes are to appease the PVP player. Why? They live on this Forum more than anyone and want changes made. PVE players make up the majority of the players in this game.

Do I blame them? Nope. Why? Because they are correct in most of their posts.

Many PVE players have no idea about the threads in the forum. They log in one day and find their character(s) no longer work as they have the last 6 months to 3 years or whatever and then go investigate. When they discover what really happened they get peeved and blame PVPers (heck, I've done it!).

It isn't the PVPers fault. It is ZOS's fault. This game should be separated with two servers. One for PVP and one for PVE. Keep the changes separate.

I know this won't happen and I can say so many of those I played with over the last few years have left the game due to these drastic changes in the game. Many had their characters golded out and spent millions in gold on gear and of course the time invested to get there. So when it gets nerfed into the ground either by Abilities being nerfed or gear sets being nerfed they just quit and go somewhere else. All of these players were ESO plus. I'm sure they do not subscribe now that they are no longer playing ESO.

Nothing we say here is going to affect ZOS. I think all of the PTS changes will go Live with a few adjustments here and there but the core changes will hit us. And they will hit us hard.

I can live with most of the changes but sure don't like the loss of regen. There has to be a better way than just one Orb at a time. I guess Templars will rule the day with them dropping Shards all over the place for regen. Oh, until ZOS goes...hmmm....let's nerf Shards too!

Good luck all!

Rampeal wrote: »

What this boils down to is

"My Meta cookie cutter face roll build is ruined!!! You really expect us(Me and my friends) to follow mechanics and spend more than 5 mins on a boss fight!!! This is a outrage I will quit...for a whole day, but mark my words I will be super mad and flood your forums everyday!!!"

Thats not really the issue. The issue is that ZOS has made multiple changes in recent patches, then changed things back, only to change them again. Take sorcs, as just one example. Buff, nerf, buff, nerf, all in the past couple of patches. And it’s really all due to pvpers crying about sorcs being overpowered, underpowered, overpowered, etc etc etc. If major changes were implemented maybe once a year it wouldnt be as big an issue, but every couple of months?

Kel wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

altough it can be that BG is popular, but I cant imagine that PvP heavy players are close to casual and hardcore PvE players.

PvE players run trials, what, once a week?

A dedicated PvP player is doing PvP in 90% of thier playtime. All day, every day.

You're right, it's not close. A PvP player spends far more of thier time doing the element of the game they enjoy.

Once a week? try 1 - 5 times a day

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

But the greatest problem is that racist skeleton polymorph!

#skeletonsarepeopletoo

daemonios wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Well my casual vet trial group just became a casualty of the changes. We cleared some (not nearly all) vet trials and was basically a “no pressure, just friends” group of around 16 players. We hung around in discord and just talked. I was a substitute dps for the main group.

We went from;

Bring any normal build you want;

(Then racial passive changes);

To restricting racial choices on some roles (my Bosmer lost their dps spot for example);

(Then proposed class changes);

To now, we are just giving up when these go live.

One issues is about the healers. I am not 100% sure what the healing changes exactly means, but 2 of our healers are sorcs and they are throwing in the towel.

So now a subset of them are researching what we are to do now. Looking at other games etc.
We are still doing trials until the patch, but it sort of feels like going to a favorite hangout spot that will be under new management soon.

At least it was fun until they started changing things against pve play.

Your casual guild is off their rockers if they have race restrictions. That matters exactly zero unless possibly if you're going for leaderboards, but then that would make you a pretty non-casual guild, wouldn't it?

This, dps demands is one thing if you need some standard and yes its favor some races and more so classes than other but as group is causal this should be below 40K dps and doable with an Bosmer magwarden.
And yes its an idiotic setup unless you are an healer, who fit well with the Bosmer even if not optimal.

One guild I'm in has three trials tires, normal everything is go but you need relevant skills lines as tank or healer.
Vet: dps around 25K recommended but not enforced, done most trials in normal on role, healer and tank has relevant gear.
Elite: All relevant trials in vet on role, 38K something dps, healer and tanks need multiple set options

daemonios wrote: »

PvE is bonkers right now. The power creep is crazy. 100k dps top players, 50-60 good players, 5-10 casual players is not sustainable. True, I think ZOS also have to make an effort to bring the lower-end of that scale up quite a bit, but the gap is simply too wide to be able to design content in any kind of sensible manner. In the mean time, tanks and healers are written off as worthless apart from trials and some vet DLC content.

Also, I support making everyone share the burden of group utility. There used to be a time when sorc dds used negates for group protection in trials, nightblades used veil, templars used novas, dragonknights used standards... Nowadays DDs only use damage ultimates exclusively, while tanks and healers are expected to coordinate as close to 100% aggressive warhorn uptime as possible. Every. Single. Fight. Sorcs can and do provide tanks with synergies through lightning splash, other DDs can slot abilities with synergies to make up for fewer orbs.

I'm curious and optimistic, and I get a sense that I didn't for a very long time, that the combat team finally have a plan and are following through.

Dps only using damage ults is how it should be.Are you going to tell me to backbar a resto staff next?