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Let's talk about the healing changes...
-
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
People do tell others what to wear/do this and that. Trust me. They do it all the time.
No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do to maximize their Damage for example. If people don't want to wear that tho, they don't have to. Lol.
This makes no sense to me.
What I said in my post is people do tell others what to wear/do this and that.
Then you respond by saying "No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do...."
You are basically just repeating what I said and then act as if you are somehow disproving what I said.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:12PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.7 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
People do tell others what to wear/do this and that. Trust me. They do it all the time.
No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do to maximize their Damage for example. If people don't want to wear that tho, they don't have to. Lol.
This makes no sense.
What I said in my post is people do tell others what to wear/do this and that.
Then you respond by saying "No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do...."
You are basically just repeating what I said.
Of course it makes sense.
You said people tell others what to do/wear. I said, people mainly(like 99,99%) tell others what they could wear or should if they want to make the best out of XY. They are not demanding them to do/wear something, but rather suggesting.;-)1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."
Please just read some comments made towards me after I said I like the changes and think they’re good. There you can see the bullying aspect (not that I care but that’s exactly what happened).PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
RogueShark✭✭✭✭✭
✭These changes will just enforce more of a meta. Templar/warden or bust. Gutting orbs and every resto ability besides cbp = lol at all the classes who lack class heals/buffs/utilities for the group.
Removing core healing mechanics with zero compensation for "off-meta" healers will just make them worse off.PC NA
Will heal DPS for memes.8 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."
Please just read some comments made towards me after I said I like the changes and think they’re good. There you can see the bullying aspect (not that I care but that’s exactly what happened).
I read them all and do not consider that bullying. I think you are acting a bit too sensitive. :-)4 -
BennyButton✭✭✭✭
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."
Please just read some comments made towards me after I said I like the changes and think they’re good. There you can see the bullying aspect (not that I care but that’s exactly what happened).
This idea that onone bullies people for using builds they don't approve of is preposterous.
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.
I have no problems playing with people who want to be "the meta". So long as players get the job done - I got no problems with their builds whether it's the supposed "meta' or not.
My issue is with those who try to bully and ridicule other players into playing these so-called "meta" builds that they think they should - and conformity in general, especially when it's forced or pressured.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:23PM0 -
ol_BANK_lo✭✭✭✭✭halucin0g3n wrote: »With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.
I honestly don't believe any dev plays this game at a high level...literally none have the skills that I've seen. The only person at ZOS that I've ever seen do any tough content is Gilliam.
Tough to have changes made by a bunch of casuals and programmers.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
People do tell others what to wear/do this and that. Trust me. They do it all the time.
No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do to maximize their Damage for example. If people don't want to wear that tho, they don't have to. Lol.
This makes no sense.
What I said in my post is people do tell others what to wear/do this and that.
Then you respond by saying "No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do...."
You are basically just repeating what I said.
Of course it makes sense.
You said people tell others what to do/wear. I said, people mainly(like 99,99%) tell others what they could wear or should if they want to make the best out of XY. They are not demanding them to do/wear something, but rather suggesting.;-)
Alright, I sorta see what you were saying now.
I still disagree with you though - because the circumstances I have seen they were not suggesting anything. They were just trashing them for not playing as they thought they should be.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
And if anyone is entitled here - it's the players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient". There are more important things in life - and certainly in video games - than being the most "efficient" - like having fun.
Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:28PM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."
Please just read some comments made towards me after I said I like the changes and think they’re good. There you can see the bullying aspect (not that I care but that’s exactly what happened).
I read them all and do not consider that bullying. I think you are acting a bit too sensitive. :-)
As I said, I couldn’t care less about those “insults“. The point is, they were made. I was called a bad healer. A bad player. To get good. Whatever.
What was the reason? Yeah because I dared to question the meta or oppose someone’s views in this topic regarding the upcoming changes. Don’t know if that’s bullying in the end yet it’s a perfect display of the toxicity of parts of the (meta-pleasing) community. And that’s exactly what he’s referring to imho.Edited by Seraphayel on July 7, 2019 10:27PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
asdf0716✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
Are you DPSing/healing/tanking? Yeah, probably. Is that your role? Sure. Are you doing it effectively? Doubt it.
It’s not just about what you want to do; it’s about what allows the group to succeed most efficiently.
Edited by asdf0716 on July 7, 2019 10:32PM5 -
BennyButton✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
So you're saying healers should not wear olorime because it provides a huge dps bump (helping the group clear content faster and easier), they should not wear jorvulds to maximize buff uptimes? they should not wear bogdans because it has a powerful HoT? they should not wear IA because it allows the enemies to take more damage?
What would you suggest in place of these sets???2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.
I have no problems playing with people who want to be "the meta". So long as players get the job done - I got no problems with their builds.
My issue is with those who bully other players into playing builds they think they should - and conformity in general, especially when it's forced or pressured.
Meta is not about an invidual. It is about group as a whole. Having one "non-meta" person in a "meta" group renders the group "non-meta".
And how do the define what "get the job done" means objectively? For me healers job is to provide orbs. So you in my group will not "get the job done". Your margin is then entirely different. But does it even matter if we just don't play in the same group because we have very different goals?
And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.7 -
asdf0716✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.
I have no problems playing with people who want to be "the meta". So long as players get the job done - I got no problems with their builds.
My issue is with those who bully other players into playing builds they think they should - and conformity in general, especially when it's forced or pressured.
Meta is not about an invidual. It is about group as a whole. Having one "non-meta" person in a "meta" group renders the group "non-meta".
And how do the define what "get the job done" means objectively? For me healers job is to provide orbs. So you in my group will not "get the job done". Your margin is then entirely different. But does it even matter if we just don't play in the same group because we have very different goals?
And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.
Exactly.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
It’s not just about what you want to do.
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:31PM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.
The group is asking for something... based on what? Ah right, based on forums where you can read about the meta propagated by a handful of players. Or do you think the game makes these requirements? It doesn’t. It’s players that limit themselves by setting these goalposts in a forum or Discord or a website and the crowd is clinging to them.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
asdf0716✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
It’s not just about what you want to do.
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
You are being ridiculous. It’s NOT about what I want; it’s about what the group wants; which is to clear content with minimal fuss. Don’t like it? Don’t do group activities.4 -
rossk25✭✭✭No longer will healers be running around with SPC!!!Bosmer Magicka Templar - Dest/Resto Staff [ex Stamina Templar - Bow/DW]
Dunmer Magicka DK - Dest/Resto staff
Breton Magicka NB - [Dest/DW PvE] [Dest/Resto PvP]
Bosmer Stamina Warden - Bow/2H0 -
BennyButton✭✭✭✭
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
Your me vs. them mentality is dangerous and laughably not in line with an endgame support player.
If you want to do end game raiding (vDLC HM trials) you create your own non-meta group and have a grand old time. I'll be over here clearing trials.7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.
I have no problems playing with people who want to be "the meta". So long as players get the job done - I got no problems with their builds.
My issue is with those who bully other players into playing builds they think they should - and conformity in general, especially when it's forced or pressured.
Meta is not about an invidual. It is about group as a whole. Having one "non-meta" person in a "meta" group renders the group "non-meta".
And how do the define what "get the job done" means objectively? For me healers job is to provide orbs. So you in my group will not "get the job done". Your margin is then entirely different. But does it even matter if we just don't play in the same group because we have very different goals?
And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.
"Get the job done" in this context would be supplying enough defense, damage, or healing to win the fight. When players demand others build their characters to meet their own personal standards that's when I draw the line.
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.
The group is asking for something... based on what? Ah right, based on forums where you can read about the meta propagated by a handful of players. Or do you think the game makes these requirements? It doesn’t. It’s players that limit themselves by setting these goalposts in a forum or Discord or a website and the crowd is clinging to them.
Based on... what they want? All of those requiments are subjective and different groups ask for different things.
As I said (actually many times now), all you have to do is find a group that has requirments that fit you.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
It’s not just about what you want to do.
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
You are being ridiculous. It’s NOT about what I want; it’s about what the group wants; which is to clear content with minimal fuss. Don’t like it? Don’t do group activities.
You are the one being ridiculous.
I simply did to you what you did to me. So if you didn't like it - then don't do it to others. ^^Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:37PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
Ironic. Isn't it exactly what you are not willing to do?
If I want a meta group, let me have my meta group and just don't play with me. Same if I come to your non-meta group and start demanding you all run meta I should leave and find a different one.
I have no problems playing with people who want to be "the meta". So long as players get the job done - I got no problems with their builds.
My issue is with those who bully other players into playing builds they think they should - and conformity in general, especially when it's forced or pressured.
Meta is not about an invidual. It is about group as a whole. Having one "non-meta" person in a "meta" group renders the group "non-meta".
And how do the define what "get the job done" means objectively? For me healers job is to provide orbs. So you in my group will not "get the job done". Your margin is then entirely different. But does it even matter if we just don't play in the same group because we have very different goals?
And I still do not understand that "bullying" thing you are on about. If you feel like the group is asking you for something you are not willing to do. Just. Walk. Away. You don't have the same goals. There is no reason for you to play together.
"Get the job done" in this context would be supplying enough defense, damage, or healing to win the fight. When players demand others build their characters to meet their own personal standards that's when I draw the line.
Cool. I draw the line in a very different place. Now what?0 -
asdf0716✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
It’s not just about what you want to do.
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
You are being ridiculous. It’s NOT about what I want; it’s about what the group wants; which is to clear content with minimal fuss. Don’t like it? Don’t do group activities.
You are the one being ridiculous.
I simply did to you what you did to me. So if you didn't like it - then don't do it to others. ^^
I’m out. You win. Enjoy getting kicked from groups.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
Your me vs. them mentality is dangerous and laughably not in line with an endgame support player.
If you want to do end game raiding (vDLC HM trials) you create your own non-meta group and have a grand old time. I'll be over here clearing trials.
No what's laughable is players who believe others should have to build their characters to meet their own personal standards of "efficiency".1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
Your me vs. them mentality is dangerous and laughably not in line with an endgame support player.
If you want to do end game raiding (vDLC HM trials) you create your own non-meta group and have a grand old time. I'll be over here clearing trials.
No what's laughable is players who believe others should have to build their characters to meet their own personal standards of "efficiency".
No. They just believe that they want to play in a group, where everyone is willing to build their character to achieve their standards of efficiency.
There is a difference.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.
You think you are entitled to the endgame without adopting the most efficient and objectively best way to gear yourself out and act in a support role (healer)? Vet dungeons is not the endgame btw, so if you're thinking that this will help with pugs getting kicked from 4-man dungeons, you are mistaken.
What I think is it's not hard for people to accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should.
If anyone is entitled here - it's players who feel they are entitled to everyone else playing builds they believe are the most "efficient".
This is where your argument falls off the rails. You aren’t doing endgame alone. If you were, you could do whatever you wanted, but, not running optimal gear makes you “x” less effective which translates to things taking “y” longer which means more chances for someone to *** something up and result in a wipe. Or not being able to clear the content at all.
It’s not just about what you want to do.
It's not just about what you want either. So that's where your argument falls off the rails.
So long as players can get the job done - they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. Demanding that other players change their builds to be more "efficient" is forcing their own priorities onto others - which is the every definition of entitlement.
You are being ridiculous. It’s NOT about what I want; it’s about what the group wants; which is to clear content with minimal fuss. Don’t like it? Don’t do group activities.
You are the one being ridiculous.
I simply did to you what you did to me. So if you didn't like it - then don't do it to others. ^^
I’m out. You win. Enjoy getting kicked from groups.
If I was to kick anyone out of a group - it would be for ridiculing other players simply because they didn't play their character exactly like they wanted them to.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:42PM2 -
rossk25✭✭✭As a healer myself. These changes are a punch in the guts.
One of my healers is a bosmer templar healer and I ALWAYS get sh|t for it. "oh you can't heal properly, oh you will struggle with mag resources" etc. Etc. I loved to prove them wrong and show my bosmer healer is just as good. These healer changes will actually change this. Rapid regeneration was something I always had up for my group. Now it will be too expensive to cast. Will need to cast it 4 bloody times at an increased cost of a total 10,800 mag every 5 seconds. It's a brutal slap in the face. Means I will be needing to do way more heavy attacks for sustain.
On my other dk healer, healing springs was my main heal. Now I will probably never use him cause dk heal skills arnt that strong to begin with. I mean, cinder storm is becoming more expensive for a small area of increased heal that is difficult to aim and keep your group in...Bosmer Magicka Templar - Dest/Resto Staff [ex Stamina Templar - Bow/DW]
Dunmer Magicka DK - Dest/Resto staff
Breton Magicka NB - [Dest/DW PvE] [Dest/Resto PvP]
Bosmer Stamina Warden - Bow/2H7