Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
Let's talk about the healing changes...
-
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.
You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.
Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.
Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.
Then you are a bad healer, and no one should care what you think.
Yes mate, if you say so. Then I am proud to be a bad healer. Nevertheless I’m the one who can adapt to the changes coming where others just complain and whine.
What exactly are you "adapting"? This patch changes nothing for you because you already aren't doing your job. You'll carry on BoL spamming or whatever it is you think "healing" means and continue to be a detriment to whatever group is unlucky enough to draw your short straw.
You know what’s funny? Guys like you attacking me, insulting me that I am a bad healer or a bad player or whatever yet I’m not the one who’s dependent on two healing skills. If you or your group are totally dependent on those two skills to succeed it’s not me who’s a bad player.
If you and/or your group are unwilling to adapt your playstyle, your sets or your build, then you deserve to fail. And I hope you will because I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
Go on and attack me, I’ll still applaud the changes because they’re good for the game.
Good for the game my ass.7 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't see a lack of healing being an issue.
Stam DK + frag + echoing is a good amount of healing.
Templar AOE purge is a good amount of healing.
Stamwarden/Magwarden have ridiculous healing potential.
If a raid cannot reach the healing requirements that is a straight up theorycrafting/l2p issue.
The relative damage drop of most standard groups will be the breaking feature. Damage requirement are not built around an 8 support 4 meta.0331
06022 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BennyButton wrote: »
Besides, no person should ever build their class to be dependent on a specific ability that someone else in the group must use. That's just asking for trouble - and leads to a lot of unnecessary conflict in groups.
edit: whoops misread - even still, synergies and resources are put there as part of the healer's toolkit, you are now saying DDs need to move away from that, which will lead to less damage, which leads to the DPS checks that the DEVs have put in place in these trials not being met.
They're treating the symptom not the cause of the issue. They're artificially making things harder lol.
Np, I misread things sometimes too.
What I'm saying is that no one should build their class to be dependent on someone else having to use a specific ability. Not everyone plays the same or uses the same abilities - and it's unreasonable for someone to expect everyone else to conform to a single play style so as to oblige them.
This happened in the past with Retribution before it was nerfed - and Orbs was quickly becoming the new Retribution.
I do agree with you though that this change is likely treating the symptom instead of the cause. If healers were so dependent on orbs to effectively heal then that's a problem with the healer role generally and shows what a weak state it is in if it had to rely completely on a single undaunted skill to get the job done.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:15PM0 -
Auroan✭✭✭As far as Healing goes, I don't know, we'll have to see where it goes. Everyone always goes crazy when they see nerfs and major changes, but somehow, people always find a way to realize that it's actually better. Somehow, with all the buffs and nerfs we've had from the start of this game, to where it is now, the power creep has gone out of the roof. People pull higher and higher numbers every patch, and clear content faster and faster. 6 minute IR clears, 6 minute GH clears, etc. A select group of people who have become experts at their roles and achieved team synergy should definitely get those clears. But I'd say a 13, or 12 minute clear IR, or GH clear would be a reasonable amount of time. For the best of the best, I can see a 10 minute clear. 9 at the best if they cheese mechanics like not killing Galanwe in execute. But the fact that people can get 6 minute clears? That screams big power creep. I'd rather ZOS handle it by nerfing damage than buffing all enemies with double health. So the nerf to DPS was a long time coming. I'm sure we'll somehow see damage still being high 80k ST for Mag, and medium to high 90k ST for stam, cause why not? But the nerf to Healing, goodness. That's not how I, or anyone else (from the looks of it), would've handled it.
By nerfing orbs, everything just got nerfed. The obvious nerf is less Healing. However, resources are going to be nerfed as well, as people will pop those orbs the moment they come out, and only 1 pop at a time. So there's going to be a lot of fighting. Less orbs out doesn't just mean less sustain, but less Alkosh procs for Tanks as well since people are going to be fighting for it. While Tanks can get shards thrown to them and other synergies, people will probably be greedy and steal the shards as well. On top of that, because less orbs are out, people are going to be steal conduits and other synergies to proc their Lokk set, which means even less Alkosh. Lokk will either go in the dumpster (unless you're a Necro and proc your own synergies), or Alkosh uptimes are going to take a hit, is my prediction. Nerfing orbs set a whole chain reaction of things in motion.
If you wanted to nerf sustain, then decrease the amount of resources the synergies gives you. Hell, even decrease the amount of resources Ele Drain gives you.
If you wanted to nerf the potency of Lokk, then maybe it should've been given an actual CD instead of having 100% uptimes? That way people will actually purposely time their synergies and hold off on activating them so they can wait for their Lokk to get off CD to proc it again. Lokk lasts for 10 seconds, goes on CD for 10 seconds after it expires. Something?
If you wanted to nerf healing, well, this is definitely one way to do it, lol, but probably not the best way to handle. Again, can be something as simple as just nerfing the amount of healing it does. I'm okay with the Healing Springs changes, tbh. Stacking springs was a little OP. But Orbs? Goodness. Orbs heal better then Springs, yeah, so maybe nerf how much it heals, or put a healing cap on it, like only heals 3 people next to it. Maybe at least limit it to 3 or 4 orbs out at a time instead of 1? I don't know. But man, 1 orb...that's brutal."And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:34PM8 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?Most OwOrated healer of all time4 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.1 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.
You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.
Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.
Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.
Interesting.
Can you provide some detail on what exactly you actually do as a healer? What skills do you slot? Do you have a rotation? What are your tactics? What gear do you feel fills your role as a strict healer?
I'm genuinely curious.
5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:46PM3 -
Lady_Rosabella✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
ROFLMAO,
@Seraphayel you are not forced to wear set x or build y, play the game the way you want to play.
@Jeremy ....these same developers you speak of release multiple new sets every single update that are usually better than the sets they released in the prior update, encouraging players to run the dungeons or trials, especially in Hard Mode to get the "perfected" pieces. Do you honestly think that ZOS will stop making these new, better sets because a handful of players prefer to craft their own armor? Lol! As far as preserving the aspect of the game, my hubby and I have been playing since launch and there has always been sets that are usually better to acquire from dungeons and/or Trials as well as Overland sets....that has always been the "aspect" of this game.5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
There is a difference in wanting to follow "the meta" - and then demanding it of others.
With the former I have no issue. With the latter, I do.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:48PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »@Seraphayel you are not forced to wear set x or build y, play the game the way you want to play.
@Jeremy ....these same developers you speak of release multiple new sets every single update that are usually better than the sets they released in the prior update, encouraging players to run the dungeons or trials, especially in Hard Mode to get the "perfected" pieces. Do you honestly think that ZOS will stop making these new, better sets because a handful of players prefer to craft their own armor? Lol! As far as preserving the aspect of the game, my hubby and I have been playing since launch and there has always been sets that are usually better to acquire from dungeons and/or Trials as well as Overland sets....that has always been the "aspect" of this game.
Again: please read my posts more carefully before responding. I didn't say that's what the developers were doing. I said that's what the developers should do.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:49PM0 -
Sir_Xalvador✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
ROFLMAO,
@Seraphayel you are not forced to wear set x or build y, play the game the way you want to play.
@Jeremy ....these same developers you speak of release multiple new sets every single update that are usually better than the sets they released in the prior update, encouraging players to run the dungeons or trials, especially in Hard Mode to get the "perfected" pieces. Do you honestly think that ZOS will stop making these new, better sets because a handful of players prefer to craft their own armor? Lol! As far as preserving the aspect of the game, my hubby and I have been playing since launch and there has always been sets that are usually better to acquire from dungeons and/or Trials as well as Overland sets....that has always been the "aspect" of this game.
0 -
Heelie✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.
so why do you care about it if it has no impact on your game? A lot of people like to get good at the game, use team play, develop friendships and have fun over nessesarily having a unique build.Most OwOrated healer of all time9 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We are entering an 8 support 4 meta, but hard content still outright demands a 4 support 8 meta.
The combat changes aren't the problematic feature here, overall difficulty scaling is the issue for trials.0331
06020 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
People do tell others what to wear/do this and that. Trust me. They do it all the time.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 9:51PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.
so why do you care about it if it has no impact on your game? A lot of people like to get good at the game, use team play, develop friendships and have fun over nessesarily having a unique build.
I didn't say it had no impact on the game. It does - and a negative one. It just doesn't affect me personally in the sense I'm going to build my character the way I want regardless. But I know plenty of other individuals who have been bullied into conforming. It makes the game less diverse - and as a result less interesting.1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.14 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
There is a difference in wanting to follow "the meta" - and then demanding it of others.
With the former I have no issue. With the latter, I do.
I don't know anyone, who demands from others to play the Meta. If you don't want to play it, don't do it.
Obviously the consequence is that you probably won't participate in Hardcore Endgame - as in the Endgame it is required to adapt your Gameplay to the Group to make the best out of all Situations. And not to stay stubborn and selfish saying "I don't like that, so I don't do that. I am supposed to have fun only."Edited by hasi on July 7, 2019 9:57PM9 -
Lady_Rosabella✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »@Seraphayel you are not forced to wear set x or build y, play the game the way you want to play.
@Jeremy ....these same developers you speak of release multiple new sets every single update that are usually better than the sets they released in the prior update, encouraging players to run the dungeons or trials, especially in Hard Mode to get the "perfected" pieces. Do you honestly think that ZOS will stop making these new, better sets because a handful of players prefer to craft their own armor? Lol! As far as preserving the aspect of the game, my hubby and I have been playing since launch and there has always been sets that are usually better to acquire from dungeons and/or Trials as well as Overland sets....that has always been the "aspect" of this game.
Again: please read my posts more carefully before responding. I didn't say that's what the developers were doing. I said that's what the developers should do.
And I said "do you honestly think that ZOS will stop" meaning your little suggestion "that's what the developers should do" is a waste of time even putting that in a post. Again, please read my comment before replying.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Nerfing an ability everyone and their mother was using and was considered mandatory for any healer is not going to make this problem worse.
As to your latter point - that's a fair one - and I would not oppose buffing healers to compensate if that becomes necessary. But the obsession for orbs was growing tiresome. Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:01PM1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Lady_Rosabella wrote: »@Seraphayel you are not forced to wear set x or build y, play the game the way you want to play.
@Jeremy ....these same developers you speak of release multiple new sets every single update that are usually better than the sets they released in the prior update, encouraging players to run the dungeons or trials, especially in Hard Mode to get the "perfected" pieces. Do you honestly think that ZOS will stop making these new, better sets because a handful of players prefer to craft their own armor? Lol! As far as preserving the aspect of the game, my hubby and I have been playing since launch and there has always been sets that are usually better to acquire from dungeons and/or Trials as well as Overland sets....that has always been the "aspect" of this game.
Again: please read my posts more carefully before responding. I didn't say that's what the developers were doing. I said that's what the developers should do.
And I said "do you honestly think that ZOS will stop" meaning your little suggestion "that's what the developers should do" is a waste of time even putting that in a post. Again, please read my comment before replying.
I did read your post. The entire thing was talking about what the developers were doing - when I was talking about what they should do.
So yes - please read my posts more carefully before responding.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:05PM0 -
Lady_Rosabella✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.
so why do you care about it if it has no impact on your game? A lot of people like to get good at the game, use team play, develop friendships and have fun over nessesarily having a unique build.
I didn't say it had no impact on the game. It does - and a negative one. It just doesn't affect me personally in the sense I'm going to build my character the way I want regardless. But I know plenty of other individuals who have been bullied into conforming. It makes the game less diverse - and as a result less interesting.
Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
There is a difference in wanting to follow "the meta" - and then demanding it of others.
With the former I have no issue. With the latter, I do.
I don't know anyone, who demands from others to play the Meta. If you don't want to play it, don't do it.
Obviously the consequence is that you probably won't participate in Hardcore Endgame - as in the Endgame it is required to adapt your Gameplay to the Group to make the best out of all Situations. And not to stay stubborn and selfish saying "I don't like that, so I don't do that. I am supposed to have fun only."
Oh I sure do. I meet them all the time.
And if anything is "Stubborn and Selfish" it's for someone to demand that other people play the way they want them to.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:05PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.9 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lady_Rosabella wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.
so why do you care about it if it has no impact on your game? A lot of people like to get good at the game, use team play, develop friendships and have fun over nessesarily having a unique build.
I didn't say it had no impact on the game. It does - and a negative one. It just doesn't affect me personally in the sense I'm going to build my character the way I want regardless. But I know plenty of other individuals who have been bullied into conforming. It makes the game less diverse - and as a result less interesting.
Bullied??? How can someone be bullied into conforming in an online game?? If a player doesn't want to play a certain way, wear certain gear, use certain skills, they don't have to. Ultimately every person who purchases this game and signs up for an account can play the way they want as long as they follow the TOS, etc. I'm am so tired of people crying about being bullied, those people need to grow up or go find their "safe space."
Through ridicule and kicking them out of groups, etc. That's how.
So long as a player is getting the job done they should be left alone to play their character as they wish. It's the players who demand that everyone else play exactly like they want them to who need to grow up and stop crying or go find a safe space.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:14PM1 -
Sir_Xalvador✭✭✭
I didn't say it had no impact on the game. It does - and a negative one. It just doesn't affect me personally in the sense I'm going to build my character the way I want regardless. But I know plenty of other individuals who have been bullied into conforming. It makes the game less diverse - and as a result less interesting.
Bullied ? so...
1- How old are these individuals
2 - its bad when others feel bullied, behind a screen miles away from said person in their own home
3 - let me guess...they need a safe placeEdited by Sir_Xalvador on July 7, 2019 10:14PM0 -
hasi✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
No one is telling you to wear/do this and that. But some people, especially those interested in Hardcore Endgame, (want to) follow the Meta tho. By nerfing this Meta the Variety from before will go *poof*.
People do tell others what to wear/do this and that. Trust me. They do it all the time.
No, all people do is to tell others, what they could/should wear/do to maximize their Damage for example. If people don't want to wear that tho, they don't have to. Lol.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your counter argument that bullying people into using orbs (which is what I'm actually talking about) was somehow making the game fun for people is ridiculous.Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
You do understand that this change to orbs (and healing in general) only makes your problem worse? Under such ruleset templar will have a distinct advantage again with their ability to provide targeted shards to tank. So healing is back to templar or go home.
And the real problem you have has nothing to do with changing something in the game. Only your mentality. You want build diversity and your own theorycrafting? Cool. Find people who share the same outlook and play with them.
Some people don't play like you. They have absolutely the same amount of fun as you by building the most efficient character/group. And yes, relying on orbs to provide you sustain is the most efficient way. There is nothing objectively wrong with that approach too. Just don't play with these people.
Why are you so insistent on ruining other's fun? Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than narrowminded players who believe that their "fun" is the only "fun" allowed.
Why do you call it "bullying"? This is just a normal playstyle disagreement which can be easily solved by not playing together.
- Why are there not enough orbs?
- I don't like running orbs because it does not fit my build
- In our group all healers have to run orbs
- Then I don't have to play with your group -> *leaves*
Works the other way around too.
- Where are my orbs?
- I run that that and that skill and do not run orbs
- But I need orbs for my sustain!
- Then you can play with a different group
- *leaves*
It's not hard.
It's not hard for people to just accept not everyone is going to play exactly like they feel they should either.Edited by Jeremy on July 7, 2019 10:11PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »... I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.
I'm sick of it too.
Nothing ruins an MMORPG faster than endgame conformity. Creating your own build is a large part of what makes RPG games fun and interesting to begin with and developers should work to preserve and encourage that aspect of the game. As I've said before on here: Variety is the spice of life.
how does "end game conformity" impact your game at all?
It impacts the game generally - and leads to a decline in build diversity because it causes many players to abandon their own pursuits in order to appease some endgame guild.
Me personally, it doesn't affect because I could care less what people think of my builds. But it's impact on the game itself is something I do get sick of.
so why do you care about it if it has no impact on your game? A lot of people like to get good at the game, use team play, develop friendships and have fun over nessesarily having a unique build.
And that’s determined by one or two abilities? Again my question, let’s assume the changes go live as they are in the notes: what are you going to do?PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0