EBK wrote: »

Imagine this: you're in VAS +2, theres orbs coming in (everyone knows there can only be one active at a time), everyone sees them, they're running for it.. (it's coming in so freaking slowly), group healer is trying to reposition their one spring, and everyone scatters. 😂 it's going to be chaos lol.

Not to mention the tank needing an orb, and a DD popping it en route I guess we'll have to have designated orbs, whereby healer will be calling out: 'This is for the tank, this one is for DD 1' 84 years later... 'This is for DD 8'

This is nonsense. As a healer I'm disappointed. What about trials where you have to spam healing springs to survive???

2 – 833 Spell Critical
3 – 1096 Maximum Magicka
4 – 833 Spell Critical
5 – Whenever you critically heal or critically damage a target, spawn a ball of Hemoglobin at their location. After 2 seconds the ball explodes, restoring 3470 Magicka and applying Minor Vitality to you and your allies within 6 meters of the ball for 9 seconds, increasing their healing received by 8%. This effect can occur once every 9 seconds


Looks to me that mag DDs wont have any troubles in trials where you use to stack

halucin0g3n wrote: »

With these changes other healer races than Templars will be refused in trials. Templars has blazing spear so they can provide more resources. Persons who made these changes i believe they never played the game.

Templar PvE healer here, been healing for 5 years now......with these changes to Grand Healing and Regeneration, even Templars will not have the resources to keep throwing blazing spears/shards after compensating for these nerfs. With food, I have a magicka pool of 36,852 plus my recovery of 2818 and I will not be able to maintain the heals, buffs, and damage that I normally do when I heal in my trial groups. Time to retire her until they fix this crap.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.

Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.

Then you are a bad healer, and no one should care what you think.

Yes mate, if you say so. Then I am proud to be a bad healer. Nevertheless I’m the one who can adapt to the changes coming where others just complain and whine.

What exactly are you "adapting"? This patch changes nothing for you because you already aren't doing your job. You'll carry on BoL spamming or whatever it is you think "healing" means and continue to be a detriment to whatever group is unlucky enough to draw your short straw.

You know what’s funny? Guys like you attacking me, insulting me that I am a bad healer or a bad player or whatever yet I’m not the one who’s dependent on two healing skills. If you or your group are totally dependent on those two skills to succeed it’s not me who’s a bad player.

If you and/or your group are unwilling to adapt your playstyle, your sets or your build, then you deserve to fail. And I hope you will because I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.

Go on and attack me, I’ll still applaud the changes because they’re good for the game.

Heelie wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.

Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.

Then you are a bad healer, and no one should care what you think.

Yes mate, if you say so. Then I am proud to be a bad healer. Nevertheless I’m the one who can adapt to the changes coming where others just complain and whine.

What exactly are you "adapting"? This patch changes nothing for you because you already aren't doing your job. You'll carry on BoL spamming or whatever it is you think "healing" means and continue to be a detriment to whatever group is unlucky enough to draw your short straw.

You know what’s funny? Guys like you attacking me, insulting me that I am a bad healer or a bad player or whatever yet I’m not the one who’s dependent on two healing skills. If you or your group are totally dependent on those two skills to succeed it’s not me who’s a bad player.

If you and/or your group are unwilling to adapt your playstyle, your sets or your build, then you deserve to fail. And I hope you will because I’m sick and tired of the meta crowd that forces others to wear set x or use build y to be accepted.

Go on and attack me, I’ll still applaud the changes because they’re good for the game.

You are the one defending a change that over 1000 people have signed a petition against, you're saying we rely on two skills to succed, but several people on this thread have pointed out the the orb change has to be seen in a bigger picture. Your arguments are base on nothing, just straw man arguments against end game players, as you have no idea how the end game is played. Saying these changes are good for anything is just trying to bait people into attacking you. You have come up with no argument why that is actually the case.

A thousand players signed an irrelevant petition about a skill change in an online game? That’s what I would call peak absurdity. Nevertheless continue this madness, it’s amusing.

By the way, I already pointed out why I think the changes are good for the game. Several times.

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

It DOES seem that they are trying to reinforce the idea that healers are meant to heal, not buff. I think this is an admirable goal. HOWEVER....

1) Morrowind sustain nerfs killed sustain to the point where healers need to provide sustain and buff in the first place. To get rid of healer's sustain functionality, you need to either roll back the Morrowind changes in their entirety OR re-work all content that has been created since morrowind to require less dps, because building for sustain as dps results in that loss.

2) The springs change kinda makes the whole thing a moot point. Most healers simply won't be able to heal veteran content without being able to spam springs, plain and simple. Unless they implement some other powerful, spammable aoe heal. I think templars have this, but other classes do not as I understand it.

I too, would LOVE to see the devs complete some vet trials on the PTS right now. It would be very enlightening IMO.

Yea.. maybe more of a pure healing in trials. But in Grp Dungeons? After this patch I ask more than ever why a healer should be taken inside. Even tanking FV hm isn't that hard without healer.

ABuster wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.

Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.

Then you are a bad healer, and no one should care what you think.

Yes mate, if you say so. Then I am proud to be a bad healer. Nevertheless I’m the one who can adapt to the changes coming where others just complain and whine.

Yes you are a bad healer. Good healers are healing more than enough AND buff with real good uptimes. You just admit that you are not able to manage more than one task at once.

I never said I am not doing it. I said as a healer I shouldn’t be doing it. That’s a difference. I refuse to accept the idea of ESOs healer where it’s 25% buffing, 25% resource bot, 25% healing and 25% DPS.

It seems like ZOS is trying to bring back the true healer role which is a design goal I am very pleased with.

Again, attack me, insult me, call me a bad player or a bad healer, it’s pretty much pointless. At least as pointless as a petition.
_____

By the way: let’s assume all of the changes make it to live (you already know, they will), what are you going to do? Rage quit? Or are you going to adapt or find a solution? Be honest.

CP5 wrote: »

I would love to see a dev run of say, vHoF hm with this change.

They prob even cant beat vHof without HM.
just shows once again, that they have no real clue how this game is played atm.

Seraphayel wrote: »

iLLcrime wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Edit: And the idea that DDs will have to build more for sustain may seem nice if you want THEM to rethink their build. But making them rely less on healers is like... the opposite of what we need. Why take away more utility from healers when they're already not needed for so much content? I already barely need to heal most content, now I can provide less sustain? I'm trying to play a support role here.

You see they’re trying to solve this riddle: healers are healers and not buffers or second DPS. By changing several healing abilities and the changes to resource generating skills healing will become more difficult, e.g. healers will have to do more healing. This results in DPS to self-sustain instead of rely on the healer OR there will be a completely new role of the supporting DPS / buffer / pure supporter.

Except the way it'll end up working now is healers will be forced into a Worm/Hircines build to cater to the DPS like always.

Then simply don’t do it. I am a healer and I refuse to cater to sustain needs DPS can’t or won’t take care of themselves. I’m preventing you from death, that’s my job, not fixing your sustain problems just because you want to build for 100% damage and 0% sustain.

I have met healers with this mentality, and I never have, or never will, understand it.
Completing trials is a team effort. Everyone has to try and give it their all. If you, as a healer, as supplying important things such as sustain from orbs, minor berserk from combat prayer, and synergies, you are doing everything you can to improve group dps and survivability, which leads to quicker boss-killing.
Why would you... be against doing that? Why, as a healer, would you have the mentality of "I just heal, screw you guys, I don't care if I am literally hindering the team and making the fight last longer."
They're... your team. You're in it together. Why would you refuse to help the entire group? There is zero reason not to.
Mind-boggling.

Being 'just a healer' in this game is the most brain-dead easy thing you can do, hands down.
Being a good healer is not.

Edit: I misquoted.

Saw some comments about people claiming Healers should only Heal, not support their DPS or Tanks. Just for a heads up, in high level play, while obviously keeping your team alive is still your priority, you (at some point in your ESO career, I hope) will either be a part of a group, or at least view a group on Youtube, who has excelled past the need for Healing spams.

The reason why Sorc Off-Healing for vMoL HM 3rd pad burn and certain score pushing groups had DPS as their 2nd off heals is because these people are so experienced, and have mastered their classes and the mechanics of said Trial so much, that they simply don't take damage because they know how to avoid it all together. What does a Healer do when their group isn't taking damage? Heal the dirt? What does a Tank do if they're holding Aggro and they never die to being with? Just continue holding block and stack Plague and Green Pact for more health that they don't need? The point is, this game, like every other MMO out there, has the goal of killing the enemy first before they kill you. The faster you kill something, the less times it does its mechanics. The less times it does its mechanics, the less opportunities for failure and death, since we're all human and sometimes make mistakes.

So what should you do and what sets should you wear if you're never dying in the first place and Tank always has aggro? It's simple. You support your DPS, because they're the most important thing to support because they're the ones that get you through the content (I'm a Tank main, btw, not a bias DPS, though I do DPS on the side). Whether certain people are aware of it, or not, and like it, or not, certain Trials/Dungs simply aren't possible until you hit a certain threshold for group DPS. Otherwise, Creepers will overlap and Orbs won't die, or the Tank will have 12 Celestial Axes on them and 7 mini-mages up, or vHoF 3rd boss will be moving so fast you'll literally have like, 2 seconds to do damage to it with how fast it's moving, or Assembly General, Rakkhat, or the Celestial Mage in execute will just finish their execute mechanic and kill you. Get my point? Wear buffing sets like Alkosh, Yoln, Olo, IA, etc. is what you want, because there's nothing else for you to do in high level play except clear the content faster and avoid more potential opportunities for death. And to do that, you need higher group DPS, which is achieved by buffing.

Rustyfish101 wrote: »

As a healer main I must say I'm very worried about the changes to healing in this coming patch.

Only one grand healing (plus morphs) at a time is a huge nerf. Don't get me wrong healers have had this coming for a long time, our heals have always been pretty OP but what made grand healing (plus morphs) so effective was its ability to stack. At the moment it heals for about 2-3k per second every 4 seconds for Illustrious Healing (this is the example I'll use since it's what is currently best) depending on the points you have into various things that affect healing such as spell damage and Blessed. If we were to be spamming just Illustrious we'd be stacking it causing it to heal for roughly 6-12k per second (again depending on the healer and points dedicated to making the heals powerful). Which while overpowered is necessary sometimes for especially difficult fights in endgame PvE such as DLC dungeons and trials (vCR/vHoF anyone?).

Don't even get me started on orbs as well. Same thing with it being a pretty powerful heal + resource restore, its totally reasonable that it'd get nerfed at some point, but to have only one at a time? Many people rely heavily on orbs for resources in order to get the DPS needed to clear end game PvE these days. Limiting it to one at a time will have the DPS going nuts for the now rare synergy in a 12 person trial.

I feel this was a huge oversight caused by a lack of hindsight of someone who doesn't understand how important these things are in PvE. Please reconsider these changes, I'm worried some content will simply become unbeatable unless everyone starts healing themselves (in which case who needs a healer am I right?). There needs to be a better way to balance healing without taking away the purpose of a healer in the first place.

I approve of any nerf to orbs if for no other reason than to end the obsession for it. It was getting close to replacing the old retribution in that respect.

Besides, no person should ever build their class to be dependent on a specific ability that someone else in the group must use. That's just asking for trouble - and leads to a lot of unnecessary conflict in groups.

BennyButton wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Besides, no person should ever build their class to be dependent on a specific ability that someone else in the group must use. That's just asking for trouble - and leads to a lot of unnecessary conflict in groups.

Orbs is not a class ability. orbs ALLOWED other classes to heal lol. This is hampering the ability for healers to do part of their job.

I did not say orbs was a class ability. Please read my posts more carefully before responding.