Defense in PvP has gotten silly, can we start looking at the Res vs Pen imbalance?

Crom_CCCXVI · July 2019

It seems every year since launch or Weapon Ults, DPS in PvP slips a little further behind. I'm not talking about the fads like the Necro Bash, or the cheese like snipe spam, but legit mechanics. I choose to play high DPS toons.
I understand the finer of DPS also, this isn't a build thing, this isn't me needing to get gud or whatever smart ass phrase follows a post like this. This is simply the combat in PvP has become a bunch of zergs totally relying on Ult stacks or just garbage.. Everyone is wearing these 40,000resist, 35recovery nonsense.

As an experiment I had 24000 Penetration and attack tool tip at 9K. Now in my mind, as in the past I should be hitting people non-crit 3500-4000, I'm averaging 1200-1500... not blocking, thats 40k resistance.. Enough, every 1 v 1 out there is 15 min long, which usually ends in a draw until one person gets frustrated and reckless or one person runs away.

If Spinners was 9900 pen instead of 3300 it still wouldn't fix the problem, can we start going the other direction, and I don't mean "bomb style" just base DPS please?

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

It's not just that power creep has buffed mitigation more than damage, it's also buffed healing far more than damage (yet ZOS keeps nerfing Defiles). Players in heavy armor and 3 tank sets can effectively heal entire zergs. Healing should be something you build for, not something you get for free while running a tank, holding block, and spamming 1 button.

Noobslayer3255 · July 2019

It's not just the resistance, the main culprits are blocking and the prevalence of major protection. Where is all the easy access to major berserk?

nsmurfer · July 2019

The new patch wrecks stam healing and stam defenses. Will be fun

kaithuzar · July 2019

I’ve argued many times before that the amount of damage mitigated by blocking is too high.

Baconlad · July 2019

As a magplar with SnB, templar passives, and one sturdy with a good amount in block cost redux CP, and deep thoughts I can block for days. It trolly really...pop a pot, mist form while stam regens, heavy attacks...never run out of stam and I'm only at 10k stam...blocking is too strong

Deathlord92 · July 2019

Your right this tank meta is ridiculous I hate it. I sigh every time I have to fight one because it’s always ends the same he or she ain’t killing me I ain’t killing them we both always end up walking away even some of the most toxic players I know give up. The worst imo tho for it is pet sorcs more resistances then tanks a strong shield to better healing then a magplar and ridiculous damage lol 😂

VaranisArano · July 2019

Its an arms race.

If you buff damage, players build tankier in response because they, for reasons that undoubtedly seem good to them, don't want to die.

Ftiryaki13 · July 2019

Also, blocking should only work if u are faced to the opponent. Attacks from a certain angle or back should not be mitigated.

GrumpyDuckling · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

It's not just that power creep has buffed mitigation more than damage, it's also buffed healing far more than damage (yet ZOS keeps nerfing Defiles). Players in heavy armor and 3 tank sets can effectively heal entire zergs. Healing should be something you build for, not something you get for free while running a tank, holding block, and spamming 1 button.

In the past I tried arguing against nerfs for defile but received pushback from former class reps. They were the ones with ZOS' ear, and we ended up getting nerfs to defiling that has resulted in more healing for builds that are not even built to heal. Now we have resistances + heals FTW.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/419045/in-defense-of-major-defile-and-befoul/p1

Noobslayer3255 · July 2019

nsmurfer wrote: »

The new patch wrecks stam healing and stam defenses. Will be fun

If you're talking about the leaked notes, I've seen nothing that wrecks stam anything, on the contrary vigor is getting buffed, but you won't be able to stack vigors from multiple players anymore.

lazerlaz · July 2019

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

It seems every year since launch or Weapon Ults, DPS in PvP slips a little further behind. I'm not talking about the fads like the Necro Bash, or the cheese like snipe spam, but legit mechanics. I choose to play high DPS toons.
I understand the finer of DPS also, this isn't a build thing, this isn't me needing to get gud or whatever smart ass phrase follows a post like this. This is simply the combat in PvP has become a bunch of zergs totally relying on Ult stacks or just garbage.. Everyone is wearing these 40,000resist, 35recovery nonsense.

As an experiment I had 24000 Penetration and attack tool tip at 9K. Now in my mind, as in the past I should be hitting people non-crit 3500-4000, I'm averaging 1200-1500... not blocking, thats 40k resistance.. Enough, every 1 v 1 out there is 15 min long, which usually ends in a draw until one person gets frustrated and reckless or one person runs away.

If Spinners was 9900 pen instead of 3300 it still wouldn't fix the problem, can we start going the other direction, and I don't mean "bomb style" just base DPS please?

I want to agree with you and I do. I think there is a serious issue with mitigation vs dps in pvp. Only squishy targets like true nightblades who go for damage sets and anyone in light armor caught without their shields stack, are "squishy"

Majority of people wear heavy and to my point about your statement.
, with 9k damage tooltip and 24000 penetration... How on Earth are you only hitting for 1200-1500 damage on high resist targets? Is this based off light attacks? What skill are you doing your primary damage with? I run my surprise attack on my bow bar with an 11k tooltip with only rally buff out of stealth, no other buffs, with about 8k penetration. I hit much harder than that.

Lokey0024 · July 2019

Cp system makes healing OP. There is no direct counter to it except defile, which gives a % of a % in the CP tree instead of direct % addition, and some classes have no access to it reasonably. I'm not even sure the defile Cp bonus applies to minor, the tooltip stays the same on sets with minor defile. Health pools are to low anyhow, making counterplay almost a joke.

usmcjdking · July 2019

kaithuzar wrote: »

I’ve argued many times before that the amount of damage mitigated by blocking is too high.

Block mit is fine.

There are too few direct damage block breakers.

Savos_Saren · July 2019

I have no problem with buffing defile... just as long as you make it more accessible to magic-based characters and add a magic-based bleed (one that ignores all spell resistances) for magic users.

Ragnaroek93 · July 2019

Introduce soft caps on armor. Kinda hilarious that there's no diminishing return on armor stacking in 2019.

KillsAllElves · July 2019

Damage and resistance cap for pvp, zos needs to learn how to differentiate implement nerfs/buffs for classes that are seperate from pve and pvp.

If you want to play a fake me out proto tank go tank a trial, gtfo of cyrodiil.

The amount of Resistances and damage players can stack is beyond ridiculous.

JumpmanLane · July 2019

No matter how much resistances a player stacks it's only 50%, any thing else is multiplicative, so it's something under 100%. It's only close to a hundred if they are blocking. Blocking costs resources. Which means...

Outside of a troll build, nothing in cryo is unkillable. Whine less, theorycraft more. Whine less add some damage. Whine less add more pen.
Ffs.

XIIICaesar · July 2019

@JumpmanLane Totally agree. People would be amazed the combos they can come up with when they theory craft instead of following the meta sets & cookie cutter builds. My StamBlade runs around with capped resistances & 4.8k buffed weapon damage. Built as brawler in medium armor. StamCro medium armor, capped resistances &5k buffed weapon damage. Gotta think outside the meta box. Not everyone that's tanky & deals high damage is in heavy armor or a glass cannon. You need to balance your build between offense & defense. Oh &I almost forgot to mention neither run shields.

JumpmanLane · July 2019

XIIICaesar wrote: »

@JumpmanLane Totally agree. People would be amazed the combos they can come up with when they theory craft instead of following the meta sets & cookie cutter builds. My StamBlade runs around with capped resistances & 4.8k buffed weapon damage. Built as brawler in medium armor. StamCro medium armor, capped resistances &5k buffed weapon damage. Gotta think outside the meta box. Not everyone that's tanky & deals high damage is in heavy armor or a glass cannon. You need to balance your build between offense & defense. Oh &I almost forgot to mention neither run shields.

This∆ lol. People are running builds that they find online that are exactly as Caesar says. Then they beg ZOS for nerfs not really understanding how the builds they run work (or more to the point, DON’T).