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Once again the Devs have failed all Magicka Warden players.

TheGreatBlackBear
TheGreatBlackBear
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Another patch has come, and for the umpteenth time in a row Magdens will be bottom tier DPS in PVE. When it was announced that the every single ability in the game was getting looked at and adjusted I was cautiously optimistic. I had hoped against all common sense that finally the people in charge of balancing combat would make changes, tweaks, adjustments anything to make my favourite class and the ONLY class that I spent additional money for viable at the highest level. And surprise surprise I was wrong. Dead wrong.

Reading the patch notes the biggest bone PVE Magdens were thrown was the increase in major expedition from Bird of Prey. That was the most impactful change they thought they could have made. That is insulting. There are so many skills in the Magden's toolkit that are underwhelming at best and downright pathetic at worst.

Today's post will be about the Animal Companion's skill line. Others will follow via edits or new threads.

I'll start with the class spammable screaming cliff racer. Recently it got changed so depending on how far away from the target you are the attack gains a buff of up to 15%. The problem with this is that the game is largely spent playing in melee range so your class spammable is never used to it's full potential. VAS+2 is the only time you'd really be away from the boss. In VCR, VMOL, VHOF and VSS you are in melee range unless you're playing mechanics. The amount of dps added here is so miniscule you are better of saving your skill point and keeping the base ability.
How I'd improve it: I'd actually take the effect from Fetcher Infection apply it to the class spammable. So keep the spammable at the same strength as the base ability but have it be 50% stronger on every other cast. This makes a lot more sense than having every other cast of an expensive and lengthy DoT like fetcher Infection be buffed with every other cast.

Secondly let's look at Fetcher Infection and it's sister morph Growing Swarm. Both of them have effects which are puzzling. As I already mentioned every second cast of Fetcher Infection gives it a 50% increase in strength. As I mentioned before 10 seconds is a long time to wait to benefit from additional damage and double tapping the skill for an instant boost is both costly and not at all effective.
How I'd improve it: I'd give Fetcher Infection minor vulnerability for the duration of its effect. Thematically it would fit the move as being infected makes something prone to taking more damage. More importantly it would give a group a serious reason to bring a Magden in the raid as this would free a healer up from wearing Infal and they would be able to run another buff or debuff set.

As for Growing Swarm I'd completely rework this skill or make it a morph for Stamdens. Currently when the duration of Growing Swarm ends the fetcherflies spread to six nearby enemies and start the DoT all over again. I get that this was intended to give Magdens a little more AoE damage bit really and truly it's not necessary. Between Deep Fissure, Winter's Revenge and Wall of Elements Magden's cleave is is ridiculously effective. There is no need for another AoE ability in the rotation.
How I'd improve it: As I said this morph could be something for Stamdens or perhaps it could be given execute damage. This would lead to interesting trade-offs where you could have a Magden deciding whether or not to give up personal DPS by slotting the minor vulnerability morph to help the group or deciding to go "selfish" and deal more damage during the dangerous execute phase.

The last skill that I am going to touch on in the Animal Companions Skill line is the Bear. Put plainly, in a trial there is ZERO utility to be had from the effect of the Bear respawning for free once a minute as pets no longer take damage in group content. And as for overland or solo content there is nothing stopping you from healing the bear just as you would yourself.
How I'd improve it: If the whole Eternal Guardian theme is to be kept why not make it interesting? Once every however long any attack that would kill you instead despawns the bear and fills up your pools. It would really capture the essence of the class with the bear as a first line of offence and last line of defence.



Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on July 3, 2019 8:44PM
  • Roymachine
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    As a magden player, I approve this message.
  • MojaveHeld
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    These are all great design changes, and would greatly improve the design of magdens. Unfortunately, your ideas will almost certainly fall on deaf ears at ZOS, as they have proven utterly unwilling to properly buff magdens.
  • Wolfpaw
    Wolfpaw
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    I would be very happy with these changes.

    The Guardian Ult should be strong since it's a required double ult slot. I don't think the Guardian should even despawn for your proposal.
  • Uryel
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    the biggest bone PVE Magdens were thrown was the increase in major expedition from Bird of Prey. That was the most impactful change they thought they could have made. That is insulting.

    Reminds me of update 20 and the change to Nightblades' "path" skill. The skill used to be an AoE damage that could be morphed to either have a larger area OR add a HoT. Now, the skill starts as a speed buff, and can be morphed to add either damage OR heal.

    I wish they'd realise that no one cares about a speed buff. At least not as the only / main aspect of a skill. I want to run fast, i drink a speed potion. But mostly, I'll never bring a skill that has a speed buff as its main effect. If we were not limited to 5 skills + ultimate, maybe... But as it is, there is only so much one can bring in a toolkit. Maybe it does matter in trials or PvP, but for someone who plays mostly solo / duo, it's one of the worst thing to bring.
  • Wolfpaw
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    Uryel wrote: »
    the biggest bone PVE Magdens were thrown was the increase in major expedition from Bird of Prey. That was the most impactful change they thought they could have made. That is insulting.

    Reminds me of update 20 and the change to Nightblades' "path" skill. The skill used to be an AoE damage that could be morphed to either have a larger area OR add a HoT. Now, the skill starts as a speed buff, and can be morphed to add either damage OR heal.

    I wish they'd realise that no one cares about a speed buff. At least not as the only / main aspect of a skill. I want to run fast, i drink a speed potion. But mostly, I'll never bring a skill that has a speed buff as its main effect. If we were not limited to 5 skills + ultimate, maybe... But as it is, there is only so much one can bring in a toolkit. Maybe it does matter in trials or PvP, but for someone who plays mostly solo / duo, it's one of the worst thing to bring.

    From a pvp perspective BoP lost even more w/changes to Race against time. RaT is almost a mandatory slot for a Magden that provides 4s major expedition.
  • Starlight_Knight
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    There was a post a long time ago called "Warden Feedback Thread" that was designed to be put to the devs by the class reps. I believe the class reps did their best -
    A lot of the community put an awful lot of effort into providing constructive feedback hoping to get the Mag-den a better identity and improved DPS.
    Unfortunately not a single thing we listed was altered or implemented. The class has always felt unfinished and unrefined.
    My Magden is a Grand overlord so don't get me wrong, i love them.. but, gosh they are frustrating.

    Give us a usable stun and our delayed burst potential back, a class execute would be a godsend lots of us have requested before and would love fetcher to work like poison arrow.
    Lets have bear skins to and finish the class off. we deserve it. But i have little faith it will ever happen.. i feel at this stage if you want to play a "finished" class, go sorc.
    Edited by Starlight_Knight on July 3, 2019 10:05PM
  • ryzen_gamer_gal
    ryzen_gamer_gal
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    Their business model drives their changes. They want you to buy and use the next big new and shiny. Disincentivizing the use use of the not new and shiny combined with you're desire to do top tier performance will drive you to buy the new and shiny.

    Wardens used to be the new and shiny, night blade used to be the new and shiny. Now is the turn of necros to be the new and shiny. When another new and shiny comes out that they want you to buy they will disincentivize the use of necros.

    This is how it is.

    It will never be different.

    It is their business model to drive sales, not appease their user base.

    I am sorry this is so but it is the truth.



    "No doubt you've discovered that loyalty is no longer the currency of the realm, as your father believes."
    "Then what is?"
    "...I'm afraid currency, is the currency of the realm."
    ―Cutler Beckett and Elizabeth Swann

    Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (First mentioned)
    Edited by ryzen_gamer_gal on July 3, 2019 8:46PM
  • WildRaptorX
    WildRaptorX
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    Link to the patch notes?
  • Uryel
    Uryel
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    i feel at this stage if you want to play a "finished" class, go sorc.

    At the very least, don't go necromancer. Not stamina necromancer anyway... Sure, it hits hard, unless it's bugged to hell and back, and then your scythe won't heal anymore, you won't be able to stop the blocking anymation, you won't sneak, or run, or mount...
  • TheGreatBlackBear
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    Keylun wrote: »
    Link to the patch notes?

    Warden
    Animal Companions
    Falcon’s Swiftness:
    Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 from 3511 at base.
    This ability no longer grants Major Endurance.
    Major Expedition now lasts 6 seconds, up from 4 seconds. Note this ability is now considered a “rule breaker”, since it breaks the paradigm of Major Expedition lasting 4 seconds.

    Scorch: This ability and its morphs can now be blocked.

    Green Balance
    Corrupting Pollen: This ability no longer applies Major Defile to enemies for 4 seconds inside (which allowed it to bypass the 6 player target cap). Instead, up to 6 enemies inside will be properly afflicted with Major Defile, which will cease once the ability ends or they leave the radius.

    Harvest: Fixed an issue where this synergy would not actively update to targets in the area. It will now operate like other synergies, prioritizing the closest players to the center of the area of effect placed. Also increased the radius of the synergy prompt to 5 meters from 3 meters to allow for more accessibility.

    Lotus Flower: Increased the radius of the heal from this ability and its morphs to 28 meters from 12 meters to aid in better distributing the healing potential to group members.
    Nature's Grasp: This ability and its morphs now scale with your highest offensive stats, rather than just your Max Magicka and Spell Damage.

    Winter’s Embrace
    Arctic Wind: Increased the Heal over Time from this ability and its morphs to 3% of your Max Health, up from 2%. These abilities now properly rank up in healing with each rank, and their tooltips state the actual heal value.

    Arctic Blast (morph): Increased the travel speed of the projectile so it’s similar to Destructive Touch's speed. Also updated the tooltip to state it requires an enemy to cast.

    Polar Wind (morph): Increased the radius to 12 meters from 8 meters for the allied heal.
    Crystallized Shield:
    Removed the cost reduction rank up from this ability and its morphs. They will now all cost 3780 at base.
    The size of the shield from this ability will increase as the ability ranks up.
    Adjusted the Magicka return to be 22% of the ability's cost instead of the previous base value.

    Crystallized Slab (morph): Increased the damage return of this morph by approximately 55% to put it on par with other similar abilities such as Dragon Fire Scale or Inferno.

    Frozen Gate:
    This ability no longer becomes cheaper as it ranks up. The base cost remains 2970 at all ranks, rather than decreasing to 2701 on the morphs.
    The duration has been streamlined to 30 seconds on all morphs.
    This ability now ranks up in damage, but has had its base damage reduced to our PBAoE standard attack. Rank IV of each morph will reach the same damage as before.

    Impaling Shards:
    Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs were being removed before dealing their last tick of damage.
    Fixed an issue where these abilities were being calculated as Direct Damage rather than Damage over Time.
    Updated the tooltips of these abilities to mention their increased chance to apply the Chilled Status Effect.
    Impaling Shards and Gripping Shards: Increased the damage dealt by these abilities by 30% to put them on par with other AoE DoTs, such as Winter’s Revenge.

    Winter’s Revenge (morph): Fixed an issue where this morph could snare enemies through walls.
    Sleet Storm: Reduced the potency of the snare from this ability and its morphs to 40% from 70%.

    That's it. The grand sum of their exertions on the warden class.
    Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on July 3, 2019 8:59PM
  • haelene
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    I lost hope that things would get better a long time ago. Don't get me wrong, I still love the hell out of my magden, but frankly, I just don't do certain content anymore. That's fine though, it's easier on the wallet. No way in hell I'm going to buy dungeon dlc that I find tedious or unplayable on my favorite character.

    *shrug* Silver lining I suppose? Frees up those dollars to go to CDPR.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Why buff magden, if you can buff magplar who was 1k dps away from magblade and with easiest rotation of all classes.
  • ChunkyCat
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    At least you’re not a Magicka Necro. amirite?!

    :trollface:
  • theyancey
    theyancey
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    Yeah, magdens have been waaay over nerfed.
  • TheGreatBlackBear
    TheGreatBlackBear
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    And btw the idea to nerf the bear by 30% to make other ultimates (destro ulti) viable or more appealing. was so idiotic. I'd say it was double stupidity now seeing that you don't need to slot a destro ability for the ancient knowledge passive. It really shows the lack of vision coming from the third rate minds behind these changes.
    Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on July 3, 2019 9:15PM
  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    Imagine zos not nerfing magden hard every single patch since release... imagine zos actually giving magden a normal number of offensive abilities... imagine zos actually considering feedback from their player base after opening several channels dedicated to collecting such information...

    Since release,

    Bear got a 30% damage nerf
    Screaming cliff racer was made dodgeable and then had its projectile sped up to the point where it doesn’t sync up with fissure anymore
    Deep Fissure lost its stun and was made blockable
    Fletcher infection had a cost increase even though it still has an annoying unrewarding double cast mechanic
    Bird of prey was made useless to cast as it lost 4s is off its expedition buff, its endurance buff completely, and was turned into a boring passive damage boost
    Sleet Storm’s morphs had their snare reduced from 70% to 40%
    Arctic blast lost its damage and was turned into the most useless class stun
    Healing Thicket had a 20 ult cost increase and a 30% heal nerf
    Corrupting Pollen has its 4s lingering defile removed
    Nature’s Embrace had its pathing broken with the “invalid location” bug that long plagued dk empowering chains and a wired rubber banding bug that often gets the user killed

    Magden was released with far too few damaging abilities and far too many buff skills. This is a mistake zos actually admits that they avoided when designing necro and yet instead of taking the time to go back and fix the class by reworking some useless winters embrace morphs (expansive frost cloak, arctic blast, crystallized slab, and frozen retreat) into interesting dps skills zos decided to nerf every warden damage ability by taking away their active tactically interesting effects and then partially compensate with brain dead passive damage and sustain boosts.

    In the past zos has noted that they understand how wardens feel like a neglected community, how that they understand how much dps morphs in winters embrace are desired, how they understand why the core design of warden with its excess of passive buffs at the expense of interesting damaging abilities was a mistake to be avoided in the development of their new class and yet they did nothing but nerf over and over and over again... they nerfed them when they were meta, they nerfed when they were strong, they nerfed them when they were weak, and they even nerfed them when they were practically non existent... knowledgeable warden players, class reps, and even experienced players who didn’t play warden voiced their concern at every step of the way but zos didn’t listen... the history of warden is a cyclical ballad of empty statements of understanding and promises of improvement followed by contradictory actions in the name of standardization and deafening silence...

    Actions speak louder than words and thus it is revealed that zos doesn’t care about their magden community... we are not getting more damage dealing morphs to being us up to par with other mag subclasses, we are not getting dps buffs to lift us out or the perpetual state of “worst” or “almost worst” dps subclass, we are not getting reworks to winters embrace and frost staff to bring about the highly desired cryomancer archetype many bought the class for, and we are not getting reworks to our stun or spammable to make them worth using over weapon and world skills in PvP.

    TLDR: Petitioning for Warden reworks and putting forth suggestions is a fruitless endeavor... there are better things to do in life than beg a completely unreceptive and uncommunicative video game company for changes
    Edited by _Ahala_ on July 3, 2019 9:19PM
  • JumpmanLane
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    They failed EVERYBODY! Performance in this game sucks.
  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    They failed EVERYBODY! Performance in this game sucks.

    Your not wrong
  • ezio45
    ezio45
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    Really magic players as a whole have been really let down by zos for a long time.

    magcro, magden, non pet magsorc, magblade, magdk. Really none of them are that competitive in a pvp or pve environment (there a little closer to stam average in pve).
  • TheGreatBlackBear
    TheGreatBlackBear
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    ezio45 wrote: »
    Really magic players as a whole have been really let down by zos for a long time.

    magcro, magden, non pet magsorc, magblade, magdk. Really none of them are that competitive in a pvp or pve environment (there a little closer to stam average in pve).

    That's true
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Pretty good suggestions. I agree!
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
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    ezio45 wrote: »
    Really magic players as a whole have been really let down by zos for a long time.

    magcro, magden, non pet magsorc, magblade, magdk. Really none of them are that competitive in a pvp or pve environment (there a little closer to stam average in pve).

    Disagree on magDK, since last buff they're very strong.
    [ PC EU ]

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  • Seraphayel
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    Just look at Magicka Necromancer (I know this thread is about Warden but how they handled Magcro is quite telling): underwhelming toolkit, scaling badly, buggy, unreliable. They designed a brand new class to be bottom tier (yes, Magcro might possibly be even in a worse situation that Magden, in PvE and especially in PvP). This leads to the question how can this be a case when they had all the Magicka Warden feedback and do nothing with it.

    It’s quite telling honestly.
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