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Confused about Goliath Ulti
red_emu
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So there is some changes to this Ultimate today:
The special Bash augment will now use both your Weapon Damage and Stamina, rather than just Weapon Damage. This Ultimate will now also scale dynamically and use your Spell Damage and Max Magicka if they are higher, which is a standard for our Ultimates that scale off your offensive stats.
What's this change even for? Will the bash while in Goliath form use magica if you are on a magica spec? I mean, this Ulti is useless on a mag build, since you can bash maybe 3 or 4 times and then just stand for the remaining 19 seconds. I'm confused how is this supposed to be of benefit to any Mag Necro? It seems it's the main thing you guys focused on this yet another underwhelming patch but what's the point? I'm confused
The special Bash augment will now use both your Weapon Damage and Stamina, rather than just Weapon Damage. This Ultimate will now also scale dynamically and use your Spell Damage and Max Magicka if they are higher, which is a standard for our Ultimates that scale off your offensive stats.
What's this change even for? Will the bash while in Goliath form use magica if you are on a magica spec? I mean, this Ulti is useless on a mag build, since you can bash maybe 3 or 4 times and then just stand for the remaining 19 seconds. I'm confused how is this supposed to be of benefit to any Mag Necro? It seems it's the main thing you guys focused on this yet another underwhelming patch but what's the point? I'm confused
PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade
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biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭There is another patch note about S+B bash now using Mag damage and Mag to scale. Not sure how this will work on by vicious death S+B mag setup.0 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah I agree. It seems to me - and I hope i'm wrong, but it seems like a buff to stamnecro bash, which is already stupidly OP af. If it is a buff that's very concerning on the dev part.
Please tell me I'm wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord. StamNecro is stupidly strong yet the MagNecro seems to be weak af from what I'm hearing.ZOS_KNowak wrote: »The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible.
Lmao. Actually the full quote is laughable.
If it truly is buffing StamNecro bash, then I'm really concerned about ZoS Balancing team. So many questionable nerfs and changes.Edited by Blackbird_V on July 1, 2019 10:05AMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.1 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »Yeah I agree. It seems to me - and I hope i'm wrong, but it seems like a buff to stamnecro bash, which is already stupidly OP af. If it is a buff that's very concerning on the dev part.
Please tell me I'm wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord. StamNecro is stupidly strong yet the MagNecro seems to be weak af from what I'm hearing.ZOS_KNowak wrote: »The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible.
Lmao. Actually the full quote is laughable.
If it truly is buffing StamNecro bash, then I'm really concerned about ZoS Balancing team. So many questionable nerfs and changes.
Shouldn't it be quite a damage loss (and maybe even increased cost if they removed the 40% reduction from deadly bash) as they removed the 100% damage modifier?Edited by Master_Kas on July 1, 2019 10:05AMEU | PC0 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »Yeah I agree. It seems to me - and I hope i'm wrong, but it seems like a buff to stamnecro bash, which is already stupidly OP af. If it is a buff that's very concerning on the dev part.
Please tell me I'm wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord. StamNecro is stupidly strong yet the MagNecro seems to be weak af from what I'm hearing.ZOS_KNowak wrote: »The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible.
Lmao. Actually the full quote is laughable.
If it truly is buffing StamNecro bash, then I'm really concerned about ZoS Balancing team. So many questionable nerfs and changes.
Shouldn't it be quite a damage loss (and maybe even increased cost if they removed the 40% reduction from deadly bash) as they removed the 100% damage modifier?
Cost a lot more, but doesn't it scale with stam or magicka now? Whatever is higher? PLUS the passive gives Spell/Weapon damage bonus, so that PROBABLY gets buffed with Minor/Major Brutality/Sorcery in the equation.
Idk, we'll have to wait and see since ZoS probably isn't going to give clarity, and they've probably not QA'd it efficiently.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.1 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So mag characters can now use their Spell Damage to bash.... like... once and be out of stam? Useless change and a waste of resources.
"This is a buff if you run a NecroBash Build and a... oh wait. Why would we buff MagNecro? It's for RP purposes only lol. You got ZOSed. Thank you for your money!"
PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade3 -
Hylda69✭✭I wonder why they always need to change meca that works for all instead of nerfing a cheaty ptw thing...
Maybe that would be considered like they have no idea about what their game is....oh wait...Tetousek Tapadpek - DK tank argonien.
Eizhen - Templar DD magie / heal.
Vespide - NB DD magie.
Malicanth - NB DD stam.
Lycanth - DK DD stam.
Lirune - DK DD magie.
Mule Frites - Soso DD magie.
Slick Devlant - Soso DD stam.
Lofhlyn - Warden DD magie.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The damage was nerfed in two ways, and the ult itself was also nerfed.- They replaced the bash damage multiplier with a flat weapon/spell damage bonus. This alone would reduce the damage considerably, because multipliers scale far better than flat bonuses.
- They changed how bash damage was calculated to scale off of max resources in addition to weapon/spell damage, but they also changed how it scales with weapon/spell damage to keep the damage consistent. For bash to deal as much damage as it used to, ignoring the multiplier that they just replaced, you now have to invest around 10.5x the amount of weapon damage into max resource. For 5k weapon damage, you have to have 52.5k max stamina, in order to deal the same amount of damage you did before this change.
- When in the ult form, your bashes will always consume resources, even if you missed, so you'll now run out of resources considerably quicker, in addition to dealing far less damage.
Edited by jcm2606 on July 1, 2019 10:16AM13 -
biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭If bash now uses the highest stat (stam or mag) it will give more build options, if it still costs stam only why bother with the scaling on mag, it will be like an ashtray on a motorbike.0
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Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »Yeah I agree. It seems to me - and I hope i'm wrong, but it seems like a buff to stamnecro bash, which is already stupidly OP af. If it is a buff that's very concerning on the dev part.
Please tell me I'm wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord. StamNecro is stupidly strong yet the MagNecro seems to be weak af from what I'm hearing.ZOS_KNowak wrote: »The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible.
Lmao. Actually the full quote is laughable.
If it truly is buffing StamNecro bash, then I'm really concerned about ZoS Balancing team. So many questionable nerfs and changes.
You are wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord.Everything is viable3 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »Yeah I agree. It seems to me - and I hope i'm wrong, but it seems like a buff to stamnecro bash, which is already stupidly OP af. If it is a buff that's very concerning on the dev part.
Please tell me I'm wrong and it's not a buff to stam bashlord. StamNecro is stupidly strong yet the MagNecro seems to be weak af from what I'm hearing.ZOS_KNowak wrote: »The Necromancer class had the distinct advantage of being in development for a long period of time – this gave us a lot of room to iterate and polish the class as much as possible.
Lmao. Actually the full quote is laughable.
If it truly is buffing StamNecro bash, then I'm really concerned about ZoS Balancing team. So many questionable nerfs and changes.
Shouldn't it be quite a damage loss (and maybe even increased cost if they removed the 40% reduction from deadly bash) as they removed the 100% damage modifier?
Cost a lot more, but doesn't it scale with stam or magicka now? Whatever is higher? PLUS the passive gives Spell/Weapon damage bonus, so that PROBABLY gets buffed with Minor/Major Brutality/Sorcery in the equation.
Idk, we'll have to wait and see since ZoS probably isn't going to give clarity, and they've probably not QA'd it efficiently.
Lightningstaff, vicious death bashers incoming ?
Edited by Master_Kas on July 1, 2019 10:18AMEU | PC0 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have to really test it to see how it will scale now with the mixed stats scaling.
With the change to the SnB passive Bash damage increase, it propably will tone it down actually on the current Bash optimised stam setups, and buffs up the damage a bit on more hybridey setups (that have their other damage abilities lower obviously) depends on how it scales.. Shall see soon after the maintenance.
All will be just speculating before that.0 -
Berenhir✭✭✭✭✭
✭It should be a 60% damage decrease to ult bashers and an 8-10% overall DPS decrease to SnB builds weaving bash with their skills.PC EU - Ebonheart Pact - Gray Host - Death Recap -#zergfarming -2 -
ganzaeso✭✭✭✭I really don't like the changes to bash passive. They could have just made it not work with necro ult and left it at that.
This is going to ruin bash weaving rotations.(Math before coffee, except after 3, is not for me)3 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't like the changes to bash passive. They could have just made it not work with necro ult and left it at that.
This is going to ruin bash weaving rotations.
Knew this was gonna happen ever since Elsweyr PTS.. its how they roll. Instead of just directly reducing the Pummeling Bash damage base modifier i knew they will do something mystic mixed with a nerf to SnB passive. When tested it then at PTS and how can make it scale.. it almost felt like a trap that will soon get SnB nerfed when it hits Live. 0 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭Is this another 'balance fix' because of PVP?
I'm sure I was reading a thread recently about someone complaining Pummeling Goliath being too powerful in BGs?1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭daemondamian wrote: »Is this another 'balance fix' because of PVP?
I'm sure I was reading a thread recently about someone complaining Pummeling Goliath being too powerful in BGs?
Nobody actually uses bash for DPS in PVE, so the whole "PVE suffers at the hands of PVP balancing" debate is meaningless here.1 -
daemondamian✭✭✭✭daemondamian wrote: »Is this another 'balance fix' because of PVP?
I'm sure I was reading a thread recently about someone complaining Pummeling Goliath being too powerful in BGs?
Nobody actually uses bash for DPS in PVE, so the whole "PVE suffers at the hands of PVP balancing" debate is meaningless here.
I've never used it for dps in PVE either - I was just saying that I read a thread where someone was complaining about it being OP in PVP & now I've read it's been adjusted so regardless of whether PVE suffers at the hands of PVP balancing it might seem that the ability was adjusted because of how it operated in PVP.
Whether that carries onto other circumstances or situations (items, armor, skills, abilities, mechanics etc) within or across PVE & PVP in ESO is something I'll leave to others who have the time & energy to debate about
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