The DPS Salt Mine

Kalgert · June 2019

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

So I thought I'd do a dungeon with my girlfriend, hopefully so she and I can start doing dungeons together and have a good time. But the first dungeon we go to (Wayrest Sewers 2 on Veteran), after a while some dude wants to kick her out, because "I'm doing 80% DPS". This pretty much upset her, and it made her log out.

And this annoys both her and me. Her because she has some of the better magicka DPS gear (Mother's Sorrow, Julianos, courtesy from me), and even when she's trying her best, she doesn't do enough damage (According to that dilweed who was crying about doing 80% DPS). And it annoys me because I hate it when people try to make her upset (As it should be with any decent spouse).

So I thought about making this thread to vent a bit, and maybe see if anyone'd be interested in joining me and her. Preferably someone who won't throw tantrums over DPS.

Edit: PC EU, if anyone's wondering.

Kuramas9tails · June 2019

You should specify which platform and server.

Waffennacht · June 2019

Which platform, which server?

redspecter23 · June 2019

Veteran dungeons (even the easier ones) do have some dps requirements. If someone is doing 3 - 5k dps, I would probably either move on myself or ask that they be kicked. I have no idea how much damage she was doing, but from the sound of things, she may want to stick to either normal dungeons or stick with friends and guildmates who aren't so harsh on more casual players.

Do not join a random queue of players and expect them to want to carry a low dps character. Yes, they may be very kind and understanding and you'll have a great run, but going in with that expectation from a random stranger is setting yourself up for disappointment. Find 2 more like minded people and you can group up and have a lot of fun without the worry of strangers throwing their opinions at you.

Verbal_Earthworm · June 2019

Kalgert wrote: »

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

So I thought I'd do a dungeon with my girlfriend, hopefully so she and I can start doing dungeons together and have a good time. But the first dungeon we go to (Wayrest Sewers 2 on Veteran), after a while some dude wants to kick her out, because "I'm doing 80% DPS". This pretty much upset her, and it made her log out.

And this annoys both her and me. Her because she has some of the better magicka DPS gear (Mother's Sorrow, Julianos, courtesy from me), and even when she's trying her best, she doesn't do enough damage (According to that dilweed who was crying about doing 80% DPS). And it annoys me because I hate it when people try to make her upset (As it should be with any decent spouse).

So I thought about making this thread to vent a bit, and maybe see if anyone'd be interested in joining me and her. Preferably someone who won't throw tantrums over DPS.

Edit: PC EU, if anyone's wondering.

I am on PC-EU and tanked this dungeon today in a PUG.

I am happy to tank vet dungeons with any kind of dd and do the pledges dailly.

Yesterday I tanked vet blackheart haven with two dd, one was 810cp and the other was level 12.

My account name is @VerbalEarthworm if you ever need a tank.

WrathOfInnos · June 2019

Kalgert wrote: »

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

So I thought I'd do a dungeon with my girlfriend, hopefully so she and I can start doing dungeons together and have a good time. But the first dungeon we go to (Wayrest Sewers 2 on Veteran), after a while some dude wants to kick her out, because "I'm doing 80% DPS". This pretty much upset her, and it made her log out.

And this annoys both her and me. Her because she has some of the better magicka DPS gear (Mother's Sorrow, Julianos, courtesy from me), and even when she's trying her best, she doesn't do enough damage (According to that dilweed who was crying about doing 80% DPS). And it annoys me because I hate it when people try to make her upset (As it should be with any decent spouse).

So I thought about making this thread to vent a bit, and maybe see if anyone'd be interested in joining me and her. Preferably someone who won't throw tantrums over DPS.

The nice thing about queuing together is that it makes you unkickable (takes 3/4 yes votes). So yeah, people can be annoying, but throw some salt back and know that there’s nothing they can do except leave.

I’m guessing you were tanking? You might want to try being the other DPS so you can bring the average up without the tank and healer really knowing where all the damage is coming from. Or play a healer that helps with some of the DPS, if you both end up doing 40-50% of group damage combined then the other DPS won’t really have a reason to complain.

ghastley · June 2019

When you're playing as a team, one player isn't "doing 80%" because the damage recorded is a combination of the direct damage, plus the buffs and debuffs coming from the support. Or put another way, they wouldn't be doing so much without a lot of help.

However, when it's the tank saying that ...

iris56 · June 2019

That just comes with pugs, lots of people being jerks. If she's as inexperienced as it sounds though, why start with vet? Normal dungeons are there for a reason and you can learn a lot.

Honestly, back when I was pugging a lot on my tank (which I no longer have to do, thank goodness for guild friends) I would often leave dungeons due to low dps. I wouldn't kick, but since I was a tank it was pretty much insta dungeon after the 15 min reset anyway. Its not fair to ask everyone else to carry someone who isn't ready for the content unless they're guildies or friends and agree to it.

Truthfully, unless you can pull a bare minimum of 15 - 20k you shouldn't be in a vet dungeon as a dps. I'd raise that to a minimum of 25-30k for vet dlc. Even at those numbers I would expect the other dps to be carrying a bit. That dps may have been a jerk, but he wasn't out of line with expectations.

I would suggest you find a good social guild to run with. It will be a more enjoyable experiance for everyone and they will more than likely help both of you improve as well. Getting good build and rotation advice will make loads of difference and people willing to teach will make dungeons and improving so much more fun!

ArchMikem · June 2019

One stranger tries to kick her for not melting mobs and she takes it so hard she logs out.

The dude was an a-hole like every other dps monger but your GF should try and grow some thicker skin as well.

Itzmichi · June 2019

Kalgert wrote: »

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

So I thought I'd do a dungeon with my girlfriend, hopefully so she and I can start doing dungeons together and have a good time. But the first dungeon we go to (Wayrest Sewers 2 on Veteran), after a while some dude wants to kick her out, because "I'm doing 80% DPS". This pretty much upset her, and it made her log out.

And this annoys both her and me. Her because she has some of the better magicka DPS gear (Mother's Sorrow, Julianos, courtesy from me), and even when she's trying her best, she doesn't do enough damage (According to that dilweed who was crying about doing 80% DPS). And it annoys me because I hate it when people try to make her upset (As it should be with any decent spouse).

So I thought about making this thread to vent a bit, and maybe see if anyone'd be interested in joining me and her. Preferably someone who won't throw tantrums over DPS.

Edit: PC EU, if anyone's wondering.

She is old enough to handle her stuff herself made, she don't need you to vent for her. When it's a fact what's the problem with it? I mean I wouldn't want to have 20k dps in vWR2 and doing 80% of it. If you want to introduce people to the game do it with a group you used to play with, problem solved.

Darkenarlol · June 2019

hmmm...l2p?

i remember when on releace of imperial city dungeons

me and my wife went to vet wgt and after first trash

pack tank and heal have said that our dps is a no-go...

we've left that dung disappointed but started our first steps

in learning how to play "seriously"

well... it was a long road to our current state where we

have all dlc achieves / skins / multy flawless /50+k dps etc...

if you are really intrested in endgame - improve

if you don't think that improving effort is fun

then go to normals or loooong runs with friends of equal skill

or...improve

sevomd69 · June 2019

Why does anybody care if they're doing 80% of the deeps...its a soloable dungeon...unless they were hoping for a carry themselves...anything the other DPS gives is just icing on the cake...just my 2 cents...

MartiniDaniels · June 2019

Mobs in vet2 dungeons are really bulky, it is quite irritating to go there with less then 25k dps tbh...

redspecter23 · June 2019

sevomd69 wrote: »

Why does anybody care if they're doing 80% of the deeps...its a soloable dungeon...unless they were hoping for a carry themselves...anything the other DPS gives is just icing on the cake...just my 2 cents...

How is it a soloable dungeon for average players? If your dps is 15k (in my opinion way above the average pug already) there is a zero percent chance you're soloing that dungeon in any reasonable timeframe, even without taking into consideration the first boss which is mechanically unsoloable unless your dps is 80k+. Why does everybody seem to assume the "average" player here is 30k+ dps with over 810cp and 3+ years of experience?

Runefang · June 2019

No offense to your GF but if a DPS is doing 80% of the group damage in a veteran dungeon that's usually a bad sign. It means both the healer and other DPS are doing almost no damage between them.

MartiniDaniels · June 2019

Just my short story, I needed extra undaunted pledge yesterday to hit lvl9 at one repurposed toon which was a healer before, so I took some random gear from bank (5 pieces of julianos and other pieces of random sets with only 2-3 bonuses) and went as dps with ~20-25k and got to Darkshade Caverns 2.
Damn it was painful, also healer and tank were below cp100, so no buffs at all and tank was without major breach on taunt... first dps left even not waiting for first encounter and thanks god other dps which joined was okay so we completed it more or less fast and in HM (though I was mostly spamming BoL at last boss to keep group alive since healer was obviously under-leveled)... and in process other dps sometimes was stopping dpsing and looked how I deal alone.. damn I was so ashamed so I will never go to any vet dungeon as dps without properly built character.

Muzzick · June 2019

Why was wayrest 2 vet the first dungeon you decided to do together?

El_Borracho · June 2019

You can determine from the first mob pull in any dungeon how strong or weak the DPS is. I'm not defending the guy, as there are more tactful ways to find out what skill level other players are at, but it sucks getting into a vet dungeon and finding out you and you alone are the DPS.

Wayrest 2 is not the hardest but you do need good DPS to make it less of a slog. If I were you, I'd focus on running easier vet content until she gets her confidence or rotation up.

Munkfist · June 2019

A rule of thumb that I use for myself: If I'm not comfortable with the idea that I can carry my group in a vet dungeon, I will not pug it.

It's true that we can't expect everyone to pull big numbers, but it shouldn't fall on the other dps to carry that shortcoming. If you're not ready for vet dungeons, you're simply not ready. Seek some advice to help bring those numbers up, run in guild groups or with others that will explain the fights beforehand.

I've been on both ends, when I first started, I dragged groups down, then I parsed 4 hours a night, nearly every night to get some of the higher numbers on the server. I've been that 10-15% dps, and I've been the 80-95% dps, frustrating both ways, but as both, I preferred bettering my gameplay before pugging and being carried to a clear.

The other dps does have a right to be annoyed with it as it happens in pugs a lot, especially with pvpers filling the other dps slot and not nearly pulling their weight. If I'm told before hand that it's their first time, or that they're still working on their dps, I'm absolutely okay with it, but having the expectation that I should be carrying just because they can't hold their own leaves a bitter feeling.

Aznarb · June 2019

redspecter23 wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Why does anybody care if they're doing 80% of the deeps...its a soloable dungeon...unless they were hoping for a carry themselves...anything the other DPS gives is just icing on the cake...just my 2 cents...

How is it a soloable dungeon for average players? If your dps is 15k (in my opinion way above the average pug already) there is a zero percent chance you're soloing that dungeon in any reasonable timeframe, even without taking into consideration the first boss which is mechanically unsoloable unless your dps is 80k+. Why does everybody seem to assume the "average" player here is 30k+ dps with over 810cp and 3+ years of experience?

Hum, I've do 40k dps after 2 month of playing CP 350.
A friend have do more in 1 month playing and with a bit less CP.
So..

People won't be good if they don't even try.
Eso community is very productive and it's easy to fin a TON of guide to help you to understand how this game work.
I've start DG at 300 when I was sure about my DPS (my 1st char was a WW DK) to be sur to not slow down the other player to much. I wish more player do that too..

That said, player should not be that rude, but I can understand how frustrating it is when some low skill player come in vet with no clue about strat or how a rotation and weaving work.
And if you try to explain, their is two case :
- Player are happy to learn and do their best
- Player become frustrated and can't accept reality and leave/insult/don't read you.

Last : be careful with DPS meter add-on, most of them are totally inaccurate and most player don't even know how to read them.

Have a nice day.

El_Borracho · June 2019

Munkfist wrote: »

The other dps does have a right to be annoyed with it as it happens in pugs a lot, especially with pvpers filling the other dps slot and not nearly pulling their weight. If I'm told before hand that it's their first time, or that they're still working on their dps, I'm absolutely okay with it, but having the expectation that I should be carrying just because they can't hold their own leaves a bitter feeling.

Could not have said it better myself. I'm more than happy to help others get better, because at some point I was that guy diving into vet dungeons for the first time. There's no shame in announcing you are a noob or this is the first time in X dungeon. I made a point of that when I started to run vet DLC dungeons. Most of the time, people were cool and carried me. A few times, they said they were pressed for time and I gladly bowed out.

There's no shame in being green, its when you don't speak up when you end up irritating others.

Nogawd · June 2019

Meh, I see bot sides.

I get carrying your own wait, but complaining about a pug is just as bad. Why not run with your meta chasing elitist guild friends instead of pugging it?

MLGProPlayer · June 2019

ghastley wrote: »

When you're playing as a team, one player isn't "doing 80%" because the damage recorded is a combination of the direct damage, plus the buffs and debuffs coming from the support. Or put another way, they wouldn't be doing so much without a lot of help.

However, when it's the tank saying that ...

That's irrelevant as the other DD is also receiving those same buffs.

When someone is dealing <20% team damage as the DD, they definitely have work to do on their end. I don't kick since it's easy enough to carry the group on my own, but I wish they'd read a build guide or something to improve.

Each DD should be dealing around 40-45% damage in a properly balanced group (with the healer contributing the other 15-20%).

It's really not fair to expect someone to carry you, even if it's a PUG.

Mettaricana · June 2019

Kalgert wrote: »

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

So I thought I'd do a dungeon with my girlfriend, hopefully so she and I can start doing dungeons together and have a good time. But the first dungeon we go to (Wayrest Sewers 2 on Veteran), after a while some dude wants to kick her out, because "I'm doing 80% DPS". This pretty much upset her, and it made her log out.

And this annoys both her and me. Her because she has some of the better magicka DPS gear (Mother's Sorrow, Julianos, courtesy from me), and even when she's trying her best, she doesn't do enough damage (According to that dilweed who was crying about doing 80% DPS). And it annoys me because I hate it when people try to make her upset (As it should be with any decent spouse).

So I thought about making this thread to vent a bit, and maybe see if anyone'd be interested in joining me and her. Preferably someone who won't throw tantrums over DPS.

Edit: PC EU, if anyone's wondering.

Throw salt in their face me and my wife are a duo shes either my tank or healer and I'm solid dps. We recently did blessed crucible vet dude read the scroll got us wiped 16 times healer wasn't doing anything except spamming forcepulse and digging in his bag, the other dps was talkin non stop about how we were doing it wrong then tried to kick us while he and healer were dead we read scroll started fight and duo'ed lava queen grabbed helm told them both where they could stick it and *salty emoted their corpses* and left. Whole time their trash talking because we wouldn't res or wipe for them. Funniest part was we didn't need them and whole fight got easier becuase we had 2 less dead weight meat shields to carry.

Kel · June 2019

It's ironic that your first sentence was about a past thread of you complaining about low dps, but apparently because it was your girlfriend this time, it's somehow alright.

Kalgert wrote: »

Let me preface this that this is me venting at the DPS role, only this time, it's not me being salty about doing 18k DPS when the supposed standard is 25k

Can't have it both ways. If you're going to be salty about low dps, you should make sure your girlfriend can meet your own expectations before you drag her into vet 2 anything. Or, have the same expectations you had bringing your girlfriend with you for random pugs. But you can't be both. That's just hypocritical.

Royaji · June 2019

Nogawd wrote: »

but complaining about a pug is just as bad.

Ironic. Because this is exactly what OP is doing.

Zacuel · June 2019

You both sound...

Just awful.

idk · June 2019

I suggest finding a good social guild and get people to run with from there. You will end up running with the same group most of the time. A good active social guild is a good place to find people to learn the dungeons with. Of my three PvE guilds one has always been a social guild where a couple long time gaming friends are. When I run with them we fill the rest of our group from that guild, not one of my raiding guilds and it goes great.

There are a bunch of salty people in the game that blame others for challenges in this fight (oddly they are perfect). I have yet to see a strong player be one of those complaining (mostly because they find their groups in guild).

So go Guild. Avoid using the GF to form your group. Go with at least 3 in your premade so if someone plays the jerk or idiot card you have the power to kick them. No need to deal with such people when you have the power.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ghastley wrote: »

When you're playing as a team, one player isn't "doing 80%" because the damage recorded is a combination of the direct damage, plus the buffs and debuffs coming from the support. Or put another way, they wouldn't be doing so much without a lot of help.

However, when it's the tank saying that ...

Each DD should be dealing around 40-45% damage in a properly optimized group (with the healer contributing the other 15-20%).

Shoulda, coulda woulda in a balanced group but we are talking about a random group in a game that has an extremely wide range of skill competency. When using the GF you are specifically asking for randomness.

oddbasket · June 2019

A friend recently came back to the game, but he was only CP13 while I'm cp810 and we started playing together daily. I took him to easy vet pledges while under cp160 and once he hit it cp160, I bought him gear and it was vet all the way, only whenever I played with him, I took my best DPS despite have healer and tank characters to compensate.

Being the other DPS, no one is going to complain of doing more DPS than him, and if anyone didn't like having him there, they are free to leave. Once a healer left at the start, and we still completed vet hm on a 3 man team.

Noctus · June 2019

thats ***. i can pull ppl through any vet dungeon aslong as they do +15 k . the only problem i see are the oneshot mechanics(the longer the fight the higher the chance of one of those mechanics killing you). aslong as ppl can stay alive they can do it with low dps especially with a good tank.

Stebarnz · June 2019

Do normal until you learn the game, alternatively I have to waste my time carrying and it gets old.

30k dps is very easy, you can do with heavy attacks! I have no sympathy.