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5 Years, and Nightblade STILL gets Penalized for Sneak Speed
GrumpyDuckling
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Nightblade in-game description: Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive.
That's the description, and yet Nightblade gets penalized for sneak speed same as every other class. It's stupid that a class designed to "rely variously on stealth... and speed" has to burn a 5 piece set or become a vampire to, ya know... not get penalized for doing what the class description suggests. ZOS, this would be a good opportunity to add some class flavor in a way that makes sense.
Sneaking on my Nightblade should feel at least a little bit better than sneaking on my Dragonknight. Remove the sneak penalty from Nightblade.
That's the description, and yet Nightblade gets penalized for sneak speed same as every other class. It's stupid that a class designed to "rely variously on stealth... and speed" has to burn a 5 piece set or become a vampire to, ya know... not get penalized for doing what the class description suggests. ZOS, this would be a good opportunity to add some class flavor in a way that makes sense.
Sneaking on my Nightblade should feel at least a little bit better than sneaking on my Dragonknight. Remove the sneak penalty from Nightblade.
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blnchk✭✭✭✭✭I'm all for class flavour, but which existing passive would you be willing to give up for this?1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.12 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Try it?0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Try it?
What does that have to do with sneak speed penalty?Edited by GrumpyDuckling on June 27, 2019 8:48PM4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Try it?
What does that have to do with sneak speed penalty?
They aren't penalized, at all, point is they can move insanely fast while invisible, something no other class can do. And if you REALLY feel you need to be fastest, concealed weapon says hello.6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade, but as I see devs current vision, they see stamblade role as heavy with dark cloak and invisible magblade as actual fast shadow assassin role described in class description.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Try it?
What does that have to do with sneak speed penalty?
They aren't penalized, at all, point is they can move insanely fast while invisible, something no other class can do. And if you REALLY feel you need to be fastest, concealed weapon says hello.
That's while using cloak. I'm talking about sneak speed while crouched. Concealed Weapon would mean dropping Surprise Attack on a stamina Nightblade just to cut into the stupid sneak speed penalty -- not good design.3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade, but as I see devs current vision, they see stamblade role as heavy with dark cloak and invisible magblade as actual fast shadow assassin role described in class description.
Cloak isn't sneak speed penalty -- it's different than crouching.
Huh? How can you say the devs' vision is stamblade as heavy? Where is the evidence of that? And if you're talking about the Shadow Barrier passive then I don't know why you'd think that. If anything that better fits into their previous class change ideas of having a damage/tanking/healing skill line in each class (Shadow being the tanking one).Edited by GrumpyDuckling on June 27, 2019 9:00PM1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
Your point?
Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade, but as I see devs current vision, they see stamblade role as heavy with dark cloak and invisible magblade as actual fast shadow assassin role described in class description.
Cloak isn't sneak speed penalty -- it's different than crouching.
Huh? How can you say the devs' vision is stamblade as heavy? Where is the evidence of that? And if you're talking about the Shadow Barrier passive then I don't know why you'd think that. If anything that better fits into their previous class change ideas of having a damage/tanking/healing skill line in each class (Shadow being the tanking one).
Stamblade is no longer BiS melee dps in PVE, their place is taken by stamcros. Given that and also knowing that magblade is nerfed to oblivion, but stamnecros still require minor savagery, ZOS re-purposed PVE nightblades to tanks. Why??
Simply look at this list of changes in one (1) patch for class which was considered worst tanks for long:
- sustainable 100% minor protection
- overall dark cloak heal cost/efficiency buffed +50%
- true immobilization cc for 5 seconds
- 15% free mitigation for slotted and used in initiation relentless focus
- snare/immobilization removal on phantasmal escape
Yeah, some people are whining that NB lost 3% burst heal of already bad burst heal.. but in trials this is healer's job to burst heal tank and in majority of cases HoT from Dark cloak + absurdly high mitigation (if properly buffed) allows new NB tanks to don't require burst heal that often. And there are other ways to burst heal like spamming pots which is only natural to NB support to generate ulti as well as use bone wall etc...
Meanwhile magblade is totally out of place in PVE, his PVP efficiency was buffed, magblades are more durable for melee range stealth assassinations now.1 -
LordTareq✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.6 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
This might be the final nail... lets do it! Lol3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.3 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
There’s a set for this RP adventure you’re on.
Otherwise- no sir.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
There’s a set for this RP adventure you’re on.
Otherwise- no sir.
Great argument -- burn a 5 piece set to remove the sneak penalty from the class that the game describes as relying on stealth and speed. Apparently you didn't read the first post -- I covered that nonsense already.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
Come on, it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different, this includes ton of game mechanics not only speed. But they are both stealth. So via cloak and concealed weapon you are faster in stealth then any other class, all like in class description, I don't see inconsistencies here.5 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Concealed works in crouch no? There you go, fastest crouch Speed avaiable of all classes.
If we make ability/passive changes based on class descriptions can dks get an ability that shatters tamriel please? Class description states that they can shatter the world around them.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »Concealed works in crouch no? There you go, fastest crouch Speed avaiable of all classes.
If we make ability/passive changes based on class descriptions can dks get an ability that shatters tamriel please? Class description states that they can shatter the world around them.
So Stamblades have to give up Surprise Attack just to reduce the penalty? That's stupid design.
DKs have rock-themed and dragon abilities that match that description, so yes my DK "pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
Dragon Leap
Stonefist
Obsidian Shield
Talons0 -
Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
So Stamblades have to give up Surprise Attack just to reduce the penalty? That's stupid design.
DKs have rock-themed and dragon abilities that match that description, so yes my DK "pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
Dragon Leap
Stonefist
Obsidian Shield
Talons
You have the Option to reduce the Penalty/ increase your Speed, you not wanting to take it? Well you can get it from other means like sets and Vampire, I personally wouldnt mind concealed effect being added to a passive and concealed getting some other Change but realistically I dont see it Happening. There is much more Pressing concerns regarding abilities and passives.Politeness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
Come on, it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different, this includes ton of game mechanics not only speed. But they are both stealth. So via cloak and concealed weapon you are faster in stealth then any other class, all like in class description, I don't see inconsistencies here.
If it was so obvious to you how come you went off on an irrelevant-to-the-topic post about magblade cloak speed? See posts #5 and #10 (your own posts). You said:
"Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat... Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade..."
This thread was never about cloak speed -- yet you initially failed to recognize that and attempted to use cloak speed as a reason not to remove the sneak speed penalty. Come on, you said it yourself -- "it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different." Then why use cloak speed as your argument? Do you see how it looks like you don't understand the difference?0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
So Stamblades have to give up Surprise Attack just to reduce the penalty? That's stupid design.
DKs have rock-themed and dragon abilities that match that description, so yes my DK "pounds, shatters and physically alters the world around them."
Dragon Leap
Stonefist
Obsidian Shield
Talons
You have the Option to reduce the Penalty/ increase your Speed, you not wanting to take it? Well you can get it from other means like sets and Vampire, I personally wouldnt mind concealed effect being added to a passive and concealed getting some other Change but realistically I dont see it Happening. There is much more Pressing concerns regarding abilities and passives.
There shouldn't be a sneak speed penalty for Nightblades in the first place. It's bad design to build a class for stealth and speed, penalize its sneak speed, then create a half-baked way to partially reduce that penalty at the cost of the stamina version of that class giving up its effective spammable. It's such nonsense.
If there are more "pressing concerns regarding abilities and passives" then ZOS can simply remove the sneak speed penalty from Nightblades and move on to the others. It's really simple.Edited by GrumpyDuckling on June 28, 2019 2:37AM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
Come on, it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different, this includes ton of game mechanics not only speed. But they are both stealth. So via cloak and concealed weapon you are faster in stealth then any other class, all like in class description, I don't see inconsistencies here.
If it was so obvious to you how come you went off on an irrelevant-to-the-topic post about magblade cloak speed? See posts #5 and #10 (your own posts). You said:
"Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat... Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade..."
This thread was never about cloak speed -- yet you initially failed to recognize that and attempted to use cloak speed as a reason not to remove the sneak speed penalty. Come on, you said it yourself -- "it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different." Then why use cloak speed as your argument? Do you see how it looks like you don't understand the difference?
Your main argument is that class description have words stealth and speed. Cloak is stealth without speed penalty, concealed weapon is extra speed. And stamblade is in good position now both in PVP and PVE, I don't see point for buffing it that way. Especially given fact that medium stamblades are using cloak even more successfully then magblades and don't have problems with mobility.2 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat.
My horse is faster than a sprinting dragonknight, so nerf sorcerers?
OP wanted free dark stalker embedded in class. I say no, nightblade already have means to be fastest class in invisibility, as described in class description. But of course, it's just my opinion (as NB main), you may disagree or don't understand indirect points, that's ok.
You don't seem to realize that invisibility and sneaking (crouching) are different. Removing the sneak speed penalty really wouldn't change Magblade much at all -- they don't crouch when they want to go super fast with cloak.
Since you call yourself a Nightblade main, I'm surprised I have to inform you on this.
Come on, it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different, this includes ton of game mechanics not only speed. But they are both stealth. So via cloak and concealed weapon you are faster in stealth then any other class, all like in class description, I don't see inconsistencies here.
If it was so obvious to you how come you went off on an irrelevant-to-the-topic post about magblade cloak speed? See posts #5 and #10 (your own posts). You said:
"Permacloaked magblade with major/minor expedition, steed, concealed weapon and 3 swift jewels almost hits speed cap without sprinting, no other class is capable of such feat... Point is that concealed weapon gives you free unique huge boost to speed while stealthed / cloaked and cloak doesn't penalize your speed. Yeah it's all not that great for stamblade..."
This thread was never about cloak speed -- yet you initially failed to recognize that and attempted to use cloak speed as a reason not to remove the sneak speed penalty. Come on, you said it yourself -- "it is obvious to everyone that cloak and sneak are completely different." Then why use cloak speed as your argument? Do you see how it looks like you don't understand the difference?
Your main argument is that class description have words stealth and speed. Cloak is stealth without speed penalty, concealed weapon is extra speed. And stamblade is in good position now both in PVP and PVE, I don't see point for buffing it that way. Especially given fact that medium stamblades are using cloak even more successfully then magblades and don't have problems with mobility.
Stealth and speed readily available for basically 1/2 the class, though? You mention concealed weapon, but you must see how ridiculous it is that the stamina version of the class has to sacrifice their single-target spammable in order to partially cut into the sneak speed penalty -- or become a vampire, or burn a 5 piece set. That's just poor design.
And I didn't even touch on the Master Assassin passive, which has a stun that ONLY works when attacking from sneak -- strongly suggesting that sneak be part of the class' overall toolkit in order to activate that part of the passive... and yet there is a penalty against getting into position to activate that passive for the ONLY class in the game to gain benefits directly tied to sneaking.Edited by GrumpyDuckling on June 28, 2019 3:00AM0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As a Stamblade, you have access to other spammable weapon skills, so the loss of surprise attack is not that big of a deal. Use flurry or flying daggers if you are a DW spec, dizzying swing if you are a 2h, heroic slash if you are s/b or snipe if you are a bow build. Easy. Suprize attack is not that special now since the loss of major fracture, the 5% armor pen is at best 910 in pve, usually much less.1 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭The description says speed and stealth indeed. But it never said "fast while stealthed".
Nightblades got cloak for stealth and shadow image for mobility/speed.
The word "stealth" in the description clearly means cloak and not the sneaking wich is avaible to every class. Stop making random Statements for youself to move with light speed while sneaking. It is already a very powerfull game mechanic and If you want to invest in it (fast movement) you should do so (Vamp, armor Sets, juwelry trait, pots). Dont expect to get FREE sneak speed without suffering anything for it.3 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
We should move a lot faster in stealth agreedGrumpyDuckling wrote: »Nightblade in-game description: Nightblades are adventurers and opportunists with a gift for getting in and out of trouble. Relying variously on stealth, blades, and speed, Nightblades thrive on conflict and misfortune, trusting to their luck and cunning to survive.
That's the description, and yet Nightblade gets penalized for sneak speed same as every other class. It's stupid that a class designed to "rely variously on stealth... and speed" has to burn a 5 piece set or become a vampire to, ya know... not get penalized for doing what the class description suggests. ZOS, this would be a good opportunity to add some class flavor in a way that makes sense.
Sneaking on my Nightblade should feel at least a little bit better than sneaking on my Dragonknight. Remove the sneak penalty from Nightblade.
1
