Inner FIre is too expensive

Jeremy · June 2019

I believe one of the reasons more people don't play as a tank on this game is the role itself is too restrictive when it comes to build options. One small way to help with that would be to make inner fire cheaper to use (and I mean way more cheaper). Currently this move is just too difficult to sustain - especially if the tank is consistently using other magicka-based abilities and there are multiple enemies that need to be taunted.

AcadianPaladin · June 2019

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

Jeremy · June 2019

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

Currently, the only use I've found for it is niche for certain boss fights where a range taunt is preferable. Otherwise it's just way too expensive to justify using regularly as my taunt.

It doesn't surprise me that other abilities on your Dragon Knight and Sorcerer are too expensive as well. The developers of this game seem to believe tanks just have endless amounts of magicka for some weird reason and I don't really understand why. Even if you build to have lots of magicka recovery these abilities will still decimate your bar if used consistently (as they need to be as you point out). So it's probably just a general miscalculation in development when it comes to tanks. Either that or they actually expect tanks on this game to invest heavily into magicka.... which in my experience just isn't feasible.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

. Otherwise it's just way too expensive to justify using regularly as my taunt.

It is not meant to be a main taunt, it is back up for pierce armor, which is your main taunt. Inner fire is meant for the couple of times you need it for range adds that you can't pull.

As for mag recovery, balance and deep thoughts render that a moo point.

Jeremy · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. Otherwise it's just way too expensive to justify using regularly as my taunt.

It is not meant to be a main taunt, it is back up for pierce armor, which is your main taunt. Inner fire is meant for the couple of times you need it for range adds that you can't pull.

As for mag recovery, balance and deep thoughts render that a moo point.

I believe it needs to be retooled so it can be used as a magicka-based main taunt. And it doesn't matter how much magicka recovery you have. If you use this spell as your main taunt it will drain you way too fast. It's just not consistent with the play style of tanks on this game. It's basically just a niche ability for rare situations where a ranged taunt is preferable.

Noldornir · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

. Otherwise it's just way too expensive to justify using regularly as my taunt.

It is not meant to be a main taunt, it is back up for pierce armor, which is your main taunt. Inner fire is meant for the couple of times you need it for range adds that you can't pull.

As for mag recovery, balance and deep thoughts render that a moo point.

I believe it needs to be retooled so it can be used as a magicka-based main taunt. And it doesn't matter how much magicka recovery you have. If you use this spell as your main taunt it will drain you way too fast. It's just not consistent with the play style of tanks on this game. It's basically just a niche ability for rare situations where a ranged taunt is preferable.

I agree. I hardly even slot it (chains are free on big guys, they come THEN i puncture them).
Should I use inner fire instead i WOULD need to puncture ANYWAY (for debuffs).

In dungeons there are a couple places where it comes in handy (unchainable ranged adds that hits hard) but that's rly niche IMHO.

I would rework the skill that instead of giving the sinergy it gives major fracture/breach just like puncture does. That would be "puncture" for staff-users tanks

Royaji · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

The developers of this game seem to believe tanks just have endless amounts of magicka for some weird reason

Maybe, just maybe if there was a skill that would give you a lot of magicka for, I don't know, health? Maybe it can have Major resistances too? Oh well... Such a shame endless magicka is not a thing, right?

Swen_von_Walhallion · June 2019

inner fire cannot be main taunt for one reason and its major fracture and major breach on pierce. And if you add this debuff on inner fire it will be cost moch more then nov bc you get sepl with big advatage and without disatvantage. Piearce is cheap and very poverfull tool, but its balanced by thing you must have 1h/s eqviped and its close range

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

.I believe it needs to be retooled so it can be used as a magicka-based main taunt.

But, like, why?

. And it doesn't matter how much magicka recovery you have.

You do know what Balance and Deep Thoughts are right?

idk · June 2019

I do not understand OP's comments about inner fire. I have inner fire on all my tanks, just as a great many tanks in this game, and I seem to do just fine. It has been a staple skill for the tank build for many years. Of course tanks tend to build for sustain since Morrowind and that may be something OP is missing in their build. Skills should not be altered for an individual build.

Also, the reason most players play DPS is the same reason they do in pretty much every game that has tanks, healers, and dps. This game is really no different. Well, it is no different other than skilled tanks tend to avoid GF since the talent pool in ESO dips pretty low.

Grianasteri · June 2019

Just a wee aside.

We all know Piece Armour is the main taunting tool, which is accepted as automatically required due to the added debuf to enemy resistances.

However with the advent of the Necromancer class, which has a (ranged) AOE debuf to enemy resistances, this opens up the possibility of not even slotting Pierce Armour and instead opting for Inner Fire and/or a Frost staff and specking for range instead.

I do agree Inner Fire is expensive for a main taunt.

f047ys3v3n · June 2019

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

Koolio · June 2019

Build Diversity

Spam 1 Taunt 80000000000000000 times

Jeremy · June 2019

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting to know. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

Jeremy · June 2019

Koolio wrote: »

Build Diversity

Spam 1 Taunt 80000000000000000 times

The diversity would come into play in the sense there would be two options for a main taunt - one magical and one stamina.

Jeremy · June 2019

idk wrote: »

I do not understand OP's comments about inner fire. I have inner fire on all my tanks, just as a great many tanks in this game, and I seem to do just fine. It has been a staple skill for the tank build for many years. Of course tanks tend to build for sustain since Morrowind and that may be something OP is missing in their build. Skills should not be altered for an individual build.

Also, the reason most players play DPS is the same reason they do in pretty much every game that has tanks, healers, and dps. This game is really no different. Well, it is no different other than skilled tanks tend to avoid GF since the talent pool in ESO dips pretty low.

It really doesn't matter what someone's build is. The cost of inner fire is too high regardless. There should be a magicka taunt that isn't so expensive. I would also be willing to bet "my build" has more magicka recovery than your's.

Just because someone disagrees with you about something, that doesn't automatically mean their is something wrong with their build. And while it's true what you say that tanks are always a minority - it's more a problem on this game. Tanks can be nearly impossible to find for higher end content. And I believe expanding build options would be one way to go about alleviating that problem.

If there is a good reason why Inner Fire is so expensive I haven't read it yet.

Jeremy · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

.I believe it needs to be retooled so it can be used as a magicka-based main taunt.

But, like, why?

. And it doesn't matter how much magicka recovery you have.

You do know what Balance and Deep Thoughts are right?

I thought I made that clear in my post. So it could be used as a reliable taunt.

Yes, I'm aware of what Deep Thoughts is. But I'm not sure what that has to do with my thread.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Jeremy · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

Jeremy · June 2019

Swen_von_Walhallion wrote: »

inner fire cannot be main taunt for one reason and its major fracture and major breach on pierce. And if you add this debuff on inner fire it will be cost moch more then nov bc you get sepl with big advatage and without disatvantage. Piearce is cheap and very poverfull tool, but its balanced by thing you must have 1h/s eqviped and its close range

So pierce would have fracture/breach and inner fire would have range. Sounds balanced to me. Each taunt would have it's benefits. There is no need to make one so expensive.

Jeremy · June 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

The developers of this game seem to believe tanks just have endless amounts of magicka for some weird reason

Maybe, just maybe if there was a skill that would give you a lot of magicka for, I don't know, health? Maybe it can have Major resistances too? Oh well... Such a shame endless magicka is not a thing, right?

Why would a tank want to pointlessly blow all their magicka taunting monsters so they could slot an extra skill to trade health for magicka when instead they could just use a cheaper taunt that is easy to sustain and keep all their health and the ability to heal themselves in the process?

It just doesn't make any sense from a design standpoint,

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was March 03 2015.. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1577 days, that saying the cost from those first 334 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense? for 79% of the games life, the skill has had the same cost.

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

Royaji · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

The developers of this game seem to believe tanks just have endless amounts of magicka for some weird reason

Maybe, just maybe if there was a skill that would give you a lot of magicka for, I don't know, health? Maybe it can have Major resistances too? Oh well... Such a shame endless magicka is not a thing, right?

Why would a tank want to pointlessly blow all their magicka taunting monsters so they could slot an extra skill to trade health for magicka when instead they could just use a cheaper taunt that is easy to sustain and keep all their health and the ability to heal themselves in the process?

Because it works? Balance is pretty much endless magicka so why not use it? Even tanks who use that cheaper taunt utilise it so why wouldn't you use it on a magicka intensive build?

Jeremy · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was 03/17/2015. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1553 days, that saying the cost from those first 357 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense?

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

That poster was referring to the initial cost of the skill back when the game first came out. Not a year later after it was changed. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 2015 after it was changed as if that is relevant to what he was saying. It's not.

As to your second point - I never said It was "having trouble" with it. The cost of it is prohibitive to the point I rarely trouble with it all. That's the point of this thread. It costs too much for tanks to trouble themselves with and is basically just a niche skill as a result. That's what I believe needs to change. This thread has nothing to do with me or any build. It has to do with the fact this skill simply costs too much when compared to its counterpart.

Jeremy · June 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I'm not going to disagree with you. Rather, let me mention a couple points that may be relevant and that I have found helpful. Inner fire provides for both a mag or stam morph and that choice can help manage/balance stam/mag usage. Similarly, DK tanks can pull with chains using mag or use silver leash to pull using stam. Those kinds of choices, again, help tanks manage and balance the demands on their resources. Finally, I find that trying to pull a foe in then melee taunt it can be another alternative sometimes to using the ranged taunt.

What I find much more frustrating than the cost of my ranged taunt is the short duration of lock down skills like DK talons or sorc encase/prison. That short duration not only lets ranged foes escape all too often but really eats magicka.

The developers of this game seem to believe tanks just have endless amounts of magicka for some weird reason

Maybe, just maybe if there was a skill that would give you a lot of magicka for, I don't know, health? Maybe it can have Major resistances too? Oh well... Such a shame endless magicka is not a thing, right?

Why would a tank want to pointlessly blow all their magicka taunting monsters so they could slot an extra skill to trade health for magicka when instead they could just use a cheaper taunt that is easy to sustain and keep all their health and the ability to heal themselves in the process?

Because it works? Balance is pretty much endless magicka so why not use it? Even tanks who use that cheaper taunt utilise it so why wouldn't you use it on a magicka intensive build?

I've never seen a tank blow all their magicka spamming inner fire just so they can spend their health getting their magicka back. That sounds pointless to me - so I'm not surprised I"ve never seen it.

YOu know what also works? (and much better). Just using pierce armor to taunt.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was 03/17/2015. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1553 days, that saying the cost from those first 357 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense?

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

That poster was referring to the initial cost of the skill back when the game first came out. Not a year later after it was changed. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 2015 after it was changed as if that is relevant to what he was saying. It's not.

As to your second point - I never said It was "having trouble" with it. The cost of it is prohibitive to the point I rarely trouble with it all. That's the point of this thread. It costs too much for tanks to trouble themselves and is basically just a niche skill. That's what I believe needs to change. This thread has nothing to do with me or any build. It has to do with the fact this skill simply costs too much when compared to its counterpart.

they are used for different things, one is range and one is not. one has necessary debuffs, one does not. you are not supposed to use the range one all the time. not sure what makes you feel like you need to be able too. next you will be saying that ice staff heavys need to be instant.

Jeremy · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was 03/17/2015. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1553 days, that saying the cost from those first 357 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense?

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

That poster was referring to the initial cost of the skill back when the game first came out. Not a year later after it was changed. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 2015 after it was changed as if that is relevant to what he was saying. It's not.

As to your second point - I never said It was "having trouble" with it. The cost of it is prohibitive to the point I rarely trouble with it all. That's the point of this thread. It costs too much for tanks to trouble themselves and is basically just a niche skill. That's what I believe needs to change. This thread has nothing to do with me or any build. It has to do with the fact this skill simply costs too much when compared to its counterpart.

they are used for different things, one is range and one is not. one has necessary debuffs, one does not. you are not supposed to use the range one all the time. not sure what makes you feel like you need to be able too. next you will be saying that ice staff heavys need to be instant.

And I don't understand why you feel the spell needs to be so expensive either - or why you feel people shouldn't be using ranged taunts often. You've yet to give a reason for either of those feelings. So neither of us understand each other it seems.

Giving Ice Staff heavies a quicker taunt would also be a step in the right direction. Though it would be easier to simply make Inner Fire cheap enough to use as a consistent taunt. There is no good reason why it's so expensive.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was 03/17/2015. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1553 days, that saying the cost from those first 357 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense?

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

That poster was referring to the initial cost of the skill back when the game first came out. Not a year later after it was changed. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 2015 after it was changed as if that is relevant to what he was saying. It's not.

As to your second point - I never said It was "having trouble" with it. The cost of it is prohibitive to the point I rarely trouble with it all. That's the point of this thread. It costs too much for tanks to trouble themselves and is basically just a niche skill. That's what I believe needs to change. This thread has nothing to do with me or any build. It has to do with the fact this skill simply costs too much when compared to its counterpart.

they are used for different things, one is range and one is not. one has necessary debuffs, one does not. you are not supposed to use the range one all the time. not sure what makes you feel like you need to be able too. next you will be saying that ice staff heavys need to be instant.

And I don't understand why you feel the spell needs to be so expensive either - or why you feel people shouldn't be using ranged taunts often. You've yet to give a reason for either of those feelings. So neither of us understand each other it seems.

Giving Ice Staff heavies a quicker taunt would also be a step in the right direction. Though it would be easier to simply make Inner Fire cheap enough to use as a consistent taunt. There is no good reason why it's so expensive.

okay. look at it this way, with inner fire you have a 2463 square meter area to taunt in, with pierce armor, you have a 78 meter area to taunt in, that is 31.5 times the area to taunt, for only 2.3 the cost( with inner rage, inner beast is 2 times the cost of pierce armor). don't you thing that makes it a steal?

zvavi · June 2019

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

I agree that inner fire is crazy high in cost given that all it does is taunt. The original developers agreed as well. Inner fire used to be very, very, cheap.

The net result of the change (was this 1.6 ish?) is that tanks no longer can use inner fire to quickly round up adds in trash pulls. This was the norm pre-change. You initially taunted and positioned whatever couldn't be chained with inner fire and than pierced it all for the 2nd taunt. Now tanks do some combination of "light" taunting with chains or caltrops and then run around like crazy trying to get actual taunts on things which can be tricky once enemies get in close quarters and start to have overlapping hit boxes.

The resultant change in how things are done means that often a "light" taunted enemy switches agro, in many trash pulls dps hold off and just sit and wait a while before entering the fray for the tank to run about. Inner fire is now really only used as a back up taunt for resource emergencies and not as unique skill with substantially different utility and tactics.

The inner fire mega cost increase (it many times over I think), was a rather strange and confusing change just as frost staff taunt was. I don't think you know who ever played tank though. I always remember him playing heals. I'm not sure he understood the basics of of how tanks handled most situations when he made the decisions on balance.

This is interesting. The original developers made a lot more sense on a lot of things - so this doesn't really surprise me.

No idea what he is talking about, inner fire has had 4k mag cost since tamriel unlimited update, that is 2015.

Some of us have been playign since 2014. I imagine he is one of those.

we are talking less the a year here, the game was released April 4, 2014 and tamriel unlimited was 03/17/2015. does it make sense to you that "many times" times applies here, when the cost has been the same for the last 1553 days, that saying the cost from those first 357 days is the correct one and the one that makes the most sense?

i also just don't understand how you are having so much trouble with the current cost, either you are over taunting or you are trying to taunt all the adds, which is not the tanks job, you are only supposed to taunt the 3-6 most important ones (read 2h guys and s/b guys) and the rest you can just ignore, their damage to your team is not enough to matter.

and there is also the fact that you can use stamina on the skill too, i just swapped the skill to use stam, as i was always at a surplus to stam on my breton tankcer.

again, all my tank have 20k+ max stam and mag, planty to taunt and pull and hold mobs still, when i need to. what does your build look like?

That poster was referring to the initial cost of the skill back when the game first came out. Not a year later after it was changed. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 2015 after it was changed as if that is relevant to what he was saying. It's not.

As to your second point - I never said It was "having trouble" with it. The cost of it is prohibitive to the point I rarely trouble with it all. That's the point of this thread. It costs too much for tanks to trouble themselves and is basically just a niche skill. That's what I believe needs to change. This thread has nothing to do with me or any build. It has to do with the fact this skill simply costs too much when compared to its counterpart.

they are used for different things, one is range and one is not. one has necessary debuffs, one does not. you are not supposed to use the range one all the time. not sure what makes you feel like you need to be able too. next you will be saying that ice staff heavys need to be instant.

And I don't understand why you feel the spell needs to be so expensive either - or why you feel people shouldn't be using ranged taunts often. You've yet to give a reason for either of those feelings. So neither of us understand each other it seems.

Giving Ice Staff heavies a quicker taunt would also be a step in the right direction. Though it would be easier to simply make Inner Fire cheap enough to use as a consistent taunt. There is no good reason why it's so expensive.

okay. look at it this way, with inner fire you have a 2463 square meter area to taunt in, with pierce armor, you have a 78 meter area to taunt in, that is 31.5 times the area to taunt, for only 2.3 the cost( with inner rage, inner beast is 2 times the cost of pierce armor). don't you thing that makes it a steal?

Give it major debuffs and i will agree.

MartiniDaniels · June 2019

I agree completely, it's simply stupidly expensive for low effect it brings. It should cost twice less imo.

yodased · June 2019

If you use it as your main taunt then your main attribute should be magic and you should be using an ice staff anyway. You regain magic by having a resto back bar and a s+b front bar.

If you want to use it as your main taunt then you totes mcgotes can you just build around it.

I tank/heal every dungeon in the game up to tier 6 on a magplar with spc and worm so its not impossible to do, if I can tank and heal the thing you can tank it with magic.