Just putting my vote of disappointment in for the Necro

Ditronus · June 2019

Like many others, almost every Necromancer I've met in-game, I'm disappointed that the developers couldn't find a way to make permanent or at least semi-permanent pets work. Tossing exploding floating skulls or summoning a buggy exploding (?) skeleton for 3 seconds every 3 seconds just isn't satisfying or fits what a Necromancer has been in Elder Scroll games. I would've loved having a two-handed ax-wielding zombie or skeleton by my side, cleaving enemies in its wake, that interacted with the corpse system in some way, such as picking up corpses to increase its duration/strength. Give stamina players more class-themed abilities instead of requiring Necromancers to use the same tired bow skills to do vet-viable dps; it's just bad design.

It feels like the developers hid behind the excuse of Necromancy being frowned upon in ES lore, as if NPC townsfolk who are constantly being threatened by daedric forces, or more specifically Molag Baal, in this game are perfectly fine with the idea of scamps, clannfears, and winged twilights running around their towns. To not give Necromancers a pet for "lore" reasons is inconsistent and lame.

The fact that the developers don't have a track record of changing or adding to class skill lines often or at all doesn't really make me want to stick around and see if they listen to feedback regarding this issue. There's a lot of feedback there. Until then, I'll keep fighting the plethora of NPC necromancers that continue to summon skeleton warriors and zombies in the Elswyer questline, and put on a happy face until I let my subscription run out for now.

iAmLife · June 2019

That was alot to read, so I didn't read... But here's my thoughts on it. Become a nightblade my friend, life will be more enjoyable.

DBZVelena · June 2019

if you want to play a necro with permanent pets, go play gw2.
ESO already has a class with perma pets. doing it again wouldn't be interesting.
So they did temp pets. imo a fresh look on the class that every other game has as a dude with a skeleton army.

Red_Feather · June 2019

I can't help but think that it could have been great. It doesn't change anything except combat is little different. Outside of combat not a thing changes. I don't fight 100% of my time in ESO, not even 50% of my time. I don't need to make another character for this.

Noxavian · June 2019

DBZVelena wrote: »

if you want to play a necro with permanent pets, go play gw2.
ESO already has a class with perma pets. doing it again wouldn't be interesting.
So they did temp pets. imo a fresh look on the class that every other game has as a dude with a skeleton army.

See, that would be all fine and dandy and all, but they ARENT temp pets. They cannot be targeted and do not have HP, they are basically glorified dots. Summoning an actual temp pet could be cool.

And I dunno, it seems their variety department is a bit lacking. I dont exactly think 1 ranged skeleton and 1 healing ghost is that, well, dynamic. Especially when every necromancer and their mother in-game can summon skeletons with shields/swords, zombies, spirits that actually attack you, etc.

Delparis · June 2019

Play Pet Sorc, best for cheesing every single content in the game

Massacre_Wurm · June 2019

No target based dots is my main problem with necro.
Can we get some cursy-drainy-debuffy stuff at least ? ( aside from ult ) ?

Noxavian · June 2019

Ditronus wrote: »

Like many others, almost every Necromancer I've met in-game, I'm disappointed that the developers couldn't find a way to make permanent or at least semi-permanent pets work. Tossing exploding floating skulls or summoning a buggy exploding (?) skeleton for 3 seconds every 3 seconds just isn't satisfying or fits what a Necromancer has been in Elder Scroll games. I would've loved having a two-handed ax-wielding zombie or skeleton by my side, cleaving enemies in its wake, that interacted with the corpse system in some way, such as picking up corpses to increase its duration/strength. Give stamina players more class-themed abilities instead of requiring Necromancers to use the same tired bow skills to do vet-viable dps; it's just bad design.

It feels like the developers hid behind the excuse of Necromancy being frowned upon in ES lore, as if NPC townsfolk who are constantly being threatened by daedric forces, or more specifically Molag Baal, in this game are perfectly fine with the idea of scamps, clannfears, and winged twilights running around their towns. To not give Necromancers a pet for "lore" reasons is inconsistent and lame.

The fact that the developers don't have a track record of changing or adding to class skill lines often or at all doesn't really make me want to stick around and see if they listen to feedback regarding this issue. There's a lot of feedback there. Until then, I'll keep fighting the plethora of NPC necromancers that continue to summon skeleton warriors and zombies in the Elswyer questline, and put on a happy face until I let my subscription run out for now.

This is basically my entire take on the situation too tbh.

I subbed and bought Elsweyr, wanting to give the game and new necro another go. However, I soon realized that for some reason, the one class where it makes sense to have summoning skill lines/actual cool summon mechanics (Why they didnt make a tanking line where you summon a big flesh atronach and you give it buffs/healing and it does the taunting for you is completely beyond me.) doesn't have any. Even the "temp" summons are just dots and cant even be killed from what ive seen. It feels really bad to supposedly "be" a necromancer, yet all of the NPCs I fight summon more creatures than I can. So for all of those that say "But necros arent SuPpOseD to summon stuff", you're dead wrong. Why is every basic necromancer and their long line of relatives summoning skellies with shields, huge flesh atronachs, buffing them with beams of dark energy? Much like vampires, why are the NPC counter parts way more cool than the PC?

Also for those that for some unlogical reason think basing Necromancer off summons wouldn't fit or be unique, they could of EASILY. AND I MEAN EASILY. Made the corpse mechanic the bread and butter for the necro's summoning mechanic. You have 3 corpses in 1 area? Use this ability to summon a medium-level undead. You have 5-10 corpses in one area? Summon a HUGE flesh atronach to attack for you, or an elite fully armored skeleton. It's as if they tried SO HARD to make a class that very clearly and in-lore is about summoning, not about summoning. While at the same time giving all necromancers you fight actual cool what-should-of-been class abilities.

Why they didn't have the "big new thing" for necro be the fact they can summon stuff using corpses and dark magic is, once again, beyond me. Feels like they kinda forgot what necromancers were in ES, and considering LITERALLY EVERY NECRO NPC IVE FOUGHT can summon more, cooler creatures than I can, what's the point? Might as well stare at normie npcs that can do cooler *** than me all day.

CambionDaemon · June 2019

Give the Necromancer the permanent pets from Sorcerer, I would be happy then.

Nephthys · June 2019

As cool as the permanent arcane skeleton & healer sounds, in a way I am happy with just casting them when I need them. I tried a pet build with my sorcerer and often found the pets got stuck on terrain or went after something I didn't want them to go after, and I had to unsummon & resummon to get control back.

IceAxe18 · June 2019

I would love for the Necromancer to have permanent pets also.

Cloudless · June 2019

I have nothing against temporary pets, but seriously... Magicka necros are not in a good spot at the moment, and I don't mean DPS-wise: playing them feels like a chore no matter what you're doing with them

I'd focus on fixing that issue rather than directing ZOS' attention how long their summons last - as if was their main problem right now.

Michaelkeir · June 2019

Noxavian wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

if you want to play a necro with permanent pets, go play gw2.
ESO already has a class with perma pets. doing it again wouldn't be interesting.
So they did temp pets. imo a fresh look on the class that every other game has as a dude with a skeleton army.

See, that would be all fine and dandy and all, but they ARENT temp pets. They cannot be targeted and do not have HP, they are basically glorified dots. Summoning an actual temp pet could be cool.

And I dunno, it seems their variety department is a bit lacking. I dont exactly think 1 ranged skeleton and 1 healing ghost is that, well, dynamic. Especially when every necromancer and their mother in-game can summon skeletons with shields/swords, zombies, spirits that actually attack you, etc.

This guy gets it. Where's my sword and board skeleton, or my battle axe wielding skeleton. A magic necromancer with no melee summons is a strange sight indeed. In EVERY Elder Scrolls game we've had both melee and ranged skeleton summons. Melee skeleton summons by npc are even in game.

And who said they had to be perma-summons. Instead of 15 sec mobile turrets we currently have make it 30 secs at LEAST. Personally I'd want 60 sec summons...but 30 secs works too. Past Elder Scroll games allowed you to summon zombies/skeletons from 30 secs to 60 secs just so you know.

Cloudless · June 2019

Michaelkeir wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

DBZVelena wrote: »

if you want to play a necro with permanent pets, go play gw2.
ESO already has a class with perma pets. doing it again wouldn't be interesting.
So they did temp pets. imo a fresh look on the class that every other game has as a dude with a skeleton army.

See, that would be all fine and dandy and all, but they ARENT temp pets. They cannot be targeted and do not have HP, they are basically glorified dots. Summoning an actual temp pet could be cool.

And I dunno, it seems their variety department is a bit lacking. I dont exactly think 1 ranged skeleton and 1 healing ghost is that, well, dynamic. Especially when every necromancer and their mother in-game can summon skeletons with shields/swords, zombies, spirits that actually attack you, etc.

This guy gets it. Where's my sword and board skeleton, or my battle axe wielding skeleton. A magic necromancer with no melee summons is a strange sight indeed. In EVERY Elder Scrolls game we've had both melee and ranged skeleton summons. Melee skeleton summons by npc are even in game.

And who said they had to be perma-summons. Instead of 15 sec mobile turrets we currently have make it 30 secs at LEAST. Personally I'd want 60 sec summons...but 30 secs works too. Past Elder Scroll games allowed you to summon zombies/skeletons from 30 secs to 60 secs just so you know.

30 seconds wouldn't be bad, actually. 16 seconds just feels like such an arbitrary number.

Michaelkeir · June 2019

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

No target based dots is my main problem with necro.
Can we get some cursy-drainy-debuffy stuff at least ? ( aside from ult ) ?

I agree with you mate. Where's my curse ability at for my necro at. Curse of Brittle Bones...or curse of putrid flesh, or curse of (insert cool name here). Magsorcs have a curse ability, why not necros.

Michaelkeir · June 2019

Noxavian wrote: »

Ditronus wrote: »

Like many others, almost every Necromancer I've met in-game, I'm disappointed that the developers couldn't find a way to make permanent or at least semi-permanent pets work. Tossing exploding floating skulls or summoning a buggy exploding (?) skeleton for 3 seconds every 3 seconds just isn't satisfying or fits what a Necromancer has been in Elder Scroll games. I would've loved having a two-handed ax-wielding zombie or skeleton by my side, cleaving enemies in its wake, that interacted with the corpse system in some way, such as picking up corpses to increase its duration/strength. Give stamina players more class-themed abilities instead of requiring Necromancers to use the same tired bow skills to do vet-viable dps; it's just bad design.

It feels like the developers hid behind the excuse of Necromancy being frowned upon in ES lore, as if NPC townsfolk who are constantly being threatened by daedric forces, or more specifically Molag Baal, in this game are perfectly fine with the idea of scamps, clannfears, and winged twilights running around their towns. To not give Necromancers a pet for "lore" reasons is inconsistent and lame.

The fact that the developers don't have a track record of changing or adding to class skill lines often or at all doesn't really make me want to stick around and see if they listen to feedback regarding this issue. There's a lot of feedback there. Until then, I'll keep fighting the plethora of NPC necromancers that continue to summon skeleton warriors and zombies in the Elswyer questline, and put on a happy face until I let my subscription run out for now.

This is basically my entire take on the situation too tbh.

I subbed and bought Elsweyr, wanting to give the game and new necro another go. However, I soon realized that for some reason, the one class where it makes sense to have summoning skill lines/actual cool summon mechanics (Why they didnt make a tanking line where you summon a big flesh atronach and you give it buffs/healing and it does the taunting for you is completely beyond me.) doesn't have any. Even the "temp" summons are just dots and cant even be killed from what ive seen. It feels really bad to supposedly "be" a necromancer, yet all of the NPCs I fight summon more creatures than I can. So for all of those that say "But necros arent SuPpOseD to summon stuff", you're dead wrong. Why is every basic necromancer and their long line of relatives summoning skellies with shields, huge flesh atronachs, buffing them with beams of dark energy? Much like vampires, why are the NPC counter parts way more cool than the PC?

Also for those that for some unlogical reason think basing Necromancer off summons wouldn't fit or be unique, they could of EASILY. AND I MEAN EASILY. Made the corpse mechanic the bread and butter for the necro's summoning mechanic. You have 3 corpses in 1 area? Use this ability to summon a medium-level undead. You have 5-10 corpses in one area? Summon a HUGE flesh atronach to attack for you, or an elite fully armored skeleton. It's as if they tried SO HARD to make a class that very clearly and in-lore is about summoning, not about summoning. While at the same time giving all necromancers you fight actual cool what-should-of-been class abilities.

Why they didn't have the "big new thing" for necro be the fact they can summon stuff using corpses and dark magic is, once again, beyond me. Feels like they kinda forgot what necromancers were in ES, and considering LITERALLY EVERY NECRO NPC IVE FOUGHT can summon more, cooler creatures than I can, what's the point? Might as well stare at normie npcs that can do cooler *** than me all day.

Another excellent point right here.i think the devs dropped the ball with necros. I believe they tried to make the necro feel unique...but got away from the play style of what a real necromancer is. They distanced themselves from making another pet class and made this instead.

I said this in another necro thread....making a tank line for necros that "Summoned" a skeleton goliath or flesh atronach that actually tanked for you. That would be unique and totally unlike anything currently in game. Well they did try that with the bear on the Warden...but it was nerfed into it's current state.

And i too agree...npc necros have way more summons and abilities then we do. Zombies, BOTH ranged and melee skeletons, flesh atronachs, bone goliaths, ghost. Tgey even get a beam that targets a summon and buffs them. I get that we are suppose to be "new" necromancers but you telling me I can't summon a sword wielding skeleton but i can summon a magic wielding one...seems a lot more complicated to me.

And the ultimates. Why not allow us to summon a smaller flesh atronach that's able to move around the battle field for it's duration. Or allow the rez ultimate to not only rez but be used on corpses to summon a group of 2-3 skeletons for 15 secs to rush nearby enemies and actually fight instead of exploding.

HorrorShow · June 2019

Imagine if they just bit the bullet and made a normal generic necromancer. Players might actually be happy.

Nogawd · June 2019

Permanent? No way. They should make the Sorcs and Wardens temporary as well.

Permanent is annoying, if anything. Screams newb player as well.

(Yes, I say this as a necor/sorc/warden player)

DreadDaedroth · June 2019

I think they've made unusual choices for necromancer pets:
Blastbones are like expoloding bone flayers (the ones summoned by bone colossus)
Wraith is a health giving netch
Skeleton mage/archer a nightblade shadow that follows you.
Flesh colossus that comes out 3 seconds to say hello and that's it.

xMovingTarget · June 2019

The class design is good and fun.

BUT THE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF BUGS THAT ZENIMAX DOES NOT CARE TO FIX AT ALL IS WHAT MAKES THE REAL DISAPPOINTMENT.
IT HAS BEEN ALMOST 2 MONTHS AND THE BIG ISSUES WITH NECRO HAS NOT BEEN FIXED, NOR ACKNOWLEDGED BY ZENIMAX!
AT LEAST THEY GOT OUR MONEY FOR ELSWEYR HUH.

I am sincerely pissed with this studio as of late. They make us pay for utter buggy garbage. Sure, the zone looks nice and all. But how can you not fix your new content at all after 1 month of release and another month of PTS testing.

Necro Issues still remaining since even PTS :

- Blastbones acting strange(not attacking)
- Blastbones randomly not available to be casted(greyed out key)
- Detonating syphon turns your character around not firing the skill
- Detonating syphon not being able to hit bosses in Sunspire
- Detonating syphon not being able to be used when another necro placed a corpse on your corpse.

These are the main issues at least for stamina Necro.
And there has been nothing on it from ZOS. I dont get it. They had a great opportunity to hook in alot of new players. But they messed it up because they probably rather work on new DLC because corporate greed. And not touching the issues the chapter introduced.

I dont get it. ZOS needs to get their -snip- together.

seejaystark · June 2019

Noxavian wrote: »

Ditronus wrote: »

Also for those that for some unlogical reason think basing Necromancer off summons wouldn't fit or be unique, they could of EASILY. AND I MEAN EASILY. Made the corpse mechanic the bread and butter for the necro's summoning mechanic. You have 3 corpses in 1 area? Use this ability to summon a medium-level undead. You have 5-10 corpses in one area? Summon a HUGE flesh atronach to attack for you, or an elite fully armored skeleton. It's as if they tried SO HARD to make a class that very clearly and in-lore is about summoning, not about summoning.

That would be very cool as a simple AoE skill. Just drop a giant circle and create a flesh atronach with a power and size dependent upon the number of corpses in that area.
If there's o ly one, just raise a zombie.

Imagine being able to summon zombie versions of every creature out there...
Thats essentially what I imagined when I first heard of a Necro pc

seejaystark · June 2019

That would be very cool as a simple AoE skill. Just drop a giant circle and create a flesh atronach with a power and size dependent upon the number of corpses in that area.
If there's o ly one, just raise a zombie.

Imagine being able to summon zombie versions of every creature out there...
Thats essentially what I imagined when I first heard of a Necro pc

xMovingTarget · June 2019

seejaystark wrote: »

That would be very cool as a simple AoE skill. Just drop a giant circle and create a flesh atronach with a power and size dependent upon the number of corpses in that area.
If there's o ly one, just raise a zombie.

Imagine being able to summon zombie versions of every creature out there...
Thats essentially what I imagined when I first heard of a Necro pc

They cant even make 1 skill work properly. And you want that?

highkingnm · June 2019

If you want permanent pets, play petsorc. They would have felt identical and pretty much would have been reskins for almost all intents and purposes. Fire and forget gives the class its own flavour, relying on temporary pets more heavily than NB and shade, without the permanent, no bother pets a la petsorcs.

This is before people would moan that they need corpses to buff skills, but can't create them in low mob fights (which is why they die). The duration of Mender, Skeletal Archer/Mage and blastbones (despite its faults) all fit the role they serve. A permanent healing pet? Would either be entirely OP, so weak you'd never use it or indistinguishable from Matriarch. A permanent DPS pet? How does this differ from scamp? Permanent resource pet? So perma-netch? There's no place in the game.

In the lore, only the most powerful necromancers can have a permanent summon. In Skyrim, you had to become a conjuration master for it. Unless you want to be Mannimarco levels of power (i.e. soloing trials), there is no lore-friendly way to implement permanent pets for necromancers.

Tl;dr: fire and forget gives it class character, creates corpses to buff skills, is more lore-friendly.

xMovingTarget · June 2019

^ This guy is right

david_m_18b16_ESO · June 2019

Ditronus wrote: »

Like many others, almost every Necromancer I've met in-game, I'm disappointed that the developers couldn't find a way to make permanent or at least semi-permanent pets work.

Permanant pet exist in only 1 of the 5 ES games so I've stopped to read at that point.

Stop expecting something that is agaisnt all ES lore.

jircris11 · June 2019

Ditronus wrote: »

Like many others, almost every Necromancer I've met in-game, I'm disappointed that the developers couldn't find a way to make permanent or at least semi-permanent pets work. Tossing exploding floating skulls or summoning a buggy exploding (?) skeleton for 3 seconds every 3 seconds just isn't satisfying or fits what a Necromancer has been in Elder Scroll games. I would've loved having a two-handed ax-wielding zombie or skeleton by my side, cleaving enemies in its wake, that interacted with the corpse system in some way, such as picking up corpses to increase its duration/strength. Give stamina players more class-themed abilities instead of requiring Necromancers to use the same tired bow skills to do vet-viable dps; it's just bad design.

It feels like the developers hid behind the excuse of Necromancy being frowned upon in ES lore, as if NPC townsfolk who are constantly being threatened by daedric forces, or more specifically Molag Baal, in this game are perfectly fine with the idea of scamps, clannfears, and winged twilights running around their towns. To not give Necromancers a pet for "lore" reasons is inconsistent and lame.

The fact that the developers don't have a track record of changing or adding to class skill lines often or at all doesn't really make me want to stick around and see if they listen to feedback regarding this issue. There's a lot of feedback there. Until then, I'll keep fighting the plethora of NPC necromancers that continue to summon skeleton warriors and zombies in the Elswyer questline, and put on a happy face until I let my subscription run out for now.

Necro tank is a blast tbh

HorrorShow · June 2019

highkingnm wrote: »

In the lore, only the most powerful necromancers can have a permanent summon. In Skyrim, you had to become a conjuration master for it. Unless you want to be Mannimarco levels of power (i.e. soloing trials), there is no lore-friendly way to implement permanent pets for necromancers.

Tl;dr: fire and forget gives it class character, creates corpses to buff skills, is more lore-friendly.

In Skyrim you could not have permanent daedra summon pets either. But ESO allows it.

There is no argument you can make against necromancers having permanent pets that doesn't also apply to daedra summoners.

The fact that the pets we summon are temporary, means that we are NOT using necromancy. We are conjuring them from oblivion or other realms. In Skyrim, I can summon a skeleton via conjuration and it is fine. Same in Oblivion. Pretty sure I could do the same in Morrowind, but it has been a long time. No one tries to arrest you. Because it IS NOT NECROMANCY. It is conjuration.

So if we are conjuring up dead things, no crime, no need for the town guards to attack us.

If it IS necromancy, then it needs to be a permanent summons that requires us to use physical corpses.

I am amazed at how people seem to have put complete mental blockers up to how often you could summon skeletons, ghost wolves, etc in other Elder Scrolls games but now all of a sudden it is a big deal.

Adernath · June 2019

It would be awesome if that blastbone is replaced by the most elementary necro skill of all: Raise a fallen foe to fight by your side for a certain time.

david_m_18b16_ESO · June 2019

HorrorShow wrote: »

highkingnm wrote: »

In the lore, only the most powerful necromancers can have a permanent summon. In Skyrim, you had to become a conjuration master for it. Unless you want to be Mannimarco levels of power (i.e. soloing trials), there is no lore-friendly way to implement permanent pets for necromancers.

Tl;dr: fire and forget gives it class character, creates corpses to buff skills, is more lore-friendly.

In . No one tries to arrest you. Because it IS NOT NECROMANCY. It is conjuration.

Necromancy isn't illegal in skyrim during the ERA we are playing it in ESO5. Thats why we can soul trap humans without beeing put in jail.

Also you can resurect dead corps in skyrim and they aren't permanant (without perks) and they aren't illegal.

You makes a lot of assumption that are just not right about how things works in ES lore.

undead pet aren't permanant simply bcuz you use a dead corps.

Tyrobag · June 2019

I fully agree that pets should be permanent. As far as your complaint about stam necro and bow, every stamina class uses the same back bar so its no big surprise, but Necromancer can use more actual class abilities than almost any other stam class.

When it comes to sorc pets, conjuration is a fully accepted and allowed school in all parts of Tamriel. Summoning a scamp doesn't hurt anyone unless you command the scamp to attack, raising a corpse is considered an act of defilement and so is illegal if performed on a citizen. None the less, this is still not an excuse for why we couldn't have permanent Necromancer pets. Especially since in lore binding the undead permanently is easier than binding a Daedra permanently (especially weak undead like skeletons).

You are correct in that they likely won't change it, in recent times ZoS has stuck to a policy of not making significant changes to visuals or fundamental functions of abilities (its been a long time since we saw a complete change like Blinding Flashes -> Radiant Destruction), so unfortunately we likely will have to live with short duration pets. Hopefully they will at least make ability generated corpses persist a little longer (needs to be at least 10 seconds).