brandonv516 wrote: »

Isn't this the case for Stamden vs. Magden too?

I'm still working on my Magcro but it feels a lot like Magden in regards to how I will need to play it in PvP.

Yes and no, the biggest difference between warden(s) and necro(s) is that the warden mag versions are on par with the Stam versions.

I.e. Blastbones vs Shalks; mag and Stam Shalks do the same thing; Blastbones Stam gives major defile - a huge advantage over the mag version.

Permafrost is gonna do the same thing on a mag Warden or a Stam Warden. Goliath is clearly superior on Stam.

While I agree with the similarities between warden and necro; I'd say warden is more evenly balanced between the two than is necro.

As for magden vs mag necro; shalk for as difficulty to land is, is far better than bones (currently)

In my opinion they got it reversed on necro; the Stam abilities should be damage focused while the magicka versions should be utility focused (defile and the skull abilities come to mind first)

I understand the logic behind the arcanist, but JUST like trinimac's valor, because of Battlespirit, the intent is completely lost in PvP. How can you buff the damage to PvP viability while not providing an insane DPS pve buff? I'd say something like enemies hit by arcanist get debuffs in someway.

I'm just really sad that every day I felt like I need to make my necro Stam and today I think I'm finally giving in

To add to the Stam vs Mag Warden notes... magwarden will always have a place in small man cuz of utilities.

Magcro might have a similar scenario where they are a utility focused build. Mainly as a way to hold choke points and doorways with ground aoes plus threaten with colossus

brandonv516 wrote: »

Isn't this the case for Stamden vs. Magden too?

I'm still working on my Magcro but it feels a lot like Magden in regards to how I will need to play it in PvP.

While I would absolutely put Stamina Warden ahead of Magicka Warden in an offensive role, the gap between Mag and Stam for Necromancers is much larger.

I say, emphatically and with no hesitation, that Magicka Necromancer is the hands-down worst class in the game for offensive roles in PvP, and by a pretty significant margin at that. You can do well in the low MMR games against not-so-great players that aren't the least bit organized, but as soon as you end up against players and teams that are actually good, Magicka Necromancer just completely falls apart.

It might make a solid healer, since the secondary effect on Resistant Flesh is fairly nice, Renewing Undeath can be really great in some situations, and the Intensive Mender is quite good when it actually works. But even then, I've found sustain to be a real problem, because Magicka Necromancer doesn't actually have any sustain skills for its primary resource pool. Mystic Siphon is a joke, and barely returns more than it costs, and that's as a Breton (7% cost reduction) in 5 light armor (10% cost reduction). If the tether gets broken early, either due to LOS, range, or a targeted player respawning, congratulations - your siphon just cost you more than it returned (as well as not doing any of the damage that is supposed to be its primary purpose).

A lot of people seem to think that Undead Confederate is the "Necromancer sustain" skill/passive but that's not exactly accurate, if you ask me. On my Breton Magicka Necromancer with the aforementioned cost reductions, my Intensive Mender costs 2,017 magicka and lasts for 8 seconds. Realistically, we should generally expect that 4 ticks of regeneration (which happen every 2 seconds) will benefit from the passive. This means that I spend 2,017 magicka in order to gain 800 magicka (and stamina, but I'm focusing on the primary resource pool here). While this extra 800 magicka can certainly be helpful, it's in no way comparable to other class' sustain abilities. Using the other Mender morph will improve the numbers somewhat, since you'll only have to recast the mender half as often, but it still costs more to trigger the passive than it returns.

Also, those magicka regeneration numbers are assuming that the caster doesn't use Mist Form or block with a Frost Staff at any point. Unlike a Warden's Blue Betty, or Templar's Rune, the Necromancer passive is simply an increase in normal resource regeneration, and is therefore subject to the drawback of being "turned off" in some situations.

If we compare the Necromancer passive to a "real" sustain skill, like a Templar's Rune, we'll see a huge difference. My Magicka Templar is also a Breton, but is currently only wearing 4 pieces of light armor (I stripped some of the gear off for my Necromancer, and haven't being actively playing the Templar lately). While missing that extra 2% cost reduction, my rune takes 875 magicka to cast, and returns 240 magicka every 1 second (which is equivalent to 480 recovery, which also works during Mist Form and Ice Staff blocking). So over the same 8 second duration as an Intensive Mender, the Templar will gain 1,920 magicka from the Rune - that's more than double the magicka return at less than half the cost.

Don't get me wrong - the Mender heal is quite good when it actually works, and I'm not saying that the ability itself needs some sort of huge buff or anything. My point is that the class lacks a magicka sustain skill, and that it's very noticeable when put under any real pressure (which will happen often when you're against good players, especially since Magicka Necromancer also lacks mobility).

There is one thing it does better than stamina necro, as well as every other specc in the game: spam ultimates

Magcro has the unique ability to manually generate (under ideal circumstances) 3.475 ultimate per second, even out of combat.

Other than that though i have to agree. Magcro feels very underwheling.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is one thing it does better than stamina necro, as well as every other specc in the game: spam ultimates

Magcro has the unique ability to manually generate (under ideal circumstances) 3.475 ultimate per second, even out of combat.

Other than that though i have to agree. Magcro feels very underwheling.

The issue for me was actually taking advantage of ult gain. And to be fair I can't help but think a Stam Nord with WW hide would generate ultimate faster than any mag spec.

Example I can think of is Dragon vs WW hide, WW hide is better than dragon imo

You don't need the ww hide tbh. Just nord, asylum 2h and necs standard ult gen + skills is strong enough.

Currently waiting for ults is the only way to play stam nec because as its base half the skills don't work.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ahzek wrote: »

There is one thing it does better than stamina necro, as well as every other specc in the game: spam ultimates

Magcro has the unique ability to manually generate (under ideal circumstances) 3.475 ultimate per second, even out of combat.

Other than that though i have to agree. Magcro feels very underwheling.

The issue for me was actually taking advantage of ult gain. And to be fair I can't help but think a Stam Nord with WW hide would generate ultimate faster than any mag spec.

Example I can think of is Dragon vs WW hide, WW hide is better than dragon imo

You don't need the ww hide tbh. Just nord, asylum 2h and necs standard ult gen + skills is strong enough.

Currently waiting for ults is the only way to play stam nec because as its base half the skills don't work.

I run the old standard DK stam build on stam necro and it works pretty good

Fury/Hide/Bloodspawn on a Nord StamNecro

Solo use dawn breaker, groups use the giant zombie guy

Every stamina can.