I'm actually fairly impressed with Magdens
SidraWillowsky
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Months ago I made a magden with the intent of building the trolliest PvP toon possible- snares, immobilizations, etc. She turned out to be fairly ineffective at anything, so I pretty much shelved her. I've been working on vMA on a magblade and was having some issues with her lack of burst heals and CC abilities. Someone on Reddit posted a video of her/his magden parse and I thought it looked pretty neat and fairly effective (37ishk DPS) so I decided to try taking my magden into vMA. I'm still working on getting all of her skills leveled up so I've not yet taken her into vMA, but I'm pretty pleased with the results of my first parse with her
My best parse on my main (stamblade) is 45k, but my best magicka 3 mil parse is around 37k with my magblade, so the magden's not super far behind, especially given that this was my first parse and that her gear isn't at all optimized- her Necropotence armor is still purple, as is one piece of the Zaan set, and Zaan and Spell Strat are hand-me-downs from the magblade that I'm using while I finish up her False God's set and decide on a monster set.
I get that it's still behind other classes in terms of DPS, but I'd say this is good enough for almost any end-game content. I haven't taken her into any dungeons or trials and I know that Zaan is generally considered a "cheese" set, but even without I think that she'd pull decent enough DPS to do almost all content in the game.
Also, it's FUN! Surprisingly fun. And with the above rotation I only use five skills in totality (shalk, cliff racer, fletcher, blockade, winter's revenge) along with the netch. Once she's got all of her skills there'll be channeled acceleration + self-heals as well, but, at least relative to the magblade rotation, it's fairly straightforward. She's also been performing surprisingly well in PvP with this build- I swap out SS and Zaan for Vicious Death and Thurvokun and have been pretty shocked at her survivability and damage output. Granted, I'm pretty terrible at PvP but I've never gotten this many kills before.
BiS? No. Ideal for optimized vet raid groups? Probably not, since, as people have mentioned, they don't bring anything particularly unique to the table and have relatively low DPS. Fun and versatile? Absolutely. If you're not looking to top the leaderboards for vet trials/vMA/etc then I think this is a pretty solid choice that people shouldn't be so afraid to try due to its reputation for being so weak. It definitely needs some love via buffs but it's still a comfortably strong class to play.
My best parse on my main (stamblade) is 45k, but my best magicka 3 mil parse is around 37k with my magblade, so the magden's not super far behind, especially given that this was my first parse and that her gear isn't at all optimized- her Necropotence armor is still purple, as is one piece of the Zaan set, and Zaan and Spell Strat are hand-me-downs from the magblade that I'm using while I finish up her False God's set and decide on a monster set.
I get that it's still behind other classes in terms of DPS, but I'd say this is good enough for almost any end-game content. I haven't taken her into any dungeons or trials and I know that Zaan is generally considered a "cheese" set, but even without I think that she'd pull decent enough DPS to do almost all content in the game.
Also, it's FUN! Surprisingly fun. And with the above rotation I only use five skills in totality (shalk, cliff racer, fletcher, blockade, winter's revenge) along with the netch. Once she's got all of her skills there'll be channeled acceleration + self-heals as well, but, at least relative to the magblade rotation, it's fairly straightforward. She's also been performing surprisingly well in PvP with this build- I swap out SS and Zaan for Vicious Death and Thurvokun and have been pretty shocked at her survivability and damage output. Granted, I'm pretty terrible at PvP but I've never gotten this many kills before.
BiS? No. Ideal for optimized vet raid groups? Probably not, since, as people have mentioned, they don't bring anything particularly unique to the table and have relatively low DPS. Fun and versatile? Absolutely. If you're not looking to top the leaderboards for vet trials/vMA/etc then I think this is a pretty solid choice that people shouldn't be so afraid to try due to its reputation for being so weak. It definitely needs some love via buffs but it's still a comfortably strong class to play.
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Iki✭✭✭Replace that necropotence with mothers sorrow and your dps increases. Now your spell crit chance is too low for shadow-mundus.1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@SidraWillowsky glad you're enjoying your magden. I've got a magden (and a bow/bow stamden) and, though not my faves, enjoy both of them. Some of the things I enjoy about the warden are:
- Bear is an ult instead of a 1-5 slotted skill and that works better for me.
- Class has a decent self-heal that helps others when needed.
- Nice set of self-buffs, though it does take prep time to get them up and some rotation time to keep them up.
Heh, I won't offer any advice on your dps since yours beats mine.
Edited by AcadianPaladin on June 19, 2019 10:30PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They are fun and they have a very good but simple rotation if you’re not score pushing. And if you’re score pushing you aren’t playing Magden anyway.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, magblade and magden are very close now, but it is not because magden became good, but because ZOS nerfs magblade every patch. (4 patches in a row as I remember)2 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Well, magblade and magden are very close now, but it is not because magden became good, but because ZOS nerfs magblade every patch. (4 patches in a row as I remember)
Eh they nerf magden too. Though this patch was pvp nerfs.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX2 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.Edited by WrathOfInnos on June 20, 2019 10:55PM1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.
Thanks! Yeah, I have a False God's set now that I just finished golding out. When I use that + MS + Zaan I only have 28k magicka, however. Gonna try swapping Ilambris in for Zaan, but I'm concerned about sustain. I've still got race change tokens and I really don't WANT to do this, but I guess I could change her to an Altmer if sustain's a major issue (THEY'RE TOO.... tall). I know that Breton is BiS for mag sustain, but the thought of leveling ANOTHER toon to 50 is exhausting
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SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Well, magblade and magden are very close now, but it is not because magden became good, but because ZOS nerfs magblade every patch. (4 patches in a row as I remember)
Yeah, that's correct too- poor magblades...0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.
Thanks! Yeah, I have a False God's set now that I just finished golding out. When I use that + MS + Zaan I only have 28k magicka, however. Gonna try swapping Ilambris in for Zaan, but I'm concerned about sustain. I've still got race change tokens and I really don't WANT to do this, but I guess I could change her to an Altmer if sustain's a major issue (THEY'RE TOO.... tall). I know that Breton is BiS for mag sustain, but the thought of leveling ANOTHER toon to 50 is exhausting
Altmer lost their sustain, I recently had to change my main Altmer to Breton.0 -
Seenoevil✭✭✭Magden is my favourite class for vma, i still run my pvp setup full impen and I got my first flawless conqueror achievement
5 pieces armour master backbarred on a sword and board, 5 pieces necropotence and a masters lightning staff front bar, earthgore... I couldn't be bothered getting the divine pieces I needed so still full impen lol
It's great your really are a tank healer and a dd all in 1, takes a little time about an hour and half to complete but it's just soooooo smooth0 -
jhall03✭✭✭✭Magden is my favourite class for vma, i still run my pvp setup full impen and I got my first flawless conqueror achievement 5 pieces armour master backbarred on a sword and board, 5 pieces necropotence and a masters lightning staff front bar, earthgore... I couldn't be bothered getting the divine pieces I needed so still full impen lol
It's great your really are a tank healer and a dd all in 1, takes a little time about an hour and half to complete but it's just soooooo smooth
do you mind giving your bar setup? I've always wanted to do vma with my magden.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.
Yep, it's exactly what I did (replaced siroria+CWC for FG+Mara and my life became so much better (I that kind of player who likes to "move it, move it"). Maybe with CWC dps is better for 2-3k dps, but life expectancy is much shorter. Recently I had 24k HP tooltip (Mara+Skoria+Ebon+minor toughness). 24k HP on dps with zero attributes/enchants for health! I don't know maybe Ilambris is better then skoria due to extra magicka instead of useless health, but I'm not sure. (I have Zaan ofc, but it's not that often when we can actually use it).0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.
Yep, it's exactly what I did (replaced siroria+CWC for FG+Mara and my life became so much better (I that kind of player who likes to "move it, move it"). Maybe with CWC dps is better for 2-3k dps, but life expectancy is much shorter. Recently I had 24k HP tooltip (Mara+Skoria+Ebon+minor toughness). 24k HP on dps with zero attributes/enchants for health! I don't know maybe Ilambris is better then skoria due to extra magicka instead of useless health, but I'm not sure. (I have Zaan ofc, but it's not that often when we can actually use it).
When you can't reliably use Zaan, which is most of the time, then its best to just combine two monsters sets that provide spell crit like Zaan and Slimecraw.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »
You should try False Gods set. It’s nearly as much damage as Sorrow or Necropotence, with some extra sustain and mobility.
That might be enough to allow switching your Witchmother’s Brew to Bloody Mara drink, which adds a lot of Max Magicka and Health.
Yep, it's exactly what I did (replaced siroria+CWC for FG+Mara and my life became so much better (I that kind of player who likes to "move it, move it"). Maybe with CWC dps is better for 2-3k dps, but life expectancy is much shorter. Recently I had 24k HP tooltip (Mara+Skoria+Ebon+minor toughness). 24k HP on dps with zero attributes/enchants for health! I don't know maybe Ilambris is better then skoria due to extra magicka instead of useless health, but I'm not sure. (I have Zaan ofc, but it's not that often when we can actually use it).
When you can't reliably use Zaan, which is most of the time, then its best to just combine two monsters sets that provide spell crit like Zaan and Slimecraw.
I'm afraid crit chance will be too big with too low effective spell power. Dummy both usual and trial won't tell the truth, though we may calculate it from trial CMX stats.
My usual average real buffed trial stats with skoria+mara+FG+MS are like 42k magicka/3900 SD/75% crit/100% crit damage, so potential damage is (4200+3900*1.05)*1.75=14516 "spell racoons"
Two crit pieces will add 7.4% of crit, result will be:
(4200+3900*1.05)*1.824=15130, so net increase will be 4% of potential dps.
Two pieces of SD will add 258*1.3=335 SD, result will be:
(4200+4235*1.05)*1.75=15131, lol, the same as a crit, I guess this is formula used by ZOS for balancing
Of course in case of trial dummy crit damage will be higher due to unrealistic 100% major force, and in parses 2 crit pieces will show better results then 2 spell damage.
And Skoria is raw +1500 to dps and 1200 bonus health. So conclusion is if somebody's dps is higher then 37500 and he uses Mara then two pieces of crit will be always better then Skoria/Ilambris whatever. But if we will use CWC with far superior sustain then Skoria will net good results in all scenarios where Zaan can't be used.
Interesting, how it will work in real trial conditions if MS is replaced with spell strat and lose of crit compensated by FG+2 spell crit pieces. Potentially spell strat brings 3.87 set bonuses on 5th piece while MS only 2.3 set bonuses and they are lost when we are on back bar...
In theory it will be like:
(4200+4550*1.05)*1.68=15082... damn, ZOS is not bad at set balancing it seems.0 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Thanks everyone for the advice.
@MartiniDaniels how the heck are you getting 42k magicka? Even on a Breton I'm not hitting those numbers.
Also, what does CWC stand for, besides Clockwork City?0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »Thanks everyone for the advice.
MartiniDaniels how the heck are you getting 42k magicka? Even on a Breton I'm not hitting those numbers.
Also, what does CWC stand for, besides Clockwork City?
This is averaged trial stats, so warhorn has very high uptime. CWC - Clockwork city fillet food. Build is absolutely standard magblade. Race - Dunmer.0
