wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

same are repeating everyone agains GAH, nothing new but with mostly less arguments also

so what if I want to sell item for fair price without paying any fee to stay in guild? sorry but this is nonsense if we want to sell anything in fair price
I was not so long ago in 1 not huge guild in vvardenfel, I was selling without problem many "trash" items for my average mm which have data mostly from 2 bigger craglorn guilds, now Im in other guild in worse place than vvardnefell and for good 1 week I have sold only few these "trash" items in same price

so if you are in guild which dnt need fee to stay in them without regular sales you are handicapped by *** place it is in so you probably wont never sell items for fair price like in top spots, you need to significant lower your prices if you want to sell an item here without waing weeks or months for this


addons doesnt make GAH here as its not possible but they are making system much closer to GAH so to people which are using this definitely basic guild trader system is overshadowed by concepts of GAH


and waht I know about pc players about this?
so I know dozens or so and I have meed hundrets of players with similiar thinking - guild trader system is bad, flawled and GAH would be more efficient, comfortable etc
just literally every player which I meet was in this opinion - so from pvp, pve etc and even some just casuals for light content

I havnt meet a single person in game who would be happy from current trade system
I dont mention here rp's as I never needed and had willing to talk to them, just nothing special, just noneed, I was minding my own buisnes and so they also

as for console player..welp..we same many many many threads with their pain and this isnt also their fault as they just prefer to play on console isntead of pc and because they more like to play on console now they need to be hurted more by game creators? even when this game before release was specjally designing to be playable not only on pc but on other platforms like console...I dont see to much sense here
game since beggining was designed to be playable on many platforms but yet if you are not on PC at all you still have many drawback of not playing on PC

Actualy, if you go back to 2010 - 2012 news releases, the game was PC focused. There is a reason console release was over a year after the first PC launch. And consoles were delayed as the UI systems didn't work for consoles and had to be re done.
Also Sony and Microsoft are in charge of what ZoS can do, so it is they who don't allow add ons.
Just my 2 drakes...

Nope you are right to a point. Consoles won't allow add-ons, but console also won't stop ESO from building those features into the base vanilla game and out it out as a patch. That is just zos being lazy and once again not improving their game at all.

JKorr wrote: »

Personal opinion/wish? They had kept it pc only, and subscription only. It would be interesting to see how much different it could be with a stable income to count on and no console restrictions.

Agreed, and that is why I'm following Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen development and have pledged to beta test it. What happens after launch nobody knows, but their stated goal is to have a sub-only, classical MMORPG. I'm down with that.

daemonios wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Personal opinion/wish? They had kept it pc only, and subscription only. It would be interesting to see how much different it could be with a stable income to count on and no console restrictions.

Agreed, and that is why I'm following Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen development and have pledged to beta test it. What happens after launch nobody knows, but their stated goal is to have a sub-only, classical MMORPG. I'm down with that.

Thanks for the mention; I went to check out some of the information. Unfortunately, now I'm interested. :P

zyk wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with providing feedback and describing pain points. But to advocate the removal of a major feature enjoyed by so many other players is pretty gross.

And yet we have all these "yes" voters not wanting to remove the system but to upgrade it and make it work for everyone. This is exactly what you're saying should happen. And yet you're still unhappy.

You could change the system to a global one with each player getting x number of slots to post items per guild that they belong to. Which would keep the parts of the system that people laughingly claim they love while getting rid of the issue of GM burnout and the way the game encourages the petty, vindictive backstabbing of the current system. But somehow that system isn't gross but wanting something better is. Whatever.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

Uh....maybe because I didn't make the poll?

And... ?
If the poll would prove your point you wouldn't mention potential bias, but if it doesn't go your way, you declare it biased and worthless. Win/win ? Not for your credibility anyway.

[/quote]

And... stop addressing me as if I'm the person who created the post. It's confusing to people who read it, it's inaccurate, and it's just dumb. the point of wanting to see how console players specifically consider this issue is that console players do not have work arounds. Look, I get that it furthers your talking points to make me look like I'm some bad person but the result is really that you are point-blank refusing to look at any other point of view.

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

But yeah, tell us more about how a valid issue shouldn't even be considered because it's so outrageous to think that players on different platforms have different issues.
No actually don't tell us more. We got it. You're totes outraged at the mere suggestion that we should look at different platforms as, ya know, different. 🙄

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually, yes. Different platforms, different issues, different choices, different tools, and, in the end, different game. And if you want to fight for more equality, ask for YOUR platform to get more stuff instead of asking OURS to get less stuff.

[/quote]

The only people asking for more are the platform PC people who don't care that others have less. Console gamers aren't asking for more then other platforms. Console gamers are asking for changes that would make what is offered similar on all of the platforms.

The whole issue of people getting stuff is something you see in society every day where people get this knee jerk reaction that if somebody else is getting a right that must mean you're getting a right taken away. It's not accurate there and it's not accurate here.

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

I mean, keep in mind, Anita is the same person who completely dismisses console players by saying welp, it's your choice to play on a console. Like that's some really good reasoning behind the devs supplying a lesser game to console users. Also, because let's get real: EVERYONE has a computer. Don't argue with Anita. She knows things. Everyone has a computer, everyone loves computers, sitting at computers is great for every single human being, AND daring to like console gaming means you just deserve what you get.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

So just because I can't afford a Mercedes I should complain and whine that my cheap car doesn't drive like a Mercedes because after all we all drive on the same roads ? No. Mercedes drivers spent more on their car and they deserve the quality that goes with it. I don't want to spend that much on a car and I have less comfort, and guess what ? I LIVE WITH IT.
It's not like we're talking essentials like food & shelter here.
You're not ENTITLED to have all the features PC have, like PC players are not entitled to have all the features consoles have. You made a choice. LIVE WITH IT. Maybe learn some other positioning than the victim's one. Whether playing on console is a true choice or a financial constraint (which, on top of everything else, is quite silly, because PCs are cheaper in the long run, but let's not start this war here...), it's still YOUR choice and YOUR situation. LIVE WITH IT.
And by all means, if you have complaints, talk to ZOS/Sony/Microsoft. It's not the fault of the PC players if you have issues with the game, and there's strictly nothing we PC players can do for you in that regard.

Thank you for today's entry in stupid analogies that entirely don't work.

Nope you are right to a point. Consoles won't allow add-ons, but console also won't stop ESO from building those features into the base vanilla game and out it out as a patch. That is just zos being lazy and once again not improving their game at all.

We have addons in Skyrim on xbox/ps4 (took a few years but..) though so its not that addons in general are not allowed on console.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@antijarieb17_ESO so what are you comparing?
do we are are here to play trade company minigame here or to actual play this game?

and btw rp is even more senseless time waste
what you gain from this? nothing, not even single achevement for rping with someone, just nothing so
for what is lore here? idk, most people at all play this game to play with others content, for what we need lore to dungs, raids or pvp? this all can be implemented without lore, just enter, kill, loot drops and gain xp
lore to rp is real time waste in creation of games

I'm surprised that you actually understood my point.
Now you make it clear that you don't care about trading, that you don't consider as being a true part of the game, but as a simple utility. You also have no respect nor understanding for people who role-play, sink into the lore, etc.
You're only interested in combat.

That's your choice, but it's not everyone's choice. As a result, you must stop to present your conclusion and thoughts as anything objective. They're just your personal preference. The trader system doesn't suit your preferences, but it suits many other people's preferences. And other people are just as entitled to playing the part of the game they like (including the trading game) as you are entitled to play the part of the game you like (combat).

I play the "trade company minigame" and enjoy it immensely. I don't know what you call "actually play this game" because, to me, that's "actually playing the game". If it were for combat only I'd have left this game after a week, yet I've been here 5 years.

Wow.

Leading with Condescension, and then coming to a completely invalid conclusion. That is not an easy thing to do. Congratz.

Apparently you have declared that there are only two aspects of this game. Trading and combat. Nothing else exists. If you don't like the RP of trading you Must Only love combat. Weird.

Something all the " I like to travel to shops so everything must stay the way it is" camp specifically ignores is that Trading is Not 'just another aspect of playing the game'. The trading system affects Everyone. So just because a small number of people enjoy something, it does NOT mean that their 'desires' should over-rule what the Majority wants.

Generally, since you ask, the average person believes "playing the game" is developing a character, being involved in quests, solving plotlines, - in short, focusing on developing a character to its highest potential. Many people don't consider 'creating their own out of character game' inside the game, to be actually playing the game in front of them. How many XP do you get for playing the "Trading Company Mini-game" ?

- I was responding to @Edziu who clearly stated that everything (including lore) but combat was a waste of time in the game. Please read threads before jumping in.
- I have not declared that only combat and trading are true aspects of this game. But I was comparing the two for the sake of the demonstration.
- The trading system affects everyone just like the combat system affects everyone, because combat is required for everything in this game including farming, collecting skillpoints and lorebooks, and everything. Do you read me complaining about combat and how it should be automatized, changed or even removed... ? No, you don't. The pro-GAH people want to buy the stuff they need (and are too lazy to farm) in the most automatized, cheap, unsocial, quick and anonymized way. At the expense of people who enjoy the trading game. They are the selfish ones, not me.
- Who are you to say you're a majority ? You don't know. Ever since the GAH/traders debate started, which means, ever since the game launched 5+ years ago, there's always been a 50/50 split in opinions and noone can claim "majority" here. Just a split.
- I don't care what "the average person" believes - no more than I care what other games do. Still, I also believe that "playing the game" is developing a character via questing, etc. That includes trading. Objections ?
- I have over 1300 CP. Objections ? (Not that it proves anything, though, except maybe that I've done pretty much everything in this game and have every right to prefer one type of activity over another. But a person who starts playing today has that right, too).

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

A system that requires add-ons to work at a level that satisfies players is not a system that is working well. It's a system that can be worked around - but only for PC players

The game with the most addons ever created is undoubtedly Skyrim. Does that mean it was a non-working game ? A bad game ?

barney2525 wrote: »

The majority of players who want to buy something, want a quick and easy method to do so.

Just as I'd like a quick and easy method to kill mobs (like the "killall" command you have in Skyrim and other single-player games). But I don't get that in ESO because it's an MMO and others like to have mobs to kill. I don't always get what I want and I accept that. You don't get the quick&easy&boring GAH. Live with it or play something else. Objections ?

NotSuzyHomemaker wrote: »

And when I can look at the first visible 20 "no" votes on this poll and see that 17 of those votes are from PC players, I think it tells a story about who is voting based on liking the system for themselves. And frankly, I don't think most of those "no" votes have considered consoles.

I wonder why you keep making these polls, because, as soon as the results don't fit your agenda, you start denying their validity (be it "it's biased by PC players" or "forumers aren't representative of players" or whatever else).

Just referencing your remark to me.

Wow. Apparently you didn't bother with the 'Overland is too easy' thread where they explain mobs are not the slightest of challenges.

You are comparing in-character combat actions with using an AH/Trader. That's just ludicrous. Any system of currency within a game is a side issue and Never the Primary Aspect of the game. It should be handled as a side issue, and thus BE a simple and easy to use system. Using an AH or Trader - You get NO XP. You get NO credit for any achievements. You get NO further into playing the game whatsoever. Your argument is ridiculous.

And you have proven that you don't care about what would be the Best situation for the game. You just want what you want.

Your opinion is noted. But its only an opinion.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

1) Your generalizations are false. I know you think 10k per week, per Trade Guild is a small fee, since you probably have millions. But to a lot of people its exorbitant. Judging All others by comparing it to your Own position is ludicrous. You also have no idea what some guilds will do as far as kicking members. I am in two trade guilds. If you don't sell or pay you get kicked. Period. They both have a hard time keeping their Trader and THAT over-rules any social aspects one may contribute.

2) Using addons Does equate to the AH. With the GAH - you pull up listings for what you want to sell and immediately see what the item is selling for across the game. The addons are designed to do the same thing - give you a good idea of what the item is selling for across the game.

3) Skrue Console players? Nice attitude. Again, this is not an issue of Game play in the sense of developing your character and completing Achievements. The fact that the Game IS put out for Console players gives the Company a responsibility to address the issue of Addons. Its the Company that allows addons for the PC group. The Company should be taking All the various systems in the game into account and have Something equitable for the Console player. Why would you put the game on another platform if you know it will be bashed and berated and your Company name run into the ground when it does not have half of the systems available to PC users?

4) Don't patronize. You are Not sorry that you sound aggressive. You are intentionally trying to give out the 'I know all' vibe. You are not interested in discussion because you are not interested in LISTENING to what others say. You know what you like. You don't Care what other people like. And you don't Care what might be best for the game as a whole. You just want what you want. Period.

barney2525 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

1) Your generalizations are false. I know you think 10k per week, per Trade Guild is a small fee, since you probably have millions. But to a lot of people its exorbitant. Judging All others by comparing it to your Own position is ludicrous. You also have no idea what some guilds will do as far as kicking members. I am in two trade guilds. If you don't sell or pay you get kicked. Period. They both have a hard time keeping their Trader and THAT over-rules any social aspects one may contribute.

2) Using addons Does equate to the AH. With the GAH - you pull up listings for what you want to sell and immediately see what the item is selling for across the game. The addons are designed to do the same thing - give you a good idea of what the item is selling for across the game.

3) Skrue Console players? Nice attitude. Again, this is not an issue of Game play in the sense of developing your character and completing Achievements. The fact that the Game IS put out for Console players gives the Company a responsibility to address the issue of Addons. Its the Company that allows addons for the PC group. The Company should be taking All the various systems in the game into account and have Something equitable for the Console player. Why would you put the game on another platform if you know it will be bashed and berated and your Company name run into the ground when it does not have half of the systems available to PC users?

4) Don't patronize. You are Not sorry that you sound aggressive. You are intentionally trying to give out the 'I know all' vibe. You are not interested in discussion because you are not interested in LISTENING to what others say. You know what you like. You don't Care what other people like. And you don't Care what might be best for the game as a whole. You just want what you want. Period.

Well said. These PC players are all entitled always putting down console players lol. (very few seem to actually care about console players and improving the game on PC.)

He is totally being agressive on purpose , he doesn't even want to admit what his add-ons do even though we have seen them used on YouTube...... Yep PC players can say what they want but auction house would be the best solution especially for a corrupt system on console.

barney2525 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

1) Your generalizations are false. I know you think 10k per week, per Trade Guild is a small fee, since you probably have millions. But to a lot of people its exorbitant. Judging All others by comparing it to your Own position is ludicrous. You also have no idea what some guilds will do as far as kicking members. I am in two trade guilds. If you don't sell or pay you get kicked. Period. They both have a hard time keeping their Trader and THAT over-rules any social aspects one may contribute.

2) Using addons Does equate to the AH. With the GAH - you pull up listings for what you want to sell and immediately see what the item is selling for across the game. The addons are designed to do the same thing - give you a good idea of what the item is selling for across the game.

3) Skrue Console players? Nice attitude. Again, this is not an issue of Game play in the sense of developing your character and completing Achievements. The fact that the Game IS put out for Console players gives the Company a responsibility to address the issue of Addons. Its the Company that allows addons for the PC group. The Company should be taking All the various systems in the game into account and have Something equitable for the Console player. Why would you put the game on another platform if you know it will be bashed and berated and your Company name run into the ground when it does not have half of the systems available to PC users?

4) Don't patronize. You are Not sorry that you sound aggressive. You are intentionally trying to give out the 'I know all' vibe. You are not interested in discussion because you are not interested in LISTENING to what others say. You know what you like. You don't Care what other people like. And you don't Care what might be best for the game as a whole. You just want what you want. Period.

1) If 10k per week per guild is not small to you, maybe that's because you're in too many guilds and selling too few goods. You don't have to fill all five guild slots with trade guilds. If you're only selling around ten items at a time, then you don't need 150 sales slots. As for the fee itself, you can make 10k just from the gold reward for doing daily crafting writs. It's not at all difficult.

2) The addons fall well short of an AH. TTC gives you an overview of what items are being listed for globally while MM gives you an idea of how items are doing within your own guild. They each have their place in their current form as useful tools to aid in trade, but an AH completely obliterates both of them. Under an AH system, you see every item for sale in the entire world in real time and all you have to do is either list your item for one gold less than whatever the lowest priced one currently listed is or buy whatever item is at the top of the list. There's no thought involved. No effort. You may as well be buying and selling directly with an NPC.

3) There's good reasons why PCs are superior gaming rigs and it's not because people don't care about console players.

4) Ironic that you say that. Have you actually read the yes vote posts in here? Including your own?

Glurin wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@anitajoneb17_ESO

- so if you want to stay in trade guild you actually even have to play in way to get something for trade to not be kicked from guild
- there are players who just get something wroth to sell sometimes and thus they are forced to join to trade guild to be able to sell this without more problems
- as it was already sayed ofc most of PC users have addons for this and when they are using them..then why they are still against GAH? thi sis real nonsense as saying GAH is no needed while using addons in game which are making this system more closer to GAH than current
- console player always had worse in ESO in any way and even not viability to use addons doesnt explain this as currently players with addons also want things to QoL which are mainly asking console players - this is showing how not good system is for player even if they have access to addons improving this

- point 1 : No, you don't. First, because if you have nothing to sell, you can always compensate your lack of sales with a small fee. And secondly, because whatever you play in the game, you always collect something worth selling along the way. And thirdly, because many trading guilds do not have sales requirements. And I'll also add, that as long as you're a bit social, make yourself known and participate a bit a the guild's life, you won't get kicked no matter how much you sell.

- Point 2 : using addons doesnt equate to wanting a GAH. Why should it ? Addons do NOT mimick GAH. Not at all. You're imagining things here.

- Point 3 : Console players get the worse version of the game - agreed. But that's their choice, they should deal with this with ZOS, Sony and Microsoft, and a GAH is not going to change that. It's not the fault of PC players nor of addon authors, and I certainly will not agree to a GAH solely for the sake of console players.

- Point 3(b) : what do you know about what PC players want or don't want ? Again some imaginary statistics or heard-of rumours carefully picked to suit your agenda ?

Sorry if I sound aggressive, but as a matter of fact, I consider you as intellectually dishonest. Especially since you're repeating the same things over and over and over while genuine, sensible and structured answers have been provided all over these threads - and I'm pretty sure you've read and understood them.

1) Your generalizations are false. I know you think 10k per week, per Trade Guild is a small fee, since you probably have millions. But to a lot of people its exorbitant. Judging All others by comparing it to your Own position is ludicrous. You also have no idea what some guilds will do as far as kicking members. I am in two trade guilds. If you don't sell or pay you get kicked. Period. They both have a hard time keeping their Trader and THAT over-rules any social aspects one may contribute.

2) Using addons Does equate to the AH. With the GAH - you pull up listings for what you want to sell and immediately see what the item is selling for across the game. The addons are designed to do the same thing - give you a good idea of what the item is selling for across the game.

3) Skrue Console players? Nice attitude. Again, this is not an issue of Game play in the sense of developing your character and completing Achievements. The fact that the Game IS put out for Console players gives the Company a responsibility to address the issue of Addons. Its the Company that allows addons for the PC group. The Company should be taking All the various systems in the game into account and have Something equitable for the Console player. Why would you put the game on another platform if you know it will be bashed and berated and your Company name run into the ground when it does not have half of the systems available to PC users?

4) Don't patronize. You are Not sorry that you sound aggressive. You are intentionally trying to give out the 'I know all' vibe. You are not interested in discussion because you are not interested in LISTENING to what others say. You know what you like. You don't Care what other people like. And you don't Care what might be best for the game as a whole. You just want what you want. Period.

1) If 10k per week per guild is not small to you, maybe that's because you're in too many guilds and selling too few goods. You don't have to fill all five guild slots with trade guilds. If you're only selling around ten items at a time, then you don't need 150 sales slots. As for the fee itself, you can make 10k just from the gold reward for doing daily crafting writs. It's not at all difficult.

2) The addons fall well short of an AH. TTC gives you an overview of what items are being listed for globally while MM gives you an idea of how items are doing within your own guild. They each have their place in their current form as useful tools to aid in trade, but an AH completely obliterates both of them. Under an AH system, you see every item for sale in the entire world in real time and all you have to do is either list your item for one gold less than whatever the lowest priced one currently listed is or buy whatever item is at the top of the list. There's no thought involved. No effort. You may as well be buying and selling directly with an NPC.

3) There's good reasons why PCs are superior gaming rigs and it's not because people don't care about console players.

4) Ironic that you say that. Have you actually read the yes vote posts in here? Including your own?

1) Or, maybe it's because we are Forced to be in a trading guild IF we ever want to sell anything. I'm not in 5 trading guilds. Paying 50k per week is ludicrous. I am in 2 Trading Guilds but Only because there are specific times of the year when I need to sell something. Specifically - Events. Events hand out motifs and other oddities that would be stupid to vendor. And even more stupid to just waste on Alts. But I don't need a Trader every week. And there are a lot of players in the same boat.

And it does not matter how many Trials and Dungeons a player runs with their Guild. The Guild MUST pay for a Trader every week. Social activities don't make the Guild any money. So if you don't sell - in my Guilds' cases 75k per week, or don't pay the 10k, you will get kicked. There is a one strike policy. This never happens with a GAH. The player never loses the opportunity to sell their items.

2) Yes, you would not need those addons with a GAH. That is true. So that's a couple addons no one needs to download anymore. You just pointed out exactly why the GAH is the better system. It allows Every player to get their item out in front of Every other player in the game simply and efficiently. The 'Buyer Pool' is in the multiple thousands. The Trader system, the buyer has to physically come to your trader just to see your product. The 'Buyer Pool' is much lower. No thought and no effort SHOULD be the system. The Game Economy is supposed to be a sideline. It's not supposed to be some major role playing event, like taking a step toward defeating Molag Bal. The whole purpose is to just allow players, who have something to sell, to get their product out to as many other players as possible, so it can BE sold. That's it. That's the whole crux of a Game Economy.

3) I'm not getting in to the one is superior to the other. I use PC and I like it. Never had a console so I can't evaluate the two. But that has no bearing on this issue. When a Company puts out a game across multiple platforms, the Company has a responsibility to make the game " the same " across all the platforms. Having specific benefits for one platform over another is just not good business sense. IMHO, if the Company allows an addon to one platform, but another platform can't download addons, the Game on the second platform should already have the basic benefits that can be downloaded with addons. The Console map should already have skyshards, books, destinations, dolmens, etc on it when you pull it up. You don't need Everything you could possibly get. But the solid core addons that make the game so much easier to just Play the game should already be part of the Console Map.

4) Yes, I have read them.

Here's a Solution

Leave the Traders Guild system in place just as it is. ADD a Global Auction House.



Now, If your first gut reaction was " But that would put the Traders out of business ! ", then we seem to have answered the question about which system the majority of the players would like to use.

IMHO

barney2525 wrote: »

Here's a Solution

Leave the Traders Guild system in place just as it is. ADD a Global Auction House.

You have highlighted THE key point, one that is being muddied by the focus on binary choice of one or the other.

The debate over majority is not the core issue. This does not have to be a zero sum game - beware the tyranny of the majority and all that. The issue here is whether there is a large (admittedly, not an exact term) of the player base that would welcome a separate form of trading. So the simple question is one of yes or no. Answering that question establishes a baseline and informs the questions that then have to be answered. The split in preference is only a factor if the percentage of players who favour one system is overwhelmingly larger than the other. That does not seem to be the case here.

There seems to be little attempt to move away from the binary debate of guilds vs AH. The question here should be is there any, technical reason why guilds cannot run in parallel to an AH system? If the answer is no, we can set the guilds vs AH debate to one side. An AH would then become nothing more than a competing system. Should the parallel system reveal major disadvantages, we would have to revisit it and either revert to guilds only, or amend the parallel system if that was possible. Will there be any such disadvantages? We don't know because the model has not been tested within the specific context of the ESO economy. Experience of an AH system in other games MIGHT give some pointers as to how an ESO AH system MIGHT work alongside guilds. Until it's actually tested, we can't predict the outcome with certainty.

If there is 1) a large portion of the player base that wants an AH and 2) an AH can run alongside guilds, is it fair to continue to deny the pro-AH player base access to such a system? If both systems can be accommodated, the answer is probably no. Yes, the issue of fairness is full of value judgements. On the other hand, one of the purposes of this forum is to assess player sentiment - albeit imperfectly - so that changes can be made, where such there is significant support for such changes, and where they can be implemented without detriment to the wider, player base.

A fair number of players want an AH. Whether they comprise the majority is irrelevant, if both systems can run in parallel. Taken to its extreme, a poll could result in a 49-51% split. At a stroke, almost half the player base would have been been denied its preference.

Guild traders are here to stay and I'm glad of that. Equally, the desire for an AH system is here, so it is here to stay too. ZoS is the only authority on what should, and should not, be debated. Until such time as ZoS instruct us to cease raising the AH question, many of us will keep on doing so.

I'm on the fence about it, although I like the current trading system, no issues with it, I can see auction houses being useful for people who don't want to trade weekly, that don't farm for gold etc. but get a lucky drop and want to make some gold.