Necromancer suggestion: add a skill for instant corpse generation

Seraphayel · June 2019

The one thing Necromancer lacks the most is a skill that lets you immediately spawn a corpse. Generally, the options to artificially create corpses are rather underwhelming and always take several seconds before I finally get what I want: a corpse to improve my skills.

Creating a corpse should be a risky thing and nothing you can do over and over again, that’s why I think it would be best to make the skill cost health instead of Magicka or Stamina. This gives Necromancers some kind of risk-and-reward gameplay which would fit the class theme and overall improve the class a lot. It would take away the problems Magicka Necromancers are facing with Blast Bones and it would give healing Necromancers better tools for their arsenal without needing to rely on Blast Bones, too.

I imagine the skill to be something like:

Flesh of my Flesh

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Self
Cost: 3000 Health
Sacrifice your health and inflict you with Minor Vulnerability for 6 seconds to create a corpse from your own flesh. The next skill that usually would consume a corpse gets enhanced by this skill and ignores every directional / positional requirements for corpses.

Morph 1:

Pile of Corpses

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Self
Cost: 3000 Health + 3000 Health over 6 seconds
You create three corpses but sacrifice 3000 health immediately and another 3000 health over the next 6 seconds. Health drain over time can stack up two times.

Morph 2:

Walking Undead

Cast Time: Instant
Target: Self
Cost: 3000 Health
Sacrifice your health and inflict you with Minor Vulnerability for 6 seconds to create a walking corpse that follows you and inflicts the nearest enemy with Minor Fracture and Minor Breach every 6 seconds for a duration of 4 seconds. Lasts for 20 seconds or until you activate a skill that gets improved by consuming a corpse.

Important note:

- These skills act exactly like Necromancer pets / corpse generating skills, e.g. you can only activate them once until they expire or you consume the corpse

- The corpse generated by this skill are always main priority corpses, e.g. they are consumed first and only you can use them

- Morph 1 would be the choice for tanks and healers whereas Morph 2 would be the choice for DPS

Your opinions?

prototypefb · June 2019

Just resummon your pet,it creates corpse

Seraphayel · June 2019

prototypefb wrote: »

Just resummon your pet,it creates corpse

The important part of my thread title is instant corpse generation and exactly what's missing at the moment for the class. I don't want to summon a pet and then wait 4, 5, 8 seconds to get my corpse.

Gothrock · June 2019

So you suggest me to lose one skill slot on the bar, damage myself and waste a GCD just to make some of my skills as useful, as the other classes skills?
No, thanks, that instant corpse generation won't be used by anyone.

UndeniablyAVG · June 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

Just resummon your pet,it creates corpse

The important part of my thread title is instant corpse generation and exactly what's missing at the moment for the class. I don't want to summon a pet and then wait 4, 5, 8 seconds to get my corpse.

If you summon a pet and then instantly summon the same pet again it will create a corpse, at least that's what I've experienced on my Magcro, not ideal but can be used. This can also be done by reapplying your resistance buff.

In my opinion the ability to create a corpse would not be worth a bar slot when I already have options to create them on demand, just my opinion.

redspecter23 · June 2019

I think the skills are balanced around that fact that you don't have instant, cost efficient, corpse generation. I suspect it was designed that way on purpose. Rotations are based on these delayed corpse drops. Blastbones then delayed access to siphon feels intentional. It's a clunky targeting mess to actually get the siphon at times, but that's another issue entirely.

MashmalloMan · June 2019

UndeniablyAVG wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

Just resummon your pet,it creates corpse

The important part of my thread title is instant corpse generation and exactly what's missing at the moment for the class. I don't want to summon a pet and then wait 4, 5, 8 seconds to get my corpse.

If you summon a pet and then instantly summon the same pet again it will create a corpse, at least that's what I've experienced on my Magcro, not ideal but can be used. This can also be done by reapplying your resistance buff.

In my opinion the ability to create a corpse would not be worth a bar slot when I already have options to create them on demand, just my opinion.

You realize the skill needs to reach half it's duration for a corpse to be made, you can't just spam an ability to spawn corpses which is what the OP wants. This is what he means by instant.

Seraphayel · June 2019

UndeniablyAVG wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

prototypefb wrote: »

Just resummon your pet,it creates corpse

The important part of my thread title is instant corpse generation and exactly what's missing at the moment for the class. I don't want to summon a pet and then wait 4, 5, 8 seconds to get my corpse.

If you summon a pet and then instantly summon the same pet again it will create a corpse, at least that's what I've experienced on my Magcro, not ideal but can be used. This can also be done by reapplying your resistance buff.

In my opinion the ability to create a corpse would not be worth a bar slot when I already have options to create them on demand, just my opinion.

You can’t, that’s why I created this thread. You can’t instantly resummon your pet to get a corpse, you need to wait at least half of its usual duration before this works. You can’t even activate the skill for that specific time frame.

The buffs for the skills granted by the corpses are not even that great to warrant this clunky and unreliable playstyle. And even if, that’s why I made my skill idea cost health so that you can’t spam it and need to calculate the risk and reward gameplay.

Grianasteri · June 2019

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

There are 3 main ways to self create a corpse, Blastbones, Spirit Mender and Skeleton mage/archer. Spirit and Skeleton create a corpse either half way through their duration if recast, or at the end of their duration.

In most contexts, there will also be a supply of corpses from defeating adds. In general, if creating corpses is worked into your rotation, you wont struggle to have them when you need them.

Managing corpses to buff Necro abilities is clearly part of the Necro mechanic and new play style required to fully realise the potential of some of the abilities and in some ways the class as a whole.

Some folk seem to be struggling to adjust to the new dynamic required, or not enjoying it at any rate. That's fine, there are plenty other classes to play!

UndeniablyAVG · June 2019

Marshall1289 wrote: »

You realize the skill needs to reach half it's duration for a corpse to be made, you can't just spam an ability to spawn corpses which is what the OP wants. This is what he means by instant.

Seems fairly clear from my original post that I didn't realize that.

Thanks for clearing it up though, still wouldn't slot the proposed ability.

ImSoPro · June 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

There are 3 main ways to self create a corpse, Blastbones, Spirit Mender and Skeleton mage/archer. Spirit and Skeleton create a corpse either half way through their duration if recast, or at the end of their duration.

In most contexts, there will also be a supply of corpses from defeating adds. In general, if creating corpses is worked into your rotation, you wont struggle to have them when you need them.

Managing corpses to buff Necro abilities is clearly part of the Necro mechanic and new play style required to fully realise the potential of some of the abilities and in some ways the class as a whole.

Some folk seem to be struggling to adjust to the new dynamic required, or not enjoying it at any rate. That's fine, there are plenty other classes to play!

Amen.

Insco851 · June 2019

Pet resummon creates a corpse. Appears to be a 6 second corpse cooldown per summon.

Seraphayel · June 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

We need a way to instantly create a corpse when we need it.

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

I’d agree with you if corpses would last longer than 3 seconds and we could strategically lay them out and use them when needed. That we can’t generate them instantly on purpose, that they must be perfectly laid out AND that they only last for a very short amount of time makes this the epitome of a clunky game mechanic that adds nothing but unnecessary complexity to a class.

The mechanic itself is neat, how it’s been implemented is not.

UppGRAYxDD · June 2019

I just necro all the corpses after I AOE bash everything to death...

Taleof2Cities · June 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

Your interpretation of current corpse management: “Clunky”

My and other forum-goers interpretation: “You need more practice on your rotation.”

Seraphayel · June 2019

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

Your interpretation of current corpse management: “Clunky”

My and other forum-goers interpretation: “You need more practice on your rotation.”

That has nothing to do with practice. To slap positional requirements and low duration of corpses onto a mechanic that’s even without that complex enough is just that.

I like Necromancer, don’t get me wrong. But the outcome for corpses is nowhere near the things you need to put into it. You might like to give 150% and achieve 75% as a result, I don’t.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · June 2019

Would be nice if we have corpse preparation perk, currently dead bodies disappear too fast to be useful, but if we can let them stay for longer, accumulate in pile that's clearly will be much more useful and less clunky when you decide use corpse.
Besides its very lore friendly for necromancer to have such skill.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Corpse_Preparation

Seraphayel · June 2019

Yeah exactly. It really mustn’t necessarily be a skill for instant corpse generation. But either the duration needs to be increased a lot or corpses are a buff we get and can use without any positional requirements. My suggestion is just a “fix“ for those problems.

Grianasteri · June 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

We need a way to instantly create a corpse when we need it.

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

I’d agree with you if corpses would last longer than 3 seconds and we could strategically lay them out and use them when needed. That we can’t generate them instantly on purpose, that they must be perfectly laid out AND that they only last for a very short amount of time makes this the epitome of a clunky game mechanic that adds nothing but unnecessary complexity to a class.

The mechanic itself is neat, how it’s been implemented is not.

I disagree. Its a mechanic that you (and many others) are not comfortable using efficiently, rather than it being clunky in and of itself. There is a difference.

I work the creation of corpses into my rotation. It is rare that I do not have a corpse available when I need it. Clearly one of the intended fundamental aspects of the Necro class, is the management of corpses. This adds a layer of complexity and raises the skill bar in general as opposed to other classes, hence some people complaining about the use of corpses.

To get the most out of the skills and buffs via corpses, you cannot simply be reactive. That is the point, you have to plan.

I do agree that corpses need to remain in place for longer, this is an issue. I think double the time would suffice.

Seraphayel · June 2019

Grianasteri wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

We need a way to instantly create a corpse when we need it.

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

I’d agree with you if corpses would last longer than 3 seconds and we could strategically lay them out and use them when needed. That we can’t generate them instantly on purpose, that they must be perfectly laid out AND that they only last for a very short amount of time makes this the epitome of a clunky game mechanic that adds nothing but unnecessary complexity to a class.

The mechanic itself is neat, how it’s been implemented is not.

I disagree. Its a mechanic that you (and many others) are not comfortable using efficiently, rather than it being clunky in and of itself. There is a difference.

I work the creation of corpses into my rotation. It is rare that I do not have a corpse available when I need it. Clearly one of the intended fundamental aspects of the Necro class, is the management of corpses. This adds a layer of complexity and raises the skill bar in general as opposed to other classes, hence some people complaining about the use of corpses.

To get the most out of the skills and buffs via corpses, you cannot simply be reactive. That is the point, you have to plan.

I do agree that corpses need to remain in place for longer, this is an issue. I think double the time would suffice.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with not being comfortable with it. It's a clunky mechanic. Even when you are a pro and can make use of it it's still a clunky mechanic (the same as weaving / animation cancelling by the way). Don't get me wrong, I really dig the general idea what they wanted to do with corpses but the result is underwhelming at best.

Obviously you have to work the creation of corpses into your rotation but as I pointed out, there are several problems with it and the tools we have at he moment:

1. very short duration of corpses
2. sharing corpses with other Necromancers
3. positional requirements for corpses
4. no way of instantly getting a corpse when you need it
5. most "reliable" source for corpses plagued by bugs/technical issues (Blast Bones)
6. outcome of corpse usage is rather small and doesn't justify all the effort

How can I plan when 1 + 3 + 4 are always an issue especially in fights where movement is mandatory? The time you might drop your corpse you might either not really need it anymore or your target just moved and your corpse lays around where it's useless.

With a skill for instant corpse generation you could directly start the fight with a buffed attack instead of waiting before you get it going.

On top of that Necromancer has several skills that benefit when there are multiple corpses but that's barely the case unless you have a ton of trash mobs. Why can't I somehow stack my own corpses (with a maximum of 5 for example) to prepare myself? That would make a complex mechanic that requires management and would benefit you. What we have now is just a lame excuse of what could have been very interesting.

IonicKai · June 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

No, we don't need another way to generate a corpse.

We need a way to instantly create a corpse when we need it.

Hindering yourself with a clunky mechanic is not a new dynamic, it’s a clunky mechanic.

I’d agree with you if corpses would last longer than 3 seconds and we could strategically lay them out and use them when needed. That we can’t generate them instantly on purpose, that they must be perfectly laid out AND that they only last for a very short amount of time makes this the epitome of a clunky game mechanic that adds nothing but unnecessary complexity to a class.

The mechanic itself is neat, how it’s been implemented is not.

I disagree. Its a mechanic that you (and many others) are not comfortable using efficiently, rather than it being clunky in and of itself. There is a difference.

I work the creation of corpses into my rotation. It is rare that I do not have a corpse available when I need it. Clearly one of the intended fundamental aspects of the Necro class, is the management of corpses. This adds a layer of complexity and raises the skill bar in general as opposed to other classes, hence some people complaining about the use of corpses.

To get the most out of the skills and buffs via corpses, you cannot simply be reactive. That is the point, you have to plan.

I do agree that corpses need to remain in place for longer, this is an issue. I think double the time would suffice.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with not being comfortable with it. It's a clunky mechanic. Even when you are a pro and can make use of it it's still a clunky mechanic (the same as weaving / animation cancelling by the way). Don't get me wrong, I really dig the general idea what they wanted to do with corpses but the result is underwhelming at best.

Obviously you have to work the creation of corpses into your rotation but as I pointed out, there are several problems with it and the tools we have at he moment:

1. very short duration of corpses
2. sharing corpses with other Necromancers
3. positional requirements for corpses
4. no way of instantly getting a corpse when you need it
5. most "reliable" source for corpses plagued by bugs/technical issues (Blast Bones)
6. outcome of corpse usage is rather small and doesn't justify all the effort

How can I plan when 1 + 3 + 4 are always an issue especially in fights where movement is mandatory? The time you might drop your corpse you might either not really need it anymore or your target just moved and your corpse lays around where it's useless.

With a skill for instant corpse generation you could directly start the fight with a buffed attack instead of waiting before you get it going.

On top of that Necromancer has several skills that benefit when there are multiple corpses but that's barely the case unless you have a ton of trash mobs. Why can't I somehow stack my own corpses (with a maximum of 5 for example) to prepare myself? That would make a complex mechanic that requires management and would benefit you. What we have now is just a lame excuse of what could have been very interesting.

#2 is not correct when referring to corpses generated by your skills. Only you can use the corpses you generated however any adds that go down are fair game for anything that consumes corpses such as other necros, werewolves, or, Templars repentance ability.