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How Nightblades Gained Damage in Elsweyr Patch - Guide to Vulnerability Calculations in PvP
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Minor vuln is awesome sauce
https://www.twitch.tv/thogardpvp/clip/HappyScrumptiousPineappleGrammarKingPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
burglar✭✭✭✭MaddPowered wrote: »how do i know you're telling the truth
I didn't watch the video, but I assume that he's going to walk you through his proof of his claim being the case. That's what a proof does/is/purpose.
A great question, instead is: If you had to know someone was telling the truth, how would you go about determining that?
Like, in other instances, how do you know if someone is telling the truth? What is truth? You know... socrates drank hemlocke for such questions...Edited by burglar on June 16, 2019 4:22AMBosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bow simply doesn't do enough damage in PvP to use it it as anything but a support weapon.
Actually bow doesn’t do enough damage, period.
In pve the rotation is a rain of arrows and caltrops, then switch to a different weapon.
People spammed snipe, yes, but really there is no other solid shot type ability in the weapon tree. I mean from range with a bow, what other direct single target attack is there? Just spam heavy or light attack’s?
There is crushing weapon from psijic. But I agree, bow needs to lose snipe and replace it with a proper spammable. Swapping snipe and rapid fire and adjusting morphs, costs and/or dmg should work0 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bow simply doesn't do enough damage in PvP to use it it as anything but a support weapon.
Actually bow doesn’t do enough damage, period.
In pve the rotation is a rain of arrows and caltrops, then switch to a different weapon.
People spammed snipe, yes, but really there is no other solid shot type ability in the weapon tree. I mean from range with a bow, what other direct single target attack is there? Just spam heavy or light attack’s?
There is crushing weapon from psijic. But I agree, bow needs to lose snipe and replace it with a proper spammable. Swapping snipe and rapid fire and adjusting morphs, costs and/or dmg should work
What will happen to Ballista then?0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭kylewwefan wrote: »I’d have to agree it made logical sense. In PvE, fracture is always gonna be given to you by the tank; minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer; and minor vulnerability may or may not be applied?
Not all PvE is done in groups.
There is exactly one place in PvE where those changes matter and which is not done in a group: vMSA
And this content is heavily outdated and not made for the DPS we have nowadys....
So fracture is NOT "always gonna be given to you by the tank" and neither will "minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer". Got it. Your OPINON of something being outdated is irrelevant especially as VMA still drops best in slot gear.
If we were to say take away self heals from a class and give the excuse 'well a healer will be giving you heals and a tank will protecting you from damage, so it's not a nerf', the argument would be laughable on its face.
NB's had the ability to do something, that thing was taken away, that's a nerf, plain and simple. Saying another class will give it to you is just being disingenuous at best. And it also does not help the times in trials where you have to take a portal to another instance and burn down a mob in a timely manner. You don't always have the benefit of having a tank or healer go through the portal with you.
Your argument basically is, "NBs play great, as long as there are other people around to pick up the classes shortcomings".
But yet someone just beat vma in the best time posted as a NB and was 20 seconds away from having the max score you could possibly get........... Took him 22 minutes and some seconds.
Woe is me as a NB DPS unwilling to adapt like every other class has had to in this game.
As far as you complaining about your class gap closer being clunky that offers vulnerability, templars would like speak with you lol. Topple charge has been bugged since launch on console where you get stuck in the animation never close the gap and have a delay before you can cast anything else lol, yet it offers nothing when it does work except a stun. Which a NB gets through it's passives as well. So I really don't know what your upset about
I play brawlblade in pvp and let me tell you it is very far from being weak, I'm sorry if your version of NB is weak but maybe you need to adapt just like everyone else?
Btw you want to see nerfs, look at templar? Just look at our patch notes this patch lol. Nerf Nerf Nerf Nerf forumblades don't understand that nightblades had to much damage got a slap on the wrist and damage shifted a bit to crying here then got buffs. Look necro was released klunky bad magic side, moves bugged, and they weren't worked on at all during their dlc because you forumblades cried about a slap on the wrist lol.Edited by Kidgangster101 on June 16, 2019 6:59AM0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kylewwefan wrote: »I’d have to agree it made logical sense. In PvE, fracture is always gonna be given to you by the tank; minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer; and minor vulnerability may or may not be applied?
Not all PvE is done in groups.
There is exactly one place in PvE where those changes matter and which is not done in a group: vMSA
And this content is heavily outdated and not made for the DPS we have nowadys....
So fracture is NOT "always gonna be given to you by the tank" and neither will "minor Berserk could or should be given to you from a healer". Got it. Your OPINON of something being outdated is irrelevant especially as VMA still drops best in slot gear.
If we were to say take away self heals from a class and give the excuse 'well a healer will be giving you heals and a tank will protecting you from damage, so it's not a nerf', the argument would be laughable on its face.
NB's had the ability to do something, that thing was taken away, that's a nerf, plain and simple. Saying another class will give it to you is just being disingenuous at best. And it also does not help the times in trials where you have to take a portal to another instance and burn down a mob in a timely manner. You don't always have the benefit of having a tank or healer go through the portal with you.
Your argument basically is, "NBs play great, as long as there are other people around to pick up the classes shortcomings".
That's what i call group play tbh...buffs and debuffs are part of this. and tbh especially those stronger one should be seperated from dps-skills you would slot anyway.
To the part of vMSA being outdated...this content is like 3,5 years old. Back then a DPS was called good when he was able to do ~30k DPS in dungeons/trials if really good maybe a bit more. That's nowhere close to what we see now. And don't let me start about how weak stamina was back then in such an instance (stam got buffed an update later which made msa easy for them)
Stamblades are not the bottom of DPS in PvE and are stronger than most magicka builds and all of them should have a kinda easy time doing vMSA if played correctly. If you need major fracture, slot mark target. You still have the luxury of major fracture without S/B....
Same goes for special instances in trials. Adapt for it you'll be fine...Edited by Destruent on June 16, 2019 7:01AMNoobplar0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bow simply doesn't do enough damage in PvP to use it it as anything but a support weapon.
Actually bow doesn’t do enough damage, period.
In pve the rotation is a rain of arrows and caltrops, then switch to a different weapon.
People spammed snipe, yes, but really there is no other solid shot type ability in the weapon tree. I mean from range with a bow, what other direct single target attack is there? Just spam heavy or light attack’s?
There is crushing weapon from psijic. But I agree, bow needs to lose snipe and replace it with a proper spammable. Swapping snipe and rapid fire and adjusting morphs, costs and/or dmg should work
What will happen to Ballista then?
It either becomes deleted and the morph in its place will be something unique like a buff towards hawk eye (For example. targets affected by the new morph of rapid fire are marked. Marked targets allow you to generate an extra x stacks of hawkeye against them for y seconds similar to how focused aim used to work with the range increase mark), or it becomes a snipe morph where you lose burst dmg for more dmg overtime, which would mean one of the snipe morphs would get deleted.
With swapping snipe and rapid fire, bow gets a respectable spammable and a ult for burst. Of course there will need to be some reworkings for the morphs and costs for the skills/ults.0 -
eso_lytw8✭✭✭NB just isn't as fun to play anymore imo. It feels like there's just something off this patch. I jumped on my Stam sorc and my new necro and had a much better experience with them than I got with my NB. Just my opinion though...
I agree completely. Its a shame my NB is sitting on a shelf, actually I have 4 nightblades sitting on shelf (tank, healer, magblade, and stamblade). To me class performance isn't just dps it is how it feels. And my blades just don't feel like anything anymore. I'm glad that many people are happy with performance and to them it makes the class.
My main has always been my stamblade. First character 4 years ago. We've been through a lot together, but the new stamblade class just feels awkward to me. I do think it hits console a lot harder because we can't insta change skills to match the situation, instead we have to basically run one setup all the time. So no mashing a button in between VMA waves to pull up the fracture set then switch back. Its crazy seeing that record setting run seeing skills swapped as the boss rounds come up....just crazy. I think if console could do that the class would feel much better. I'm not sure the devs consider the diverse population when making class changes.
On the bright side I too am finding my stamsorc and stamcro feeling good and having a nice identify. My stamden and stamdk also feel good from an identity perspective. I just don't know what the heck my nightblade is.
Lytw8
< Xbox NA PVE >0 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭TheRealSniker wrote: »While Minor Berserk becomes just as strong in nCP as Minor Vulnerability, Major Fracture still stays behind those both buffs.
Therefor I cannot support your claim unless you provide me some solid numbers and explenations on how and where you tested it.
Tested extensively on stream against 6M target dummy.
Baseline SA non-crit was established.
Adding fracture: SA was boosted 13.7%
Adding Beserk: SA was boosted 5.8%
Adding fracture & beserk: SA was boosted 20%
Adding vulnerability: SA was boosted 11%
then completed test in duel format against opponent. same results but %'s reduced across the board.
beserk is poop. no doubt. it is not an 8% dmg increase. fracture is not poop. vulnerability is more not poop than poop.
at the end of the day - the nerf to SA was the biggest hit. compensating with ambush vulnerability helps but at the expense of real estate on the bar. that real estate for me, was a drop of shuffle / rally and conversion instead to forward momentum.
you can get back to same damage levels for sure... but it is not inconsequential the changes necessary to achieve.
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susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheRealSniker wrote: »While Minor Berserk becomes just as strong in nCP as Minor Vulnerability, Major Fracture still stays behind those both buffs.
Therefor I cannot support your claim unless you provide me some solid numbers and explenations on how and where you tested it.
Tested extensively on stream against 6M target dummy.
Baseline SA non-crit was established.
Adding fracture: SA was boosted 13.7%
Adding Beserk: SA was boosted 5.8%
Adding fracture & beserk: SA was boosted 20%
Adding vulnerability: SA was boosted 11%
then completed test in duel format against opponent. same results but %'s reduced across the board.
beserk is poop. no doubt. it is not an 8% dmg increase. fracture is not poop. vulnerability is more not poop than poop.
at the end of the day - the nerf to SA was the biggest hit. compensating with ambush vulnerability helps but at the expense of real estate on the bar. that real estate for me, was a drop of shuffle / rally and conversion instead to forward momentum.
you can get back to same damage levels for sure... but it is not inconsequential the changes necessary to achieve.
PvE Dummy is very very different from PvP damage. Battlespirit highly devaluates Major Fracture and nearly doubles the value of Minor Vulnerability0 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Is this a nerf thread ? I am confused...
Nah, more like info on the nb situation after the changes, to say it is not "rip" but still can do what it could before, but with small changes to how you do it.
In general i feel people are often too sensitive on others ratings/opinions on what classes/specs are currently strong and what are "weak", people follow the fotm too much without even testing, some abandon their main even they enjoy playing the most just because some say its "rip" class lol. People. *shrugs*
Well the gank build is rip.
Lots of NBs out there were playing glass canon style. Going stealth and exercising one-shot combo on other players.
They lost that upfront damage and the upfront debuff and that is a big RIP to those builds...Edited by Didgerion on June 17, 2019 8:26PM1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭I will always love my nightblades I don’t need nor care about the other classes 🙂0 -
TheRealSniker✭✭✭✭✭
✭grannas211 wrote: »Ambush still feels terrible in use to me though
Takes some time to get used to, but I agree sometimes the skill feels useless.TheRealSniker wrote: »While Minor Berserk becomes just as strong in nCP as Minor Vulnerability, Major Fracture still stays behind those both buffs.
Therefor I cannot support your claim unless you provide me some solid numbers and explenations on how and where you tested it.
Tested extensively on stream against 6M target dummy.
Baseline SA non-crit was established.
Adding fracture: SA was boosted 13.7%
Adding Beserk: SA was boosted 5.8%
Adding fracture & beserk: SA was boosted 20%
Adding vulnerability: SA was boosted 11%
then completed test in duel format against opponent. same results but %'s reduced across the board.
beserk is poop. no doubt. it is not an 8% dmg increase. fracture is not poop. vulnerability is more not poop than poop.
at the end of the day - the nerf to SA was the biggest hit. compensating with ambush vulnerability helps but at the expense of real estate on the bar. that real estate for me, was a drop of shuffle / rally and conversion instead to forward momentum.
you can get back to same damage levels for sure... but it is not inconsequential the changes necessary to achieve.
Im also using a Maul and the SA pen on my tests therefor I dont get the full value of my Fracture on my builds, as I mentioned like a thousand times already.
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mursie✭✭✭✭✭TheRealSniker wrote: »
Im also using a Maul and the SA pen on my tests therefor I dont get the full value of my Fracture on my builds, as I mentioned like a thousand times already.
same0
