Terrible sustain on Necro tank

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

fellow tanks,

I'm wondering how you are experiencing this. I levelled and geared up a necro tank just the same way as my dk tank. When running content I'm used to such as vCR+2, vSS HM, DLC dungeons etc I notice I'm struggling greatly with stamina sustain while not permablocking where my dk on the opposite side of the spectrum can basically permablock and still has enough sustain.

Especially the fights with no adds dying renders our passive useless whereas the dk passives still keep working.

Are you struggling with this as well ? I heard some tanks are running with 2 or even 3 feat cost reduction glyphs on their jewelry etc. What are you doing to adapt and work around this problem ?

Jazz_Funk · June 2019

I think my Necro Tank has a hole in his armor that leaks Stamina!

mann9753b16_ESO · June 2019

I never really had that problem…

Then again, I run a Magica Tank necro, so my Stamina is only used for blocking and break free, all other abilities consume magica, and since most of them last a long time, I am never really oom.

My normal tanking rotation is taunting when needed, cast Blastbones whenever ready, keep my 2 leech abilities up for extra stamina and Magica regen, keep my Mage and pocket Healer Ghost up, Keep they Magica scythe heal running and keep Graveyard up. There is plenty of time to get a Heavy attack of either my Sword or my Staff of when I am in danger of running low on one ressource, and if I am running low on both, I get a second or two of the Psijic meditation (more Stam/Magica regen morph) in after I taunt and cast a Blastbone.

RouDeR · June 2019

Necro sux in PvP and PvE big time (without the ultimates)
You need to focus HARD ON ULTIGEN builds to be even remotely close to what Warden can do in terms of tanking performance

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

@ZOS_Finn

I hope you are aware of these problems. If it's being addressed already it would be nice to get your feedback.

The latest content is very dense on incoming dmge and with all the server instance lag going around dropping block for heavy attacks is more often than not no longer a valid option, making the difference to dk sustain in block mode even bigger

SosRuvaak · June 2019

the stamina regen on necro is really awful in general

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

What do your bars look like? Stats? Sets?

Fivefivesix · June 2019

Was having the same issues. I decided to go with a twice born set with divines so I could get to 2 boon bonus and went with stam & health recovery for now.

Its been a few days since Ive been on my necro tank but I think my stam recovery was somewhere around 1400 and the same with health. Ever since Ive done that my experience has been much better and the sustain seems on par to my DK. Funny thing though, my DK has like 975 recovery but stam sustain is perfectly fine. Using orc race on both characters.

xMovingTarget · June 2019

Not only on tank. Necros sustain in general is dogpoo.. even 2k sustain on dualwield necro is awefull. And they dared to nerf sustain on the PTS back then. totally unnecessary.

xylena_lazarow · June 2019

I leveled my Necro's Undaunted line tanking vet dungeons, the stam return on the Mortal Coil tether morph helped a lot. You get corpses from Beckoning Armor, then use Mortal Coil on those (having to find and target the corpse is a major pain and I hope ZOS addresses this).

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

Fivefivesix wrote: »

Was having the same issues. I decided to go with a twice born set with divines so I could get to 2 boon bonus and went with stam & health recovery for now.

Its been a few days since Ive been on my necro tank but I think my stam recovery was somewhere around 1400 and the same with health. Ever since Ive done that my experience has been much better and the sustain seems on par to my DK. Funny thing though, my DK has like 975 recovery but stam sustain is perfectly fine. Using orc race on both characters.

Can you please test this on maintanking vSS and vCR +0 on a typical sunday afternoon ? I'm afraid more stam recovery doesn't help there at all and that's where it hurts. Sure while running a dungeons there are enough available ways to circumvent this problem that shouldn't be there in the first place but in endgame maintanks don't have that luxury unfortunately

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I leveled my Necro's Undaunted line tanking vet dungeons, the stam return on the Mortal Coil tether morph helped a lot. You get corpses from Beckoning Armor, then use Mortal Coil on those (having to find and target the corpse is a major pain and I hope ZOS addresses this).

I started running mortal coil together with spirit mender on large single bosses. It does help a little bit indeed -but not much en definately not enough !! - if you keep it up constantly but the fact that you need to dedicate at least 1 or 2 slots to just mitigating sustain problems is just...crap.

endgame groups demand you fill your only few 'non-mandatory" slots left with debuffs and buffs for the group leaving no room for selfsustain skills such as these. Honestly it also takes the fun out of tanking completely.

All by all I feel that instead of spending slots on this I just better slot deep thoughts and get a tick or 2 from it in rather than use mortal coil. It does the job far better.

also I noticed that if total dedication to selfsustain becomes the biggest bottlneck on a necro tank during laggy permablock fights where dropping block equals a group wipe, then the best solution seems to slot the 1-hand and shield 'shield wall" ultimate and deep thoughts. When you pop those 2 together you are guaranteed resource recovery in the midst of any fight while having 30% dmge reduction from major protection of top of it.

Now that offers a true usable solution that brings me on par with my dk but then the whole point of running a necro tank has effectivily been nullified as you can't use your ultimates for anything but selfsustain...what's the point then ? Back to my dk tank it is then...pff

And ZOS, if you ever wonder why people don't want to play tanks...

Vicarra · June 2019

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

mocap · June 2019

RouDeR wrote: »

You need to focus HARD ON ULTIGEN builds to be even remotely close to what Warden can do in terms of tanking performance

Necro can't regen ultimate points while in badass form. Sad but true.

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

Vicarra wrote: »

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a link to your build perhaps ? I'd like to look into it

Aedh · June 2019

While waiting for potential changes to necro sustain (which could be a long time away), you could look into the Stonekeeper set ? It is a good monster set alternative if your stamina runs dry too quickly.

Pennytence · June 2019

While I agree that the stam sustain on the necro tank leaves a lot to be desired, I'm not sure it's as bad as you paint it here. I've tanked both Yol HM and vMoL HM on mine so far, and she does fine. Swapping to an ice staff backbar (something that I've always despised on my dk since she's so magicka deprived) helped a lot there.

Would I have liked to have better sustain? Hells yes. Sometimes I catch myself thinking "my dk would do so much better here", but so far I'm enjoying the necro far more in other aspects of the game so I'll live with it.

Kinda unrelated, kinda not. If Zos wants to do a quick fix to necro tank sustain, fix the gorram silver leash. Wasting stam on that abysmal skill isn't helping sustain one bit.

Vicarra · June 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a link to your build perhaps ? I'd like to look into it

I don't even know where/how people do that, sorry. If you have a recommended website, I'll give it a go.

D0PAMINE · June 2019

My DK Tank has about 2400 Mag recovery buffed, so anything lower than that feels harder to work with unless im playing that class exclusivly and not swapping around.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

Vicarra wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a link to your build perhaps ? I'd like to look into it

I don't even know where/how people do that, sorry. If you have a recommended website, I'll give it a go.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

I run a tankcer, a Breton. She does great and I have no issues with Stam. 36k health. 21k mag and Stam. Wearing ebon/yolna. Have shadowrend on for funsies but of course Lord warden for real stuff.

Bars look like-

Front bar s/b

Mortal coil, hungry scythe, necrotic potency, heroic slash, pierce armor, ulti ravaging Goliath

Back bar ice staff, infused crusher of course.

Spirit guardian, beckoning armor, agony tortem, silver leash/inner fire, elemental blockade, ulti warhorn.

here is a combat metric from the game-

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

Aedh wrote: »

While waiting for potential changes to necro sustain (which could be a long time away), you could look into the Stonekeeper set ? It is a good monster set alternative if your stamina runs dry too quickly.

it is. I was wearing already in fact before writing this

profundidob16_ESO · June 2019

Vicarra wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a link to your build perhaps ? I'd like to look into it

I don't even know where/how people do that, sorry. If you have a recommended website, I'll give it a go.

the "superstar" addon for instance lets you take a screenshot of all your stats.

also this site:

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Vicarra wrote: »

I think the biggest reason you're struggling is given in the very first line of the OP. You're trying to play it as you would a DK. Abandoning the stamDK meta would be the best bet - I am playing a magtank necro following some interesting discussions with a friend who plays a "Paladin" magtank Templar and ended up with something between a Sorc and Templar magtank. All I need stam for is breaking free, blocking and dodge rolling mechanics. Makes sustain much more manageable.

That's an interesting perspective. Do you have a link to your build perhaps ? I'd like to look into it

I don't even know where/how people do that, sorry. If you have a recommended website, I'll give it a go.

the "superstar" addon for instance lets you take a screenshot of all your stats.

so does the newest version of combat metrics, see my above post.

Kalgert · June 2019

I can't say I have any issues, as I haven't leveled my Necro Tank to 50 yet. Although I am maintaining a pretty decent way of keeping my Stamina up there. Using a combination of Ice Staff and using the Stamina Morph on my Scythe to get enemies off balanced and then Heavy Attack them for big Stamina returns. Works quite well so far.

Iskiab · June 2019

Really? I’m doing vet dungeons and having no sustain issues at all. Shorter encounters then trials, so maybe that’s why?

I have mortal coil but haven’t been using it, I’ve been loading up on other skill line abilities (like dw) just to level them up.