POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?

Kagukan · June 2019

The biggest design stain in the game is the auction system.

Arrodisia · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

Kagukan wrote: »

The biggest design stain in the game is the auction system.

Agree 100 percent. They would get so many more players if they would just fix this stain of a issue.

Red_Feather · June 2019

I try to avoid using it. It is an awkward system. Thank goodness for tamrieltradecentre.com.

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

Red_Feather wrote: »

I try to avoid using it. It is an awkward system. Thank goodness for tamrieltradecentre.com.

You know it is bad game design when you got to go to a website just to get what you want.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

The biggest design stain in the game is the auction system.

Agree 100 percent. They would get so many more players if they would just fix this stain of a issue.

Please elaborate on how you think a global auction house would improve the economy?

This “stain of an issue” is the only reason that casual players can afford important gear.

The “fix” would spiral the economy into a place where important items become near impossible to perform and sink the “only kind of good” items into costing about 1 gold more than using the vendor.

Please, please, please give me a fact based answer why this would not happen?

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

I posted this in the other thread about auction houses. Thought it was apt here as well.

“A global auction house makes everything you fear exponentially worse and easier to exploit.

Using XBox prices “resin” costs just under 7000 gold. There may be too many available to corner the market but let’s, for fun, say that in Mournhold, Elden Root and Rwalka there are a total of 300 resins available for purchase. For 2.1 million gold 1 person could buy all of them and relist them for any price they want. This isn’t happening though because everyone knows that there are other places where 7000 cost resins can be found.

Conversely let’s say that there is a global auction house with 1500 resins available for purchase. That’s 10.5 million in gold which, sad to say, is a sum that hundreds of people have available today.

Let’s even be silly and say that there are 10,000 resins available across the platform. That’s 70 million in gold it would cost. A ridiculous sum that only a handful could muster but those people do exist. A GAH would allow those folks to buy 100% of those resins at cost and then they would control the entire market. You think things are bad now? How about when that person decides that the “fair” price for resins is now 20,000 each? Because THAT is what would happen to every valuable resource in the game.

Anything not deemed worthy of being hoarded would then plummet in price essentially making the vendor cost the likely return on your time. That impen curiass you were selling for 3000, congrats, it’s now worth 58 gold.

Right now the insane leg work required to truly corner a market is what keeps prices stable. Allowing an ESO billionaire to buyout the entire supply of a vital item in the click of one button would have disastrous implications on the “little guy”, not help them.”

There are more than just a handful with the capital to do just this ^

They have the capital, but the point is that they can't do it with a click of a button, no matter how much gold they have, because of the insane legwork required. And that is why you don't see it happening. It can still happen on a few special items, but only for short term profit, and it is very limited.

I was agreeing with you. I meant there are more than a few who could do exactly what you wrote if we had GH

LOL me being one of them.

ah, yes, then we are in agreement. With an AH there'd be plenty of players wealthy enough to pull it off and get even wealthier.

Maggi12 · June 2019

what about mixed variant?
usual guild traders + global auction house for 'special items'?

what means 'special items?
maybe rare? expensive? only gear?

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

The biggest design stain in the game is the auction system.

Agree 100 percent. They would get so many more players if they would just fix this stain of a issue.

Please elaborate on how you think a global auction house would improve the economy?

This “stain of an issue” is the only reason that casual players can afford important gear.

The “fix” would spiral the economy into a place where important items become near impossible to perform and sink the “only kind of good” items into costing about 1 gold more than using the vendor.

Please, please, please give me a fact based answer why this would not happen?

I will happily explain why.

It is a ease of use system. A reason why many MMOS use a global one. It saves times for players, and many players play MMOS for selling, crafting, and a fast ease of use way of doing things.

With a global AH. Players would put in more sets besides just the best of the best sets, and expand the system. It evens the playing field. Right now you got trade guilds control the market.

Global AH system makes it where anyone can use the system easier, and takes the power of the market out of guilds. That is a good thing.

This game has three issues.

It runs like junk.
Broken Skills.
and its unfriendly AH system that puts too much power into guilds hands.

When you got to do outside means just to use a system it is bad game design.

It is time to take the power away from guilds and make a global market.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Kagukan wrote: »

The biggest design stain in the game is the auction system.

Agree 100 percent. They would get so many more players if they would just fix this stain of a issue.

Please elaborate on how you think a global auction house would improve the economy?

This “stain of an issue” is the only reason that casual players can afford important gear.

The “fix” would spiral the economy into a place where important items become near impossible to perform and sink the “only kind of good” items into costing about 1 gold more than using the vendor.

Please, please, please give me a fact based answer why this would not happen?

I will happily explain why.

It is a ease of use system. A reason why many MMOS use a global one. It saves times for players, and many players play MMOS for selling, crafting, and a fast ease of use way of doing things.

With a global AH. Players would put in more sets besides just the best of the best sets, and expand the system. It evens the playing field. Right now you got trade guilds control the market.

Global AH system makes it where anyone can use the system easier, and takes the power of the market out of guilds. That is a good thing.

This game has three issues.

It runs like junk.
Broken Skills.
and its unfriendly AH system that puts too much power into guilds hands.

When you got to do outside means just to use a system it is bad game design.

It is time to take the power away from guilds and make a global market.

Thank you for the measured and polite response. Please allow me to retort.

“It is a ease of use system. A reason why many MMOS use a global one. It saves times for players, and many players play MMOS for selling, crafting, and a fast ease of use way of doing things.”

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

“With a global AH. Players would put in more sets besides just the best of the best sets, and expand the system. It evens the playing field. Right now you got trade guilds control the market. ”

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

“Global AH system makes it where anyone can use the system easier, and takes the power of the market out of guilds. That is a good thing.”

- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

“This game has three issues.

It runs like junk.
Broken Skills.
and its unfriendly AH system that puts too much power into guilds hands. ”

- irrelevant, irrelevant and your idea takes the power out of the guild’s hands, yes, but it firmly plants it in the hands of the leaders of those guilds.

Your ideas come from a good spot but those billionaires will exist no matter what we would hope for.

Tigerseye · June 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Another auction house poll? The system is fine, but needs some work to make it more universally accessible, such as:
Disbanding guild gives trader to 2nd highest bidder.
More stalls in busy zones.
Maybe a ranked trader bid, highest x# of bids get spots instead of individual stalls.

Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...

There are a few reasons we should get one. I work a 40+ hour job as do many others, we pay bills in real life. We play a game to escape reality for a little bit to have fun, but in this game I have to pay "bills" to use the trader guild plus in some guilds sell a certain amount of items. Dues for trader guilds use to be 5k a few weeks ago, then went up to 10k, then went up to 15k a week to use a trader. Soon it will be 20k then be 25k then go up to 30k........ See my point on how this is flawed for most people? The people that like to farm and sell items might not have time to meet guild requirements of selling x amount of dollars or be kicked. We shouldn't have to pay "bills" to use a feature of the game because it is flawed. If I want to sell an item in real life on say eBay I make an account and just sell it, I don't sign up pay them a weekly fee for the ability to sell just one item I want to sell.

How about guild leaders that make multiple fake accounts and have a level 7 toon as the leader of a guild? They make so much money because they run 5+ trader guilds? But people say guild masters don't make a profit....... If they don't make a profit why are they running so many guilds? They do it out of the kindness of their heart?

Or let's talk.about guilds that will buy up entire zones with fake traders so they can set the market for that area. That isn't anything different than an auction house right? Or the fact that you can go all over the world to buy items for cheap then sell them at the monopolized areas were prices are high and you make huge amounts of money just re selling everything you bought for cheap?

Each system has flaws but the difference is with a global auction house it allows everyone the same ability to sell items. In both you can manipulate the system but at least it gives the people that don't make much gold a chance to make gold. This game is like real life, the rich get richer lol.

With a global ah we get 1 set price for an item. With the current system we have the "bad" trader areas that under price their items because they are in a low traffic area. And we have "good" spots where people can buy from those "bad" trader spots and price the item for double to tripple what they bought it for in the "good" trader spots. If we had a global AH it gets rid of this problem of again the rich getting richer because they manipulate the market.

Now let's look at the thing people get worried about with a auction house. Let's say I buy every single spell strategist inferno staff on the market then put them all back on the auction house for insane amounts of gold. Yes I've manipulated the market to drive it up, but guess what? Any smart person can look at the history on that item and see I paid 5k each and tried selling them for 500k each. They can just let my items sit there and wait for someone to just undercut me and drive the market back down making me waste a lot of money on items I'm having trouble moving now. With our current system no one would know that I bought all the inferno staffs to drive the price up.

So please explain to me why you think this system works again?

It doesn't really work, anymore, but if you have MM (and don't reset it too often) you would know if something was overpriced.

Someone bought all the Nord knotwork banner furnishing plans up, recently and relisted them for 500K each.

Someone in my guild noticed today and I linked my MM saying that they previously went for about 10K each.

I don't think the system works, but then I don't think centralised auction houses always work well, either.

When I played WoW, people were always buying up certain crafting items (especially) and relisting them higher.

If you needed them, to level crafting for example, you still bought them (as long as they weren't too high), but it was annoying.

Also, I used to make crafted PVP starter gear.

I'd list it and then some other seller's addon/bot would instantly cancel and relist his identical items for 1 copper less than I had listed mine for.

Even when he wasn't online.

Made it quite hard to sell things...

Then, of course, you have the nightmare system here, where buying reasonably priced furnishing mats, especially, is so incredibly time consuming and is often more-or-less impossible, now.

On the plus side, in the old days at least, if you could manage to get the mats, people in other guilds couldn't just undercut your crafted furniture by 1g and expect to automatically get the sale.

Also, I was doing fine selling stuff in a (minimum sale amount per week type) trading guild, until the gm suddenly decided to inv a lot of new players and tell everyone to cancel and relist anything that hadn't sold within 3 days.

Artifically transforming the intended store type selling environment, with a 1 month selling window, into a short term auction house, with sellers undercutting their own guildies, all the time.

My weekly sales instantly dropped from around 150K per week (sometimes more), to threatening to not even reach the 20K minimum.

At that point, my views on the whole thing began to change

It's a tough one, because there are pros and cons to both systems.

As I say, my compromise suggestion would be a centralised auction house for mats, while leaving the individual store system intact for crafted items and weaps and stuff.

However, on balance, if I had to choose between one system and the other, for everything, I would now go for a centralised auction house.

Epecially if certain gms are intent on turning their guild stores into highly competitive selling arenas and in the process are ruining everything that was good about guild stores to begin with, anyway.

I guess I'm now ready to commit...

Kagukan · June 2019

Red_Feather wrote: »

I try to avoid using it. It is an awkward system. Thank goodness for tamrieltradecentre.com.

Same. I try to avoid using it as much as possible also. In other MMO's I played with real auction systems, I used it all the time, almost daily.
TTC makes a horrible system somewhat bearable.

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

idk · June 2019

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

the current system is unfair and causes a lot of market play and price riggings, kinda like real life, but this isnt real life though

So the current system works like a vibrant economy but you do not like it working like that. Okay. Makes sense to someone I suppose.

PS: being decentralized it is much less open to market play and price rigging by design. But I assume some like to say it is because it suites their agenda.

srfrogg23 · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.

Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.

The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...

No mods on consoles and TTC works maybe 10% of the time for them. PC is not the only, nor maybe the majority of players.

I have ESO on PS4 and occasionally hop on to play that account, too. The trade prices there are absurdly high. They're much higher than PC due to the lack of mods and TTC.

Which is particularly humorous to me when i look at it. You're right, no mods or TTC on console, and those prices are horrific by comparison.

I'm sure the primary defense is from PC players who aren't seeing just how terrible of a RIP-off this system is due to the price control that they claim to be "impossible" with this system.

No one said impossible, that is a strawman argument. It is harder which is the point, not impossible.

Also would greatly reduce the socialization on the game which is one of the main reasons for guild traders.

When a game goes from individual/small auction structures to a global one it loses a massive social network of player interaction in the process. EQ1 being one of the most egregious examples.

If changing to a global ah reduces socialization, then you all obviously didn't want to socialize that much to begin with. No big loss as far as I'm concerned. You'll find something else to talk about.

You sound a bit anti social to start here. Also an MMO needs mechanisms to create social interaction.

What seems to be your implied premise is that people should just want to socialize. However, those types of people generally will use tools, just for that purpose, like IRC which is infinitely better than an MMO if that is all you are about.

So yes MMOs need mechanisms to encourage socialization, that is kind of the point.

Is it really such a strange concept that people would socialize without being given an excuse to do so? You imply that you want to socialize but also suggest that you won't unless someone else creates an artificial reason for you to do so.

I socialize just fine. In fact, I'm doing it right now. I don't even need an excuse

Dude you called yourself out as anti social, I quoted you just above this post. Try to at least be consistent in your position

You very much misinterpreted what I said. I never said I was anti-social. If I was, I wouldn't talk on the forums. I'm very social.

Girl_Number8 · June 2019

The ghost traders are an issue that needs to be looked at but a global ah would be a disaster.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.

If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.

It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.

Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.

So I ask you, what would you prefer?

Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...

Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?

It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.

Cously · June 2019

I rather have an AH than the current system but trading guilds are so fun managed and be a part of that I can live without AH.

Tigerseye · June 2019

Maggi12 wrote: »

what about mixed variant?
usual guild traders + global auction house for 'special items'?

what means 'special items?
maybe rare? expensive? only gear?

No, that would be the worst of all worlds.

Think of the real world (as it was before the internet) - you had warehouses and wholesalers for raw materials and then manufacturers to make the finished goods and retailers to sell them.

It was like that for a reason.

I know you're thinking of the high end auction type thing, for rare goods, but providing a rarified place for selling posh stuff isn't the main issue here.

Skwor · June 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.

Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁

Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.

Goregrinder · June 2019

No, we don't want WoW. If you want WoW, reactivate your WoW account and play it.

Skwor · June 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.

Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.

The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...

No mods on consoles and TTC works maybe 10% of the time for them. PC is not the only, nor maybe the majority of players.

I have ESO on PS4 and occasionally hop on to play that account, too. The trade prices there are absurdly high. They're much higher than PC due to the lack of mods and TTC.

Which is particularly humorous to me when i look at it. You're right, no mods or TTC on console, and those prices are horrific by comparison.

I'm sure the primary defense is from PC players who aren't seeing just how terrible of a RIP-off this system is due to the price control that they claim to be "impossible" with this system.

No one said impossible, that is a strawman argument. It is harder which is the point, not impossible.

Also would greatly reduce the socialization on the game which is one of the main reasons for guild traders.

When a game goes from individual/small auction structures to a global one it loses a massive social network of player interaction in the process. EQ1 being one of the most egregious examples.

If changing to a global ah reduces socialization, then you all obviously didn't want to socialize that much to begin with. No big loss as far as I'm concerned. You'll find something else to talk about.

You sound a bit anti social to start here. Also an MMO needs mechanisms to create social interaction.

What seems to be your implied premise is that people should just want to socialize. However, those types of people generally will use tools, just for that purpose, like IRC which is infinitely better than an MMO if that is all you are about.

So yes MMOs need mechanisms to encourage socialization, that is kind of the point.

Is it really such a strange concept that people would socialize without being given an excuse to do so? You imply that you want to socialize but also suggest that you won't unless someone else creates an artificial reason for you to do so.

I socialize just fine. In fact, I'm doing it right now. I don't even need an excuse

Dude you called yourself out as anti social, I quoted you just above this post. Try to at least be consistent in your position

You very much misinterpreted what I said. I never said I was anti-social. If I was, I wouldn't talk on the forums. I'm very social.

A synonym for Misanthropy is reclusive, the word's core meaning is a general dislike for humanity.

If anything you should be more careful in what words you use to describe yourself as opposed to blaming others for properly understanding what the words actually mean.

Arrodisia · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.

Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁

Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.

We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.

One of the problems with forums is this. We can voice our opinion, but too many people take one sentence out of a comment and twist it to fit into their own storyline to defend the worst problems in the game. They, basically, take a side before they even finish reading it many times. Instead of reading the entire thread, objectively, and commenting more truthfully on matters. As long as that continues, ZOS will not be able to fix real issues like the server problems, bugs, imbalance, the guild trader system, .........................

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.

Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁

Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.

Truth.

You bring up a great point. Some people do put a lot of time, effort and brain power into running their business as, well, a business.

You have the whales. Somewhere out there is the Bill Gates of ESO. That player has untold billions, possibly HUNDREDS of billions, who can set the market however he/she feels. If they are benevolent maybe we get low prices. If they are ruthless, probably not.

Then you get the guys like me. I’ve probably made 50 million gold over the past few years, which is ironic because I only have like 500k available since most of it is in raw materials I’ve hoarded or sunk into motifs. Regardless I’ve been able to make a thriving ESO business by trying to wholesale to the whales, not compete with them. I’ve yet to meet a whale who will leave 10% profit on the table. When I undercut them it’s specifically designed to be low enough for a whale to buy and flip it. I make my money and the man gets his piece. Maybe I can’t afford every mansion in the game, but I got everything I could ever want.

Then below me are the people who just want to sell 1 item. Well, that sounds great but have you studied the market? On console you have to. I have, and that’s why I don’t post items that won’t sell.

I’m definitely not making spreadsheets or doing profit/loss assessments, but many whales sure are. If I, who had made a mint at this, wouldn’t dare challenge them, how would a person who doesn’t take selling seriously even begin to?

Making everything globally easier to access makes it even easier on the whales. They have done a great job building their businesses but the GAH would essentially be a massive tax (or time in this case) cut to the rich. Except in this case you’re not gonna get the benefits of what a tax cut should do - create jobs - because there are no jobs to create.

TLDR - some of you guys are acting like you can compete with Amazon Corporate from your EBay account. It’s not feasible.

Skwor · June 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.

Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁

Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.

We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.

Yes AND if that level of effort and coordination is an issue now just imagine how bad it will be when it only requires 1 person and a 5 second click of a button in a GAH to corner and resale market items.

SGT_Wolfe101st · June 2019

Has it been a month already since this same question/poll/suggestion has been brought up? I mean there is beating a dead horse and then there is this particular topic. The general consensus is that most are happy with our guild system. Not perfect, far from it but it works and considering everything that is going on with the game-state right now perhaps their (ZoS) efforts would be better spent elsewhere. Looking at you EU=PC server...

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

double

That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.

I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.

Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.

Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁

Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.

We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.

Yes AND if that level of effort and coordination is an issue now just imagine how bad it will be when it only requires 1 person and a 5 second click of a button in a GAH to corner and resale market items.

Exactly. This person gets it.

srfrogg23 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.

If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.

It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.

Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.

So I ask you, what would you prefer?

Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...

Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?

It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.

In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.

Tandor · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

TLDR - some of you guys are acting like you can compete with Amazon Corporate from your EBay account. It’s not feasible.

No, some just want to be able to sell stuff casually like on Ebay without having to become a major shareholder in Amazon Corporate in order to sell their stuff.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

srfrogg23 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.

If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.

It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.

Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.

So I ask you, what would you prefer?

Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...

Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?

It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.

In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.

What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.