[Spoiler] How is Sai Sahan back?

Vuldovahkriid · June 2019

lordrichter wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Season of the Dragon is terrible for anyone who wants a coherent storyline for the entire game.

Elsweyr does not really have a definite spot in the timeline. It can come before the events of the main quest. I don't think any reference is made to Molag Bal or the resolution of the Soulburst. There might be an offhand reference to what happened to Varen, indicating that the events of the main quest have already started.

I am thinking that Firor is right. Elsweyr could be a perfect starting place for new characters. If they retcon future interactions with certain characters that will be met later so that the character is recognized, then I think the best place for Elsweyr is prior to the main story.

The only outlier in that is Sai Sahan. He cannot be in Elsweyr in all cases: before, during, and after the main quest. They should have left him out of this one.

There is a book that mentions the end of the Planemeld near Riverhold if I'm not mistaken. So it would definitely be set after the events of the MQ/IC.

Jaimeh · June 2019

First of all: your title is a spoiler in itself. I hadn't watched the stream live, but thanks to you I knew about Sai beforehands... don't be that person, you spoiled the surprise of seeing him in the trailer. Secondly, the story simply assumes the Vestige sacrificed the Prophet, and also during the Elsweyr quest the Vestige does ask Tharn about the other companions, to which he responds that they haven't kept in touch, but nothing to imply they are dead, so it's very likely that one of then returns, especially when something as major as dragons threatens Tamriel. As for those who chose Sai as the sacrifice, that will be immersion breaking, but perhaps the game will find a way to justify it and not just gloos over it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · June 2019

Druid40 wrote: »

OK, real talk, why would ANYONE sacrifice ANY companion other than Varen? I would understand if Abnur was a choice, but he was not.

While I didn't sacrifice Sai myself, I could see someone deciding that stuffing the Amulet of Kings in a tomb when we're trying to hide it from a powerful necromancer was an execution-worthy offense.

SantieClaws · June 2019

Perhaps it's Mannimarco that brings him back somehow … for some nasty reason.

So he's not the Sai we knew …

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Thrawniel · June 2019

mann9753b16_ESO wrote: »

Spoiler: Abnur Tharn didnt run of with the Amulet of Kings to use it, he spend all his time (that he didnt spend accidently releasing Dragons) finding a way to free the soul we sacrificed.

I absolutely love the idea. He tried hard to redeem himself, after all.

Probably when Sai/Lyris/Varen returned, Abnur was all like 'Ugh. I did not mean this to happen. Absolutely. Such an unexpected outcome! I just tried to use the amulet for its power. Of course I did. That what I was doing all this time. Who do you think I am? Some hero? Hah! I just failed again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You're welcome, by the way. Even if I absolutely totally was not trying to bring you back'

Ratzkifal · June 2019

wishlist14 wrote: »

Your title warns about spoiler but then is a spoiler....since you actually mention sai sahan is back lol Maybe I am confused.
I always enjoy zos stories so im sire it will be fun and interesting.

@wishlist14 Since the official announcements say that Sai Sahan is back and the trailer clearly shows him, I don't count that as a spoiler. But yes, I wasn't sure how to call the thread since I am indeed implying that something happened to Sai Sahan. The spoiler in the title is just about what actually happened to him in the main quest.

LordVox · June 2019

Maybe they collected all the Dragon balls and asked Shenron to bring him back

Ratzkifal · June 2019

Jaimeh wrote: »

First of all: your title is a spoiler in itself. I hadn't watched the stream live, but thanks to you I knew about Sai beforehands... don't be that person, you spoiled the surprise of seeing him in the trailer. Secondly, the story simply assumes the Vestige sacrificed the Prophet, and also during the Elsweyr quest the Vestige does ask Tharn about the other companions, to which he responds that they haven't kept in touch, but nothing to imply they are dead, so it's very likely that one of then returns, especially when something as major as dragons threatens Tamriel. As for those who chose Sai as the sacrifice, that will be immersion breaking, but perhaps the game will find a way to justify it and not just gloos over it.

@Jaimeh Indeed, but when ZOS says it and shows it in their own articles, I'd say that him being back is not a spoiler. Besides, from my title alone you don't know he is in the trailer too, so it'll still be somewhat surprising to see him, even if you read this post. It was not my intention to spoil anything, which is why I didn't name the thread "how is Sai Sahan alive?" or "Why is Sai in the trailer?" I was trying my best to come up with something that doesn't give too much away but also explains the purpose of the thread. All we know right now is that he is back and that he -spoiler- possibly died in the main quest. That's what the spoiler in the title is meant for. Personally, seeing Sai in the trailer immediately made me think of that question and I felt like it would have been better without him being there as long as we don't have the justification/explanation.

Jaimeh · June 2019

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

First of all: your title is a spoiler in itself. I hadn't watched the stream live, but thanks to you I knew about Sai beforehands... don't be that person, you spoiled the surprise of seeing him in the trailer. Secondly, the story simply assumes the Vestige sacrificed the Prophet, and also during the Elsweyr quest the Vestige does ask Tharn about the other companions, to which he responds that they haven't kept in touch, but nothing to imply they are dead, so it's very likely that one of then returns, especially when something as major as dragons threatens Tamriel. As for those who chose Sai as the sacrifice, that will be immersion breaking, but perhaps the game will find a way to justify it and not just gloos over it.

@Jaimeh Indeed, but when ZOS says it and shows it in their own articles, I'd say that him being back is not a spoiler. Besides, from my title alone you don't know he is in the trailer too, so it'll still be somewhat surprising to see him, even if you read this post. It was not my intention to spoil anything, which is why I didn't name the thread "how is Sai Sahan alive?" or "Why is Sai in the trailer?" I was trying my best to come up with something that doesn't give too much away but also explains the purpose of the thread. All we know right now is that he is back and that he -spoiler- possibly died in the main quest. That's what the spoiler in the title is meant for. Personally, seeing Sai in the trailer immediately made me think of that question and I felt like it would have been better without him being there as long as we don't have the justification/explanation.

Fair enough, I haven't read the articles so my first heads up was this topic, and I would have preferred it to be the trailer.

Also, if the game makes an effort to justify his presence for those who chose Sai (though I think it's more likely the story will assume everyone chose the Prophet), it might be an alteration in the dialogue, such that Sai says the Prophet went ahead and sacrificed himself, or something like that. I've only chose the Prophet so not sure how the story is followed up if you chose otherwise, so don't know if it'd make sense for Sai to say things happened differently without the Vestige's knowing.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · June 2019

SantieClaws wrote: »

Perhaps it's Mannimarco that brings him back somehow … for some nasty reason.

So he's not the Sai we knew …

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

But...Mannimarco is also dead...true it is that he got taken by Molag Bal to be tortured and said khajiit was able to choose either to release or ignore him to suffer...this one choose to release him and he said this one will regret it...guess it makes sense that some weird spin-off...that still doesnt explain how can Mannimarco resurrect something that had been deleted from the known plane of existence...at best maybe some Aedra could bring him back...Meridia perhaps?

k9mouse · June 2019

The 2nd Era (the time when ESO takes place, before ANY TES single player games) is one HUGE dragon break. So there is no time line, because time itself is broken....

Druid40 · June 2019

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Druid40 wrote: »

OK, real talk, why would ANYONE sacrifice ANY companion other than Varen? I would understand if Abnur was a choice, but he was not.

While I didn't sacrifice Sai myself, I could see someone deciding that stuffing the Amulet of Kings in a tomb when we're trying to hide it from a powerful necromancer was an execution-worthy offense.

Literally no one knew where it was but him though.

Ratzkifal · June 2019

k9mouse wrote: »

The 2nd Era (the time when ESO takes place, before ANY TES single player games) is one HUGE dragon break. So there is no time line, because time itself is broken....

I don't think that is true. You might have that confused with the "Middle Dawn", the 1008 years of Dragon Break. That happened in the 1st era and ended before the second era started. We are now in the Interregnum, where there were lots of insignificant Emperors being crowned all the time and none managed to bring lasting change until Tiber Septim comes in and starts the 3rd era.

Ilsabet · June 2019

The writers aren't stupid enough to do something like this without considering how to make it work and giving some explanation for the people who sacrificed Sai. It might be a cheesy explanation, and it might only be addressed in a bit of dialogue and then never mentioned again, but they're not going to just throw a major plot inconsistency out there without coming up with some way to justify it. The winky face on Twitter just tells me that they're being coy about their cleverness.

With that all said, I am quite interested to see what their clever explanation is.

Dragonnord · June 2019

Necromancy.

RaddlemanNumber7 · June 2019

I always wondered about that great big crescent moon he has screwed into his forehead, and the star symbol he cut into his own chest. Well, now we know. He's a daedra worshipper. Azura fixed it for him.

Tan9oSuccka · June 2019

I always choose Sai.

“Snow Lily”. Booooo

VaranisArano · June 2019

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Perhaps it's Mannimarco that brings him back somehow … for some nasty reason.

So he's not the Sai we knew …

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

But...Mannimarco is also dead...true it is that he got taken by Molag Bal to be tortured and said khajiit was able to choose either to release or ignore him to suffer...this one choose to release him and he said this one will regret it...guess it makes sense that some weird spin-off...that still doesnt explain how can Mannimarco resurrect something that had been deleted from the known plane of existence...at best maybe some Aedra could bring him back...Meridia perhaps?

Mannimarco is not dead. We'll, he's kind of more like an undead Lich right now, but wither way he escapes from Molag Bal's prison.

He'll go on to have a fight with Vanus Galerion's Order of the Lamp at some point, but he'll remain in a state of acrive undeadness until Daggerfall, whereupon the Dragonbreak determines what happened to him. While you get to kill him in Oblivion (fan theories abound) the Necromancer's moon is still around.

BlueRaven · June 2019

Shaie wrote: »

HorrorShow wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You can't play in whatever order AND have it make sense. The AD storyline is the prime example.

I assume that the new timeline id you want everything to make sense is:
1. Start Main Quest up to rescuing Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan
2. DC questline up to Alikr Desert, then Wrathstone Dungeons
3. Elsweyr Prologue
4. Elsweyr
5. Finish up Main Quest

Have not been to Elsweyr yet. So if it takes place prior to end of main quest does it have dolmens?

Nope. No new zones have dolmens, only the zones present at launch. That storyline ends the need for dolmens. Vvardenfell doesn't actually even have a substitute for them. Summerset has geysers & Elsweyr has dragons.

That is mostly true, there is an "unfinished" dolmen in Wrothgar though.

Matthew_Galvanus · June 2019

im pretty sure that canonically, the prophet is the one who gets sacrificed. he is the most logical choice in any event because he dies shortly after the main game anyways

xan4silkb14_ESO · June 2019

heaven13 wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

Considering that the anniversary event hyped up the major players of the main quest, perhaps Sai is replaced by Lyris if you sacrificed Sai.

Lyris doesn't have a celebrity voice actor and isn't canonically dead like the Prophet, so it's possible she could return.

Lol what? Lyris's voice actress is Jennifer Hale.

Jennifer Hale is primarily a voice actor. I associate "celeberity voice actor" as one who does film/tv and then later their name is used to hype up animated film/tv or video games. I wouldn't think of Kevin Michael Richardson as a "celebrity voice actor" either. I believe there should be more work for professional voice actors like Jennifer Hale and Kevin Richardson and less "celebrity voice actor" work.

Night_Wolf2112 · June 2019

The Amulet of Kings actually took away Sai's stealth and replaced it with detection so naturally, we can all find him again.

Acrolas · June 2019

k9mouse wrote: »

The 2nd Era (the time when ESO takes place, before ANY TES single player games) is one HUGE dragon break. So there is no time line, because time itself is broken....

Dragon breaks are so twenty years ago. We're living in a media era with Time Heists and Jeremy Bearimy and Luke Skywalker saying, "No one's ever really gone."

- And Three-Eye Ravens shut up bran

bluebird · June 2019

Yeah it made me a bit confused too. Bringing dragons back to Tamriel is one thing, sure they didn't die off, sure, they were just hiding... but I'm pretty sure I killed exactly this one Redguard swordmaster in a very specific ritual that called for his annihilation so I'm a bit frustrated that he's back to normal now.

MagicalLija · June 2019

Varen's death is lore. There was no need for an option there, Lyris and Sai are both alive as well as Abnur

Hallothiel · June 2019

Ok, this has got me wondering what happens then if you do Summerset before Morrowind? (Never done it as am far too sad as like to at least TRY to have narrative cohesion). How does that work?!

Jaraal · June 2019

Night_Wolf2112 wrote: »

The Amulet of Kings actually took away Sai's stealth and replaced it with detection so naturally, we can all find him again.

Akatosh will somehow take us back in time to before Sahan was sacrificed, and before Bosmer were stealthy. Which would mean Sai is thousands of years old!

Makes perfect sense now!

Acrolas · June 2019

Hallothiel wrote: »

Ok, this has got me wondering what happens then if you do Summerset before Morrowind? (Never done it as am far too sad as like to at least TRY to have narrative cohesion). How does that work?!

Summerset first is one of the more ideal situations, as you'll meet Darien who will tell you that Meridia told him that time works differently in Oblivion.

"What's happened to me hasn't happened to you yet."

I did Clockwork City before Morrowind. I did Cadwell's Silver backward from Reaper's to Auridon. I've skipped straight to Trollhetta every time on my Pact characters. There's a narrative cohesion but you're free to bend and break it however you want in pursuit of your own enjoyment of the game and its activities.

Amanuensis · June 2019

Maybe it was just some Redguard roidhead who was able to collect all the Sai Sahan pieces during the Anniversary Event?

bluebird · June 2019

AndrejLeo wrote: »

Varen's death is lore. There was no need for an option there, Lyris and Sai are both alive as well as Abnur

Varen's death has nothing to do with Sai being alive. You could sacrifice Sai and Varen would still die later, that doesn't mean both Lyris and Sai are alive. And it's one thing to establish a canon for further continuity (e.g. the KOTOR games having a choice between a female and male player character, and then later the SWTOR mmo establishing said player character as canonically male) and to directly contradict your player choice (that you may have made like 5 minutes ago in the very same game) in a major storyline.

Hallothiel wrote: »

Ok, this has got me wondering what happens then if you do Summerset before Morrowind? (Never done it as am far too sad as like to at least TRY to have narrative cohesion). How does that work?!

The Summerset antagonist is a masked elf named Tundilwen and that's all she is as far as anybody is concerned. If you play it in the correct MW --> SS order, you know more about her origins of course, but if you don't then it really isn't an issue. The problem is that Sai's return makes no sense when you actually do play it in order (Main --> Elsweyr) and playing it out of order wouldn't make sense for Abnur's story so it's a really cheap returning character imo. And while it was believable for Morrowind-Summerset (wounds being healed, someone saving them in secret and sending them away), the sacrificed companion was consumed in a magical ritual that empowered a divine relic.